Help with coin ID, please

razzle

I apologize in advance for the poor pic. There's no date on this, and I can't make sense of one of the letters ( II ). Is it currency or some kind of worthless token?
Thanks for the opportunity to post. It's my first on this board. I just been going through some foreign stuff that's been sitting here for many years.

raz

razzle

Oops, forgot the pics.

[/IMG][/IMG]

farthing

Photo:

razzle

Yes, thank you. I tried again.

lordmarcovan

That coin is from... The United States of America.

Assuming it is genuine (which I would not assume without proper authentication), you have yourself a rare and valuable piece, there.

It is a privately-issued one-dollar gold piece struck in western North Carolina, in Rutherford County. This is one of the earliest US territorial/private issue coins. Prior to the discovery of gold in California in 1849, most of the nation's gold supply came from north Georgia and western North Carolina, including the bullion that was struck into early Federal coinage.

My uncle just purchased a real Bechtler in a PCGS slab, I believe (not sure of the denomination but it may have also been a gold dollar). It had a pricetag in the low four figures. Michael S. ("Aethelred" on the forum) works in the western NC coin shop that sold it to my uncle and might have more particulars. I haven't gotten to see it yet. Since they are from the Asheville area, just west of Rutherford county where those coins were originally struck, you can imagine how interesting such a coin must be to folks from Western NC.

Christopher Bechtler

August Bechtler

There are probably numerous copies of these so the odds are you have a fake Bechtler. I cannot tell from the pics, obviously.

However... if it is real... well, sir, you have just vaulted yourself into the Lucky Cherrypick Hall Of Fame!

These coins are listed in the "Red Book" of US coins.

Get that thing authenticated. If you just cherrypicked a real Bechtler from a bulk lot of world coins, you'll become a forum legend.

razzle

Lordmarcovan,

That was a nice post to wake up to! Thanks to all for suffering through the awful photos. I've no idea of this coin's authenticity, but following your lead, it appears identical to the one pictured on the site you gave, and, in the Redbook. This one might make VF if it's real. I regret to say it hasn't been very well treated. It was in a large bag of foreign coins I purchased about 10 years ago along with a bunch of Merc dimes. It has just been sitting here in the mix.

I've got some other coins I want to submit to PCGS, so I'll send this along. Are there any "home" tests one can do to rule out other metals to further indicate it's likelihood of being gold?

Anyway, I've enjoyed your threads/replies on the other forum, including your limerick, and now have personal reason to directly thank you, whether it's gold or not.

raz

lordmarcovan

<< <i>I regret to say it hasn't been very well treated. >>

Most of them weren't, in their own day.

I remember reading Sondley's history of Buncombe County, NC, and an anecdote of his that talked about how the mountain folk used to test the gold in these Bechtler pieces and others, by inserting the coin between a door and the doorframe, and bending it!

Sending it to PCGS is the thing to do, and I shall cross my fingers for you.

If it comes back as real, then I propose a celebratory giveaway from you over here on the Darkside!

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Are there any "home" tests one can do to rule out other metals to further indicate it's likelihood of being gold? >>

For heaven's sake, don't do the "door test"!


Here are my recommendations to you, before you even submit the piece to PCGS.

1. Get clearer pictures of the coin somehow.

2. Post said pictures on the US Coin Forum, under the title, "Help me attribute and authenticate a possible Bechtler gold dollar".

ajaan

<< <i>an anecdote of his that talked about how the mountain folk used to test the gold in these Bechtler pieces and others, by inserting the coin between a door and the doorframe, and bending it! >>


Sounds similar to how to crack a PCI slab.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Sounds similar to how to crack a PCI slab. >>



Y'know, subliminally, that might be where my brain got the idea for my chosen quickie crackout technique, now that you mention it.

lordmarcovan

These are a booger to attribute and authenticate, I would imagine, since the originals are so crude.

razzle

I'm off the hook for a "free offering" but mightily disappointed. Fred Weinberg and MrEureka were able to tell it isn't gold. I posted pics over there which were much better. I didn't realize I had to re-size them to a "web-blog" size before posting. Again, sorry for the blurs, thanks for the help, and I'll continue searching to get back on that hook.

raz

Aethelred

It is normal for these to have damage to the edge where a tool was used to pry them out of the die, looks like yours might have that. I would take that as a good sign.

razzle

Atheried,

I wondered about that. Thank you. The opinion I got from Fred Weinberg and MrEureka on the other board stated it didn't look like gold. Have you seen those pics? I may take it in to our local dealer for an opinion in hand.

raz

lordmarcovan

Here are pix of a complete set of Bechtler gold dollars, for comparison.

Aethelred

<< <i>Atheried,

I wondered about that. Thank you. The opinion I got from Fred Weinberg and MrEureka on the other board stated it didn't look like gold. Have you seen those pics? I may take it in to our local dealer for an opinion in hand.

raz >>



The only pics I have seen are those posted here, if you have better pics I'd like to see them.

razzle

Atheried,

Thank you for your interest. I didn't forget, I just couldn't get back to this until today.

raz

lordmarcovan

Those pix are something of an improvement.

What's the silvery-colored stuff below the star on the obverse?

Aside from my not knowing what that is, I see nothing that rings any alarm bells of mine.

It looks like it could be real. (Bear in mind my totally inexpert opinion on these counts for next to nothing.)

razzle

Robertson,

In short answer to your question about the "silvery" stuff, I don't know. If I had to guess, I'd say maybe base metal without any gold plating. I tried to improve the pix for this post. The incandescent lighting I use creates a yellow tint. In hand, the coin does not appear that yellow. Also, following opinions I received on the forum, I took it to the local dealer. He also opined it didn't look like gold. Through his glass he thought he could see the bubbles of casting, too. Do you know if ANACS or other TPG would give a confirmation? worth doing? Thanks for the input again and for asking.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>If I had to guess, I'd say maybe base metal without any gold plating. >>


Oh, well. Too bad. The silvery stuff being unplated base metal is what worried me. But otherwise, it looked pretty real, at least in pictures.

Of course the originals are crude and primitive and I have zero experience in these.

However, look at the second R and the F in "RUTHERF." There appears to be gold on the letters, but not in the fields surrounding the letter. If gold plating were to come off, wouldn't it come off the high points first? I mean, wouldn't it be the other way around? (Silvery base metal showing on the letter, rather than the field?)

If it's cast, that's not a good sign, obviously.

Still, getting it checked out by ANACS or a major TPG company might be worthwhile.

I wish I could look at this thing in person. Not that I'd necessarily know what to look at, but it would be interesting to examine.

razzle

Robertson,

You are welcome to PM me. I've not done that before, but it should work?

raz

lordmarcovan

You need to go to your profile and activate PMs.

razzle

I thought I had, I should've double-checked. I just re-did it. Sorry.