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Auction for 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4 - Fraudulent?

So I came across an auction for a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4 here:

1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4

I thought the auction looked familiar and so I checked my "ebay history" and saw that this card was previously up for auction here:

1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4

The first time around, it "sold" for $12,000.00 to cweatherall on 12.13.06. The seller (coastrebcoastreb) left positive feedback for cweatherall today on 1.23.07, over a month later. The current auction now has added a picture against a backdrop of the Colts defeating the Pats. The seller has pretty good feedback, but hasn't sold anything on ebay since 2.26.04.

Am I just being paranoid? Or does something here not seem right? In any case, the high bid last time was $12,000.00. I'm curious to see what it ends this time around. I'd love to hear your thoughts and comments.

/s/ JackWESQ



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Comments

  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jack

    At first I thought his FB wasn't that good - but he, actually, only has one neg which has kicked the crap out of his FB rating.

    My impression? The photo next to the newspaper and stuff - he's trying way too hard. Makes me wonder.



    << <i>NO PAYPAL on this one. >>

    That scares me too.

    It's kind of interesting - that someone is asking another to send them a boatload of money with no real assurance that the sender will receive something back?

    I wonder what happened to the other buyer from December?

    mike
    Mike
  • 1980scollector1980scollector Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭
    stone look close in the pic the guy has a GAI 3.5 52 as well
    ** Working on the following sets-2013 Spectra Football Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Autograph set, 2015 Spectra Football Illustrious Legends Autograph set, 2014-15 Hall of Fame Heroes autograph set. **
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,480 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You'd certainly think that for a card of this magnitude he'd at least explain that it's being relisted, if that's the case here. Previous buyer had a FB rating of 7. Did he not pay? Return the card?


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • cohocorpcohocorp Posts: 1,371 ✭✭
    wow, i guess we are all on the same page here. within 1 hour of him listing the card, i sent him a messege thru the ask a question feature stating..

    "this is the same card you sold on dec 13th and gave that buyer (cweatherall) positive feedback for the transaction. whats going on?? "


    i have not received a response from him yet, but it is still early. i will post here if he responds.

    pat
  • cohocorpcohocorp Posts: 1,371 ✭✭
    earlier today i saw a 1 day listing on another 1952 topps mantle sgc 70 which sold for $9626 by a guy with 43 feedback with a 97.8 % .

    that was waaay to risky for me. it smelled real bad.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    This is not a hijacking.

    Tomorrow, on CNBC, there will be a large segment
    regarding the "FACT" that EBAY is now considered the
    largest clearing-house of "STOLEN MERCHANDISE" on
    the planet.


    image
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • cohocorpcohocorp Posts: 1,371 ✭✭
    certainly makes sense as i think it is the largest venue of used items. what time does the segment air?
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "what time does the segment air? "

    ///////////////////

    I think it is part of the "Money Matters" segments.
    Hosted by the new chick, I think. They will be promoting
    it all morning, and will likley air it several times.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • MantlefanMantlefan Posts: 1,079 ✭✭
    Auction ended!!
    Frank

    Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
  • JackWESQJackWESQ Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
    Great...coastrebcoastreb, pulled the auction and poof, it's gone. I guess cohocorp won't be receiving a response to his/her inquiry. On the topic of the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle, I have a question for this educated group...somewhat rhetorical...somewhat serious...

    Can the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle EVER be a bad investment? Granted, the card will run you some serious coin, but if you can afford the $10,000.00+ for the card, what would prevent you from investing in the card? In my limited wisdom, the only problem I see is that with legitimate sales of the Mantle few and far between, it would probably would not be too difficult for the buyer to trace/determine what you paid for the card originally, and attempt to limit your profit. That notwithstanding, I don't really have $10,000.00+ (or rather the minimum $15,000.00 it would run me for a nice PSA 5), but if I did, I'd try to pick one up. Your thoughts?

    /s/ JackWESQ
    image
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    Yeah.... Well.... Uh......

    I'm pretty negative right now on cards, BUT not on THAT card.

    If someone currently has most ALL of their other investment-bases
    covered, I would say that the downside here is not much at all.

    It is not relevant as to whether or not someone knows what you
    paid in relation to most high-priced cards. If a buyer wants THAT
    card at the moment you have it for sale, he/she will not care what
    you paid for it. (Since some folks are not bright, they might even think
    that because you doubled your money in 18-months, they will be
    able to do the same thing.)

    Without a pretty bad world-event happening, the subject card is
    pretty safe to own.

    If you know trustworthy people, either a limited-partnership or a
    simple joint-venture would allow for the purchase of a VERY high-grade
    example. I suspect the nearest large money will come from the
    really nice ones.

    NONE OF THE ABOVE APPLIES, unless:

    ..........someone currently has most ALL of their other investment-bases covered,.....................

    image
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • cohocorpcohocorp Posts: 1,371 ✭✭
    an update on this situation...

    i have spoke with the seller about 5 times regarding this card/auction. it seems that the previous buyer in december backed out of the deal and compensated the seller. therefore the seller gave him positive feedback, i mentioned to him about this thread and i believe he is signing up and will probably explain this himself. ebay pulled the second auction since he stated cash as an option in the payment terms he said. he appears legit to me, although i am not bidding as i have 2 mantles already. he seemed very upfront to me.

    pat
  • The 52 mantle in my opinion is a great investment. In the last 3 years, the SMR has been way underpriced. In 2003, the SMR for a PSA 7 was $11,000. I laughed. Today's new SMR for a PSA 7 is $35,000+. But, personally, I think it's still undervalued. This is the one card in the hobby that will continue to climb (for the higher grade cards, 7-10). It is considered the most important post-war card in collecting. I would highly recommend this as an investment. By mid-summer, I'll bet it will be booking at $40,000+. Recently, a PSA 9 sold for $275,000.

    I like the idea of a joint venture/limited partnership. That way, a card that would otherwise be untouchable can be enjoyed by several people, and they can reap the financial benefits as well. The 52 Mick is the new "Honus Wagner."
  • I'll start by saying collect and buy cards for the enjoyment of it but in all reality we all love the "investment" idea of cards gaining value. The 1952 topps mantle is the most recognized post war card there is and as you stated it continues to rise in value. I will argue though that even the "lower grade" examples have enjoyed significant rises in value. I purchased/traded for a PSA 4 Summer of '05 with a sticker price on it of $8,500...today PSA 4 will run you $10,000 or more at times. Still a fantastic looking card in a "4" grade and people know this and will continue to drive the moderate market.
  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Frankly, if you can't inspect the card before giving someone something like 10K, you gotta be out of your mind unless it's a known entity such as an auction house or large dealer.

    If I win an auction for that kind of coin, if I have doubts about the seller, I'm gonna contact the seller and say I'll bring him cash, but I want to inspect the card first. I'll of course only bid if the seller is in reasonable driving distance considering the value of the auction. If the seller refuses and gives me a neg, so the f* what - like I care about an ebay neg rather than blowing 10K on a possible scam.

    And I don't feel like placing my 10K in the hands of some $8 an hour PayPal employee who is going to determine whether or not I should get my 10K back, when I open the signed for package and quickly see that the card is a fake.


    Steve
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>Frankly, if you can't inspect the card before giving someone something like 10K, you gotta be out of your mind unless it's a known entity such as an auction house or large dealer.

    If I win an auction for that kind of coin, if I have doubts about the seller, I'm gonna contact the seller and say I'll bring him cash, but I want to inspect the card first. I'll of course only bid if the seller is in reasonable driving distance considering the value of the auction. If the seller refuses and gives me a neg, so the f* what - like I care about an ebay neg rather than blowing 10K on a possible scam.

    And I don't feel like placing my 10K in the hands of some $8 an hour PayPal employee who is going to determine whether or not I should get my 10K back, when I open the signed for package and quickly see that the card is a fake.


    Steve >>




    This has got to be the Post of the Month. Well put, sensei! I've fallen prey to some awesome lapses in judgment before, but even I'm not dumb enough to let some stoner manning the keyboard at Paypal become the arbiter in a $10,000 sportscard scam.
  • JackWESQJackWESQ Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
    So the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4 is back up on ebay here:

    1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4

    I'm actually inclined to think the auction is NOT fradulent as he now accepts paypal. Still though, I do not feel 100% comfortable. Am I still being paranoid? This may be a good opportunity to pick up a nice PSA 4. Your thoughts?

    /s/ JackWESQ
    image
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    Q: "Am I still being paranoid? "

    A: If you fund a PayPal purchase with a credit card, you are protected.

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////


    Q: This may be a good opportunity to pick up a nice PSA 4. Your thoughts?

    A: I think the card is ugly. I have no doubt it is graded correctly, but he is
    calling what is likely essentially "a stain," mere "toning." When it comes
    time to sell such a card, eye-appeal can be critical. Some people "buy the
    card, not the holder/grade."

    This is the kind of card I would want to "steal." The price is now way out
    of the "steal" range.


    EDITED TO ADD: The $12K bid - the last one I looked at before posting the
    above - was retracted. The reserve is less than $12,001.00, but we do not
    know how much below. If the card could be had at about $4K+, it would be
    safe to suspect it could be marketed properly and sold at a decent profit.

    storm
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.


  • << <i>So I came across an auction for a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4 here:

    1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4

    I thought the auction looked familiar and so I checked my "ebay history" and saw that this card was previously up for auction here:

    1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4

    The first time around, it "sold" for $12,000.00 to cweatherall on 12.13.06. The seller (coastrebcoastreb) left positive feedback for cweatherall today on 1.23.07, over a month later. The current auction now has added a picture against a backdrop of the Colts defeating the Pats. The seller has pretty good feedback, but hasn't sold anything on ebay since 2.26.04.

    Am I just being paranoid? Or does something here not seem right? In any case, the high bid last time was $12,000.00. I'm curious to see what it ends this time around. I'd love to hear your thoughts and comments.

    /s/ JackWESQ >>



    It's gone -- It's fake.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    It is still up. 150085950246


    I suspect it might be a valid auction.

    My friend has a bid on it.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • JackWESQJackWESQ Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
    I took a closer look at the Mantle. In my non-expert and uneducated opinion, that is one beat up PSA 4. Granted the centering is good, but the corners (especially the upper left) are quite worn, even for a PSA 4. Moreover, can anyone advise as to what those "brown" spots are along the white border? In any case, I'd estimate the card will not reach the reserve and have a high bid of < $10,000.00.

    /s/ JackWESQ
    image
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "...can anyone advise as to what those "brown" spots are along the white border?"

    ////////////////////////////////


    Seller says:

    "The slightly toned patina assures collectors of its complete originality."

    (He has made sales-lemonade, out of the defect.)

    I say it is a nasty looking stain; or, worse, foxing.

    A PSA 4 can have such w/o a Q.

    NONE of that means the card is "no-good" or "worthless."
    It just means it is ugly, and has to be discounted for lack
    of eye-appeal.

    Some people will NEVER buy a paper collectible that has
    foxing on it, even a little bit. You can google "foxing" to
    read about its perils.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,582 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks as though he's reading this thread.


    Sold this card in December but the buyer was unable to complete the sale. He paid my e-bay listing expenses so i gave him a positive feedback. Hope those on cu forum can understand.

    Offered is a 1952 Topps Mantle. The Holy Grail of card collecting and it's graded 4 by PSA, the most trusted name in card grading. The centering is nearly perfect and frames the Yankee slugger perfectly. The 4 corners are consistent with the grade and the color is strong and bold. The slightly toned patina assures collectors of its complete originality. Major card shops list this PSA 4 graded '52 Mantle in the $15,000 range. Check Mile High Cards if you have any doubt. If you are a serious collector, then you realize this hobby jewel will only increase in value as the years go by. Don't miss out on owning a piece of history. Since this beauty is graded by PSA, no refunds are accepted. Please bid only if you are a serious buyer. i WILL ACCEPT PAY-PAL, cashiers check or money order. Payment is required within 7 days and it will be shipped USPS registered mail with insurance and delivery confirmation. Bid with confidence. Feel free to check my feed back and I will answer any questions. I have offered new pictures of the card to help any doubters that I have this card in my possession. Good luck bidding!



  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    I thought about offering the seller an opportunity to allow
    someone else to market his card for him, for a fee; but I
    did not want him to feel insulted.

    It is never a good thing to try to sell a high-end item under
    any less than the best circumstances.

    T&S has looked at the auction, and they believe it is ok.

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • JackWESQJackWESQ Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
    Hey! $10,000.00 on the spot and the reserve not met. If I were the seller, I'd list it at $0.01 with no reserve and let it fly!

    /s/ JackWESQ
    image
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