EAC net grading of coppers

toreador74

I understand the concept of EAC net grading and can see how it can apply to coins other than early coppers. However, I'm stuck on how the exact net grade is determined. How does one determine the number of points to deduct from the Sheldon 1-70 scale? As some examples - is minor rim ding 5 points? major scratch 10 points? I'm sure an answer begins with "It depends on the coin and its problems". Would appreciate any insight from others on the board and some examples from grading they have done so that I can understand this better. Thanks.

rhedden

Steps to EAC grading:

1) Grade it correctly by PCGS standards.

2) Subtract 10 points for each microscopic defect you find under a 30x loupe to obtain EAC Net grade.

3) Throw coin in garbage can if EAC Net grade is less than 0.

4) Moan about how PCGS and NGC consistently overgrade everything copper!


Seriously, the EAC grading is stricter than PCGS or NGC grading. Only about 5% to 10% of large cents in PCGS and NGC AU/MS holders get the same or higher EAC grade, and those are usually the choice ones with the gorgeous color and surfaces. One big difference is that "mint state" is really taken literally in EAC grading. Commercially graded MS-62 early coppers are usually nice AU's by strict standards, for example, and they are treated as AU coins by EAC graders. Another difference is that minor blemishes such as scattered pitting or light corrosion are treated somewhat more harshly in adjusting the EAC grade, especially if the coin is XF40 or higher. Lower grade coins, like VG-8, may be graded exactly the same by EAC and commercial standards. Finally, one guy's idea of EAC grading differs from the next. The good news in all of this is that serious copper collectors know a good coin when they see it, and the value of your copper collection does not depend on what anyone grades it!

toreador74

As I thought would be, EAC net grading is just a matter of collector/grader opinion then as long as you practice grading a lot of copper and are consistent in how you net the "defects". Interesting.

AuldFartte

The thing to remember about EAC grading is that it covers not only sharpness, but color, defects, "eye appeal", etc., and if a "market" graded coin at AU-55 would be graded EAC EF-40, BOTH coins would sell for the same money. EAC grading is a technical issue which doesn't decrease a coin's value. If you doubt that, check out grades in Jack Robinson's "CQR".

toreador74

Makes sense as it is the same coin - but with the example of the AU-55 being EAC-graded EF-40, what accounted for the 15 point "deduction"? And it's possible to have two AU-55 coins that could grade differently under EAC guidelines. Would they still be worth the same in the market? Or would the market not consider this? Not trying to be argumentative, but trying to understand how this works. Of course, it probably doesn't matter in the long run since all grading is subjective anyway.

Baley

EAC grades only matter when dealing with EAC people... and even then, the prices are the same as "the market"

heck, PCGS may call it AU55, EAC may call it EF40, and Baley may call it "rumplestiltskin" and who cares the name, if we all price it the same?

Coin Finder

I am a recent EAC member (4 years old) and I contine to struggle with EAC dealers and collectors calling PCGS inconsistant when I cannot get a consistant EAC grade on many of my 62 early coppers from three or even two EAC experts. ( a typical EAC response to this would be because they are not "choice") I cannot even get any consistancy out of a "choice" copper for EAC members as they differ on this as well.

Some EACers love bashing PCGS but they should look at their own standards first.

"Penny Prices" is not all that consistant with "CQR" in terms of pricing or grading. Heritage grading of EAC copper is not like either of them. Not one EAC member can tell me why a specific defect is worth 5 points and another 10 on a consistant basis with all other attributes like color, surface, strike and eye appeal being relatively equal.

AuldFartte

<< <i>I am a recent EAC member (4 years old) and I contine to struggle with EAC dealers and collectors calling PCGS inconsistant when I cannot get a consistant EAC grade on many of my 62 early coppers from three or even two EAC experts. ( a typical EAC response to this would be because they are not "choice") I cannot even get any consistancy out of a "choice" copper for EAC members as they differ on this as well.

Some EACers love bashing PCGS but they should look at their own standards first.

"Penny Prices" is not all that consistant with "CQR" in terms of pricing or grading. Heritage grading of EAC copper is not like either of them. Not one EAC member can tell me why a specific defect is worth 5 points and another 10 on a consistant basis with all other attributes like color, surface, strike and eye appeal being relatively equal. >>



Well said !!!

The PP vs. CQR inconsistencies are a prime example of grading being a strictly subjective art. I don't even try to assign (read: GUESS) EAC grades anymore.

mspur1

Reprinted with permission of William Eckberg from
EAC Region 8 Newsletter #532, December 23, 2006

In reference to the continuing discussion with respect to EAC versus slab grades: The coin market is unregulated; dealers can ask anything they want for any coin they want to sell, and they (and we) can grade them any way they want. PCGS and EAC grade by different standards. When EAC grades a coin MS63, they mean it is a strictly uncirculated coin with some Mint color remaining. (The grades MS63BN, 65BN, 67BN, etc., cannot exist by EAC standards, as each of these numerical grades requires original color.) When PCGS says a coin grades MS63, they don't mean that it is uncirculated at all; they mean they think it is worth what the slightly-better-than-average uncirculated coin of the variety generally brings in the marketplace. This is called "market grading". EAC grading is also a kind of market grading, but it uses very different (and much more complicated) standards and generally arrives at a very different net grade than the grading services. That said, the same coin will probably trade at the same price whether we call it an EAC VF20 average or an XGS (making up an acronym to avoid getting sued by anyone) EF45. The key is knowledge. We must all learn to understand the differences in grading standards. In the same way, we all have to learn that an MS65 graded by PCGS will price differently from an MS65 graded by "Fool's Grading Service", FGS (again to make up a name that suggests a "service" that is not the most reliable). People who pay EAC prices for a coin graded by XGS are no greater fools than they who pay PCGS prices for coins graded by FGS. Why do dealers try to get away with charging "EAC Prices" for "XGS Coins" or "PCGS Prices" for "FGS Coins"? They want to make as much money off each coin as they can. As a dealer/friend/EACer once told me at a Baltimore show, "99% of the dealers in this room will bury you up to your neck in a coin and then steal your shovel."

The bottom line in early copper, like in all other areas is: "buy the coin, not the slab", because there is no "Official Grade" for ANY coin. Even the best grading services frequently have coins cracked out and upgraded, and among knowledgeable persons in EAC there are honest differences of opinion on the grade/value of individual coins. We collectors are the final arbiters of the value of coins offered to us. If you don't think a coin offered is worth the asking price, negotiate or don't buy it. If people will just use some common sense and acquire some knowledge, there would no reason for all of the angst about the differences between EAC and PCGS grading.