Barbaro euthanized............
RonBurgundy
Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Probably not sad to some, but very sad to me. I'm not a huge horse racing fan, but happened to have the TV on when he won the Florida Derby last year a few weeks before the KY Derby. It's just sad to see an animal suffer, and it's got to be devastating to his owners and especially the vet and his staff who were with him every day for the last 8 months.
Ron
Ron
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports.
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Buying Vintage, all sports.
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I've stated this before - in my firm opinion they simply way overtrained that horse and that caused the breakdown. I watched that tape again and again - it wasn't any bad step like the trainer claimed.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
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<< <i>Interesting you say that. I never watched the tape closely but he was so amped up prior to that race.......breaking through the gate, and before that he was biting at the horse beside him as they were approaching the gate. >>
The horse was trying to tell people something was wrong with him - but the trainer didn't want to listen...because of the money of course. When the horse broke through the gate before the start, I simply couldn't believe that they loaded him back in to race.
I've probably watched over 10,000 horse races, and I fully know that nobody can acurately predict a breakdown with a horse or if breaking through the gate has harmed the horse...but that horse had one of the most rigorous and brutal workout regimines I've ever seen given to a horse leading up th the Kentucky Derby and of course the trainer and owner got rewarded for that. And the extremely tough training continued between the two weeks of the Derby and the Preakness.
Now they now have no racehorse and no stud fees. Very VERY foolish and cost a great horse its life - an incident that could have been avoided if not for sheer greed.
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Bobafett, not a big deal but kinda tastless statement
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>lol it was meant to be tasteles.. (though it MIGHT be tasty to a dog) I'm sure Alpo no longer includes Horse meat. I am fairly certain that the BBQ beef at my favorite chinese food used to be Lassie! still, very delicious! >>
You are hilarious...please stop, I cant take it anymore.
<< <i>Can I interest you in some chinese food for lunch.
I'm sooooooooo glad you beat me to the punch because I didn't want to be the a-hole to say it first
<< <i>I never heard that Matz and Co. put him through such an intense workout scheme for the Triple Crown races. Where did you hear that?
Ron >>
Everywhere - when there was an open mind about it. Look at the DRF past performances and you'll see all you need to know if you know anything about the handicapping game. And if you understand horses and how overtraining is possible and occurs often, then you'll understand this event.
But you didn't read much about it in the press because they didn't want to spoil such a heartbreaking story - besides the media gets tremendous amounts of revenue from horse racing advertising and doesn't want to badmouth it, especially during Triple Crown races.
This guy Matz may have fooled a lot of people with his "love" for this horse, but he didn't fool me. When it comes to thoroughbred horse racing, the money is first and foremost, and everything else including a horse's welfare, is a distant second.
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<< <i> When it comes to thoroughbred horse racing, the money is first and foremost, and everything else including a horse's welfare, is a distant second. >>
I'm not really up on these things, but isn't the money issue the only reason that Barbaro was kept alive for so long after the inital break anyway? It was always my understanding that a broken leg for a horse was a death sentence. In Barbaro's case, I assumed that they were just trying to keep him alive long enough to get him out there in the field where he could be a stud and help the owner's make some more money off of him.
I don't know what's more sad: the suffering that the horse has gone through for the last 8 months or that he was allowed to suffer for the sake of profit.
BoobFoot72 - I hope your ignorance on this topic has been amusing to yourself. The next time you enjoy a meat snack, keep us posted with your culinary expertise and rating.
<< <i>
<< <i> When it comes to thoroughbred horse racing, the money is first and foremost, and everything else including a horse's welfare, is a distant second. >>
I'm not really up on these things, but isn't the money issue the only reason that Barbaro was kept alive for so long after the inital break anyway? It was always my understanding that a broken leg for a horse was a death sentence. In Barbaro's case, I assumed that they were just trying to keep him alive long enough to get him out there in the field where he could be a stud and help the owner's make some more money off of him.
I don't know what's more sad: the suffering that the horse has gone through for the last 8 months or that he was allowed to suffer for the sake of profit. >>
Exactly right - Barbaro of course wasn't anyone's "pet" = he was kept alive for one reason and one reason only - his value at stud. A $5,000 claimer with the same injury would have been immediately euthanized on the track with that injury.
Hey, I know the "game" and ain't crying about it, but it used to sicken me to watch Matz pretend he had such a "love" for this horse - his love was for the money.
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<< <i>Horses are owned in this venue basis their revenue and/or stud value. Professionals operate in this arena and invest significant money in it. The welfare of the horse is always of the utmost importance. Only, and only when a horse is in significant distress, is it put to death. That's the way it goes.
BoobFoot72 - I hope your ignorance on this topic has been amusing to yourself. The next time you enjoy a meat snack, keep us posted with your culinary expertise and rating. >>
<<< The welfare of the horse is always of the utmost importance >>>
You had it going right up until here. Let me tell you, I knew some thoroughbred horse trainers, and I know how they operate and what they do...the welfare of the horse is a distant second to the money, and I mean a distant second.
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You had it going right up until here. Let me tell you, I knew some thoroughbred horse trainers, and I know how they operate and what they do...the welfare of the horse is a distant second to the money, and I mean a distant second.
Those two are not mutually exclusive though. It does no good for anyone if the horse is not well or otherwise mishandled. A smart trainer realizes that a horse is worth much more after he's retired from racing, and it's in the owner's best interest to keep the horse healthy and happy. I realize there is a certain degree of greed in the racing game (there's greed everywhere in every aspect of business) but the portrait you paint of all parties involved in the ownership of the horse being ruthless greedmongers with no regard at all for the horses and just not caring at all about the animals is a little extreme, IMO. The concern and emotion for Barbaro by his jockey was sincere.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i><<< The welfare of the horse is always of the utmost importance >>>
You had it going right up until here. Let me tell you, I knew some thoroughbred horse trainers, and I know how they operate and what they do...the welfare of the horse is a distant second to the money, and I mean a distant second.
Those two are not mutually exclusive though. It does no good for anyone if the horse is not well or otherwise mishandled. A smart trainer realizes that a horse is worth much more after he's retired from racing, and it's in the owner's best interest to keep the horse healthy and happy. I realize there is a certain degree of greed in the racing game (there's greed everywhere in every aspect of business) but the portrait you paint of all parties involved in the ownership of the horse being ruthless greedmongers with no regard at all for the horses and just not caring at all about the animals is a little extreme, IMO. The concern and emotion for Barbaro by his jockey was sincere. >>
"Extreme"? - you clearly don't understand the business my friend. Yes that was nice of Prado to visit Barbaro once in awhile - but that was the jockey, not the trainer. Jockeys generally have no financial interest in the horses they ride, other than staying on the good side of the trainers so they can get as many good mounts as possible. Prado does seem like a nice guy, but he is a multimillionaire jockey who can afford to be nice.
Most trainers eek out a living and do whatever is possible to try to get a horse to win. Read that again..."whatever is possible" to get a horse to win. And sometimes, more than you might think, trainers do things to horses to get them to lose, so that they can cash a bet on them in a future race. One way is real simple - overfeeding a horse before a race...how would you feel running full speed when you just finished up a Chinese food buffet? You wouldn't feel like running would you? The picture getting a little clearer now?
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Joe
I realize you've been burned badly gambling in the past and it's obvious by every one of your posts in relation to that topic what your personal feelings are about the gambling game and wagering in general, but I personally think you let your bias cloud your perspective when it comes to topics like these. I'm sure there is a certain degree of "fixing" going on in horse racing just like any other sport or business endeavor, but I don't think it's nearly as widespread as you make it seem, especially when it comes to a stakes horse like Barbaro.
I agree with Joe on this one, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. And leave it at that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Most trainers eek out a living and do whatever is possible to try to get a horse to win. Read that again..."whatever is possible" to get a horse to win. And sometimes, more than you might think, trainers do things to horses to get them to lose, so that they can cash a bet on them in a future race. One way is real simple - overfeeding a horse before a race...how would you feel running full speed when you just finished up a Chinese food buffet? You wouldn't feel like running would you? The picture getting a little clearer now?
I realize you've been burned badly gambling in the past and it's obvious by every one of your posts in relation to that topic what your personal feelings are about the gambling game and wagering in general, but I personally think you let your bias cloud your perspective when it comes to topics like these. I'm sure there is a certain degree of "fixing" going on in horse racing just like any other sport or business endeavor, but I don't think it's nearly as widespread as you make it seem, especially when it comes to a stakes horse like Barbaro.
I agree with Joe on this one, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. And leave it at that. >>
LOL - this isn't even my opinion on this...these are facts...and well documented facts. I felt the exact same way about this when I was gambling, and gambling big on racehorses also. Frankly my friend it's you who have the bias because you want to defend your "love" of gambling.
And did I say stakes races involving Barbero were fixed? Come on now...you're starting to sound like Joe...there's too much money involved in big time horse racing for it to be fixed...big time racing is clean.
Let me give you a quick illustration that even Joe should understand.
It costs approximately $2-3K per month to keep a racehorse at the track, sometimes a bit higher or lower depending on the racetrack including vet fees, etc. This means that a horse has to earn $24-36K per year just to break even on the horse. Next time you're at the track if you ever go, take a look at the program from many of those harness racetracks - you'll find the vast majority of those horses earn less, and usually a lot less than the stated figure. The only way to make money on these horses is through shenanigans.
You should study up on a subject before commenting on something you know nothing about. And as usual Joe adds nothing to the conversation other that a quick "Henny Youngman" type comment. But Henny Youngman was a lot funnier than Joe. LOL
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LOL, I have no "love" of gambling. I merely disagreed with these well known "facts" of yours, plain and simple. (You even agreed with my point which was that stakes racing is clean.) But you keep yammering on anyway, even after I stated that we'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that. It's obvious that you have great difficulty accepting the opinions of others, so there's little point in engaging you any further.
BTW, sounding like a pompous blowhard when you state your opinion makes you seem like that mini cooper guy who used to post here all too often, no offense.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Frankly my friend it's you who have the bias because you want to defend your "love" of gambling.
LOL, I have no "love" of gambling. I merely disagreed with these well known "facts" of yours, plain and simple. (You even agreed with my point which was that stakes racing is clean.) But you keep yammering on anyway, even after I stated that we'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that. It's obvious that you have great difficulty accepting the opinions of others, so there's little point in engaging you any further.
BTW, sounding like a pompous blowhard when you state your opinion makes you seem like that mini cooper guy who used to post here all too often, no offense.
Yea...and who was one of those who constantly got in arguments with that mini-cooper guy? Yes, you were one - there were many others of course but you were one of the regulars arguing with Axtell all the time. Case closed.
But I've got no real problem with you or Joe. I really don't and you can think whatever you want of me...I couldn't care less. I'm gonna keep posting the way I like - you'll live with it.
Steve
Right on, Steve!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>But I've got no real problem with you or Joe. I really don't and you can think whatever you want of me...I couldn't care less. I'm gonna keep posting the way I like - you'll live with it.
Right on, Steve! >>
Yea brother!
If the possibility of stud fees weren't in Barbaro's future there is NO question he would have been put down immediately upon suffering the injury. The track I go to has allowance races that rarely get to $10,000 and most races are $3,000 claimers. Any horse that gets a broken leg here is history. I have no doubt that some or most of the races are fixed at the lower level races as has been mentioned previously by stevek.
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<< <i>I've been to Fairmount Park in Collinsville, IL a LOT and probably have seen over 2,500 live races. One of the worst broken legs on a horse I ever saw was on a horse coming down the stretch probably 150-200 yards from the finish line. Horse tried to get up and almost snapped his leg completely off when he put weight on it. The jockey was trying to settle him down while waiting for the ambulance to come euthanize him.
If the possibility of stud fees weren't in Barbaro's future there is NO question he would have been put down immediately upon suffering the injury. The track I go to has allowance races that rarely get to $10,000 and most races are $3,000 claimers. Any horse that gets a broken leg here is history. I have no doubt that some or most of the races are fixed at the lower level races as has been mentioned previously by stevek. >>
I used to bet Fairmount Park a lot because they were simulcasting it at the track I used to frequent, and of course it's night thoroughbred racing and there aren't too many thoroughbred tracks that race at night. I would bet harness a little bit, but my main interest was the flats. You sound like a handicapper so you may know what I'm talking about - at tracks like Fairmount Park...you actually had to try to handicap the cheating. LOL
Some trainers, it just seemed "every time" if their horse was 3-5 or less, that horse would not win...of course the 3-5 in those cases was the public's money, not the stable's money. Yes, I'd throw out that 3-5 shot and pick a seemingly nice value 4-1 horse, but it seemed like the other 4-1 horse in the race would always win. LOL
It seemed like almost every morning line 10-1 shot horse that lost by 15 lengths in its last start, and then got bet down to even money, used to win at Fairmount, except when I would bet on them. LOL
True story - at Fairmount I once had a horse leading easily by about 5 lengths in mid stretch and drawing out, and the dam thing fell over the inside rail and of course was out of the race, placed last. I've seen that happen a few times at Fairmount.
But it wasn't all bad for me at Fairmount - I hit one of my nicest trifectas ever there "handicapping the cheating" - put about fifty dollars into some trifecta combos longshots on top with the favorites third. Caught one with a 30-1 shot on top, another 30-1, and the favorite around 2-1 ran third. Paid over 9K and I had it for a buck - the drinks were on me after that race.
Steve
I would be willing to bet that Barbaro shot more sperm in the last 8 months than he has in his entire life.
....do Horses have "fluffers" to ahem, "Help" with this delicate process... Watch out, he's gonna blow!
These animals are like cows and chickens.
They're just commodities. We breed them into existance.
We make them be on this Earth because we can use them for food or entertainment.
As an EX-racetrack sicko, my motto was always :
"Who cares if the race is fixed? Maybe I'm betting on the horse it was fixed for."
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>As feared, but I guess expected, the side of humans that makes me wonder about the direction of the species has appeared on this thread. >>
Ron : If you're referring to my post,
I am not making any moral judgement on how things are ... just stating how things are.
My wife is a nearly full-time volunteer at our local Humane Society.
We take 'overflow from the shelter' animals into our home, and are generally regarded as "kookie animal lovers."
I also worked a few years on a cattle ranch when I was in college.
We grew them to be food for humans. That's why they're here and it's all they're really good for.
Some of you city boys really need to broaden your outlooks ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
With nothing to do, I was gonna do a thread on conspiracy theories involving the exploitation of chicken racing, but I didn't want to upset Joe or Grote15.
On the contrary, Steve, I'd look forward to such a topic you can speak with authority on!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Hey, we're probably just on edge because football season is about to end.
<< <i>
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
What I was referring to were multiple posts referring to Barbaro "shooting out sperm" and "greed" and "I'm more concerned about Iraq", blah blah blah. Fine if you don't care - absolutely fine - but callous comments like indicate an attitude that explains why far too many animals are treated like disposable objects in this country. And lest anyone cast me as some wacky liberal, I'm a conservative's conservative but I'll go toe to toe with anyone who suggests the U.S. is some great benevolent caretaker of animals. We're far from it.
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Let me say that I am a HUGE animal lover; however, not a PETA supporter.
Horse owners are in the racing business for money, not tending to horses. While some may develop an emotional attachment to their investment, a majority only care about the bottom line.
I'll share a story of the last time I attended a dog race. Some employees were walking around the concourse with greyhounds and encouraging their adoption program. I leaned over to pet one of them and noticed a bunch of notches on his tail. Puzzled, I asked what that was and was told from the starting gate closing on their tail. I felt sick to my stomach and felt even worse for the dog.
On the last race, we ventured outside to watch. I could hear the dogs yelping and at that point, I made a promise to myself.. I will never, ever go to another race track again. I won't condone others that do but personally, not a chance in hel.