Just got back a "no grade" from NGC

secondrepublic

They don't seem to have any idea of what this is... or do they?

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ajaan

Did they charge you the usual fee?

IstilllikeZARcoins

On which date was the coin received and on which date did you get the grades ?

I have a few coins that I am expecting from ATS and I am waiting for a while.

coinpictures

Is that their nebulous way of saying they think it's fake?

TwoKopeiki

<< <i>Is that their nebulous way of saying they think it's fake? >>

secondrepublic

I sent out the shipment on November 6 and I got this last coin back yesterday... so figure two and half months, but the other coins in the shipment arrived much sooner. This one took a lot longer to research.

In response to the question about grading fees -- no, there was no refund.

The coin is genuine, but the "problem" is that it's almost unique and it's not listed in any catalogs that I am aware of (yet--the main Polish catalog will apparently list this coin next year). That may have given NGC some hesitation about encapsulating it. I think NGC will tell you outright if they think it's a fake.

laurentyvan

"Uncertain Origin", is surely a way of saying I'm not sure where it came from- looks original but I have no book or catalog to back me up.

This is why individual expertise on a graders part is so important...

SYRACUSIAN

I think NGC will tell you outright if they think it's a fake.



Not necessarilly.


Will you submit it to PCGS who will probably send it out to Karl Stephens?

Stork

or ICG? They slab alot of stuff the others won't...not wooden nickels however .

Cathy

secondrepublic

Will you submit it to PCGS who will probably send it out to Karl Stephens?

I actually bought the coin from Stephens, so I think PCGS would eventually grade it without too much problem. However, he told me to wait until it shows up in the catalogs so they can reference it. In some ways I would rather have the coin in an NGC holder, which is more common for Polish coins, and which is why I sent it to them first.

1jester

I dont' want to hijack your thread, but I recently got 4 coins back from NGC, and I'm not completely satisfied with the results:

001 1987 PROBA POLAND KM-PR551 NICKEL 100Z MS 64

002 1989 PROBA POLAND ALUMINIUM BRONZE 10Z MS 63

003 1943 POLAND LODZ GHETTO KM-TN2 5M MS QUESTIONABLE AUTHEN

004 1943 POLAND LODZ GHETTO KM-TN3 10M MS QUESTIONABLE AUTHEN


The two Lodz ghetto coins are absolutely authentic. Doesn't NGC have any knowledge of this series? Aren't they supposed to be the experts? All coins listed were bought at WCN auctions.

The first coin was misattributed. There was a series of 500 nickel patterns of this coin, but my coin is copper-nickel, weighing 10.55 grams, bought at WCN auction 20, position 726. It has a reeded edge, while Parchimowicz (P-414) notes the nickel pattern has a smooth edge. My example is the only known example, to my understanding.

The second pattern, the 1989 10 zl piece also has an unknown mintage, and is listed as made of brass. I don't know exactly how NGC determined it's Aluminum-Bronze, but in any case it's not Nickel like the other 500 patterns of this type. The reference is Parchimowicz P-288b, coin bought from WCN auction 21, June 3, 2000, position 614.

Is there a way to determine if a coin is nickel, or copper-nickel? How was it determined by WCN that the coin is copper-nickel, and by NGC as nickel?

secondrepublic

Jester, I think NGC's knowledge of Polish material is fairly limited, even though 80% + of the slabbed Polish coins seem to be in NGC holders and very few in PCGS / ANACS.

Short of careful scientific testing, I don't know how NGC has any confidence that a coin is nickel as opposed to cupro-nickel, or vice-versa, etc.... though the edge variety should have been a strong hint that this is a different coin. Still, I don't know if these guys even know how to read Parchimowicz. I thought spelling everything out in the submission would help them, but I've found previously that it doesn't. Unfortunately, NGC doesn't release the grade until the coin is already in the mail on its way back to you.

1jester

Yes, I was pretty frustrated by that. As you've come to realize, it's not so easy having unique coins; much better to have some kind of common coin like a 1913 Buffalo.....

And there's no excuse for not being able to ID a Lodz ghetto coin.

TwoKopeiki

<< <i>Yes, I was pretty frustrated by that. As you've come to realize, it's not so easy having unique coins... >>



I have one that I want to send in, but not sure if NGC or PCGS would be able to authenticate it. It's a War of Independence double-counterstamped piece from Mexico, but using 1 Reale host, instead of a 2 Reales listed in Krause ... Do these services have someone from "outside" for authentication of difficult pieces? Like Don Canaparo, Joe Flores or Don Bailey for Mexican coinage ...

1jester

I find it quite ironic that the "professionals", aka TPG services, don't measure up when it comes to their market niche that they claim to be experts in.

But, as long as you have state quarters, Morgans and Saint Gaudens, you're more or less safe.

secondrepublic

PCGS uses Karl Stephens for the more difficult world coin authentication issues, and he is clearly the most knowledgeable professional who deals in Polish coins in the United States. Who NGC uses, I don't know. NGC seems to have become the default provider for Polish material even though their graders are less knowledgeable than Stephens / PCGS... maybe because NGC is a often little more loose than PCGS with the grades.

Writersblock

If the coin is actually nickel it will be strongly magnetic (will jump to the magnet just like a piece of iron would.). If it is coppernickel it will either be weakly magnetic or non-magnetic. Nickel loses its magnetic properties with as little as about 12% alloy of another metal. (Other than cobalt which is also magnetic)

1jester

Secondrepublic, any news on your coin?

Zoins

<< <i>Will you submit it to PCGS who will probably send it out to Karl Stephens?

I actually bought the coin from Stephens, so I think PCGS would eventually grade it without too much problem. However, he told me to wait until it shows up in the catalogs so they can reference it. In some ways I would rather have the coin in an NGC holder, which is more common for Polish coins, and which is why I sent it to them first. >>

Perhaps the advice from Stephens is applicable to NGC as well as PCGS?

secondrepublic

No news, just waiting to see if this coin ever shows up in the Polish catalogs. Of course, I'll need to get off my duff and actually buy - or borrow - the 2007 catalogs at some point.

Edited for spelling.