Image of the new British grading company slab

nencoin

I apologize if someone has already posted an image. I figured some folks might be interested in seeing what the CGS UK slab looks like. In hand, it's fairly lightweight, but a pretty good design I think. The edge view of the coin is fantastic (not evident from the poor scan).

Chris

ajaan

Thanks Chris. Hasn't been posted before. Did NEN buy this one? Is it for sale?

ArgentumRex

I think it looks really good. Thanks, I had been wondering what it might look like. They don't have any pictures on their site, at least none that I culd find.

SYRACUSIAN

Chris, what do you think of their grading scale ? They graded this half penny as UNC 82, ie at the very low end (unc is 80-100), even though it looks like an MS64RED from this scan.


Also, their grading on bronze and copper coins doesn't provide any info about how red is the coin.

nencoin

It's pretty much a sample piece we got....not for sale. Re the grading, I can't really offer an opinion as this is the first piece I've seen. The grade of 82 does imply low-end Unc, but it should easily grade MS64 Red at PCGS or NGC.

We just banged it around a bit (actually, we agressively threw it on the floor a few times). The coin became dislodged from the three inner holders, although the coin is still secure and not floating around inside. The 'ridges' on the three inner holders perhaps should be a little deeper.

BS

Thanks for posting it. I was wondering what they look like.

ajaan

<< <i>actually, we agressively threw it on the floor a few times >>


You using the lordmarcovan method of cracking open a slab?

spinaker2000

<< <i>We just banged it around a bit (actually, we agressively threw it on the floor a few times). >>

drjules

Very interesting piece. I have to admit I am not in favour of the 100 point scale, but then again I can't grade to save my life

Dr J

drjules

And btw where do you submit coins to for grading?

Dr J

Cladiator

How viewable is the edge of the coin?

1jester

Thanks for sharing! The slab looks great.

I simply can't comprehend why they're introducing a completely unconventional grading system. Just what numismatics needs.

laurentyvan

I simply can't comprehend why they're introducing a completely unconventional grading system.

To differentiate themselves from other grading companies...

coinpictures

<< <i>To differentiate themselves from other grading companies... >>



Or to fail miserably...

Zoins

<< <i>Thanks for sharing! The slab looks great.

I simply can't comprehend why they're introducing a completely unconventional grading system. Just what numismatics needs. >>

CGS is a business and from a business perspective it makes a lot of sense:

(a) My understanding is that most European collectors don't use TPGs or the Sheldon Scale. Introducing a 100-based or 70-based system is just the same to their customers

(b) Europeans prefer systems that use multiples of 10 like the metric system. A 100 based system would probably make more sense to them than something seemingly arbitrary like 70 (or 12 inches to the foot).

(c) US TPGs do not have a European presence in terms of a local office to ship coins to. Do US TPGs go to European coin shows?

(d) Getting European customers comfortable with a 100-point scale will more easily "lock them in" to CGS and other European grading services vs sending business to the US

If your customers don't care which scale you use and if a 70-point scale gives your competitors an advantage (because they are already established), which would you choose when considering the viability of your business?

nencoin

<< <i>How viewable is the edge of the coin? >>



Completely viewable.

1jester

<< <i>

<< <i>Thanks for sharing! The slab looks great.

I simply can't comprehend why they're introducing a completely unconventional grading system. Just what numismatics needs. >>

CGS is a business and from a business perspective it makes a lot of sense:

(a) My understanding is that most European collectors don't use TPGs or the Sheldon Scale. Introducing a 100-based or 70-based system is just the same to their customers

(b) Europeans prefer systems that use multiples of 10 like the metric system. A 100 based system would probably make more sense to them than something seemingly arbitrary like 70 (or 12 inches to the foot).

(c) US TPGs do not have a European presence in terms of a local office to ship coins to. Do US TPGs go to European coin shows?

(d) Getting European customers comfortable with a 100-point scale will more easily "lock them in" to CGS and other European grading services vs sending business to the US

If your customers don't care which scale you use and if a 70-point scale gives your competitors an advantage (because they are already established), which would you choose when considering the viability of your business? >>



Point D is, admittedly, a strong argument for introducing the new system, though it ambitiously sets itself at odds with the rest of the numismatic world. Unfortunately, it's going to make it much more complicated and confusing for numismatics

ziggy29

<< <i>Thanks for sharing! The slab looks great.

I simply can't comprehend why they're introducing a completely unconventional grading system. Just what numismatics needs. >>

The thing is, they never really used the 70-point Sheldon scale in the UK. So to collectors there and in Europe, a 100 point scale is more "intuitive" and seems less arbitrary.

I hope the British don't use U.S. grading standards, either. What is "EF" in U.S. market grading is more like a VF in grading coins of the UK.

I don't want to see U.S. coinage move away from the 70-point scale, but I also don't want to see the rest of the world inflicted with it, either.

ziggy29

<< <i>Point D is, admittedly, a strong argument for introducing the new system, though it ambitiously sets itself at odds with the rest of the numismatic world. Unfortunately, it's going to make it much more complicated and confusing for numismatics >>

The rest of the numismatic world, or the numismatic market for U.S. coins? I don't think not adopting a 70-point scale turns "the world" on its head unless one believes that the U.S. coin market is that which the world revolves around.

1jester

Numismatists who have been using the 70-point scale to date will know have to become "fluent" in the new paradigm as well, which will complicate matters for them. The Sheldon scale is already in use worldwide, by virtue of the fact that people other than those in the US have been buying and collecting and dealing with US coins, and foreign coins graded by TPGs for at least 20 years. True, not too many people fit into this category, but I equate the introduction of this system in a similar fashion as if someone were to introduce a new car (to markets where people drive on the left side of the road), and put the steering wheel on the right side, or in the back, just to be different.

Cladiator

<< <i>

<< <i>How viewable is the edge of the coin? >>



Completely viewable. >>

WorldTypeSet

(b) Europeans prefer systems that use multiples of 10 like the metric system. A 100 based system would probably make more sense to them than something seemingly arbitrary like 70 (or 12 inches to the foot).

I've never understood this as a rational for 100 point grading. It's all arbitrary, whether it's 10 divisions, 70 divisions, 100 divisions, or 1000 divisions.

The 70 scale is actually a 15 point scale for circulated coins (P01, ?02, AG03, G04, G08, F12, F15, VF20, VF30, EF40, EF45, AU50, AU53, AU55, AU58) and an 11 point scale for Uncirculated (MS60 - MS70)


PS - I do like the slab, though

ziggy29

<< <i>I've never understood this as a rational for 100 point grading. It's all arbitrary, whether it's 10 divisions, 70 divisions, 100 divisions, or 1000 divisions. >>

It is arbitrary, but most of the world uses base ten numeric systems, so creating scales on powers of 10 is more intuitive for most people.

How often are you asked to rate something on a "1 through 7" scale compared to a "1 through 10" scale? That's just how people think -- in base ten.

MacCrimmon

<< <i>It's pretty much a sample piece we got....not for sale. Re the grading, I can't really offer an opinion as this is the first piece I've seen. The grade of 82 does imply low-end Unc, but it should easily grade MS64 Red at PCGS or NGC.

We just banged it around a bit (actually, we agressively threw it on the floor a few times). The coin became dislodged from the three inner holders, although the coin is still secure and not floating around inside. The 'ridges' on the three inner holders perhaps should be a little deeper. >>




I don't think they considered the NEN Monkey Test.


will know have to become "fluent" in the new paradigm as well, which will complicate matters for them.

Nonsense, just multiply your Sheldon grade by 1.43

bidask

I bought several gold coins in CGS slabs from London Coins at the recent NYINC show. One was graded EF 75, one was EF 78 and one was Unc 80. I covered the grades up on the slab and showed them to 3 well known foreign dealers and a rep from PCGS.

They all graded the coins MS 63 to 64.

I also had the experience Dimitri had of them not differentiating their Reds from RB and B on their high end graded coppers.

By the way their service is only for coins of England

ziggy29

<< <i> By the way their service is only for coins of England >>

Which is probably good, because as most people who collect both US and UK know, the grading standards are quite different. A British EF is often a US AU, and a British Fine can be as nice as a US choice VF. It would cause a lot of confusion to use established British grading standards on anything but British coins.

Ultimately -- ULTIMATELY, I stress -- it would be nice to have one uniform worldwide grading standard; the "Esperanto" of TPGs if you will. But I don't think the global coin market is ready for it.

291fifth

Do the slabs appear to be tamper-proof?

What would you call the grade if done on a 70 point scale?

Zoins

<< <i>I bought several gold coins in CGS slabs from London Coins at the recent NYINC show. One was graded EF 75, one was EF 78 and one was Unc 80. I covered the grades up on the slab and showed them to 3 well known foreign dealers and a rep from PCGS.

They all graded the coins MS 63 to 64. >>

Wow, I wonder if CGS is generally tighter than PCGS. If so, there could be opportunity cracking out CGS EFs and turning them into PCGS MSes.

This is also interesting in light of the lightside thread discussing "Hot Topic" Saints and how some PCGS MS Saints were graded AU by individuals. Will CGS end up carrying a higher premium than PCGS?

bidask

<< <i>

<< <i> By the way their service is only for coins of England >>

Which is probably good, because as most people who collect both US and UK know, the grading standards are quite different. A British EF is often a US AU, and a British Fine can be as nice as a US choice VF. It would cause a lot of confusion to use established British grading standards on anything but British coins.

Ultimately -- ULTIMATELY, I stress -- it would be nice to have one uniform worldwide grading standard; the "Esperanto" of TPGs if you will. But I don't think the global coin market is ready for it. >>

No grade inflation over there.

bidask

<< <i>

<< <i>I bought several gold coins in CGS slabs from London Coins at the recent NYINC show. One was graded EF 75, one was EF 78 and one was Unc 80. I covered the grades up on the slab and showed them to 3 well known foreign dealers and a rep from PCGS.

They all graded the coins MS 63 to 64. >>

Wow, I wonder if CGS is generally tighter than PCGS. If so, there could be opportunity cracking out CGS EFs and turning them into PCGS MSes.

This is also interesting in light of the lightside thread discussing "Hot Topic" Saints and how some PCGS MS Saints were graded AU by individuals. Will CGS end up carrying a higher premium than PCGS? >>

My experience is a small sample ( although I bought several nice silver CGS graded coins that I did not show).

I came away with the same thought, that is, either gradeflation has bogged down the entire US market to where no one sees that emperor has no clothes on, or, CGS is too tight.

Personally, I am not going to crackout these coins.

I'd rather see PCGS and NGC et al raise their standards.

I hope CGS continues to grade tight.

It will distinguish them.

Bottom line, as always, buy the coin not the slab.

AuldFartte

<< <i>The 70 scale is actually a 15 point scale for circulated coins (P01, ?02, AG03, G04, G08, F12, F15, VF20, VF30, EF40, EF45, AU50, AU53, AU55, AU58) and an 11 point scale for Uncirculated (MS60 - MS70) >>



Plus G06, VF25, VF35. I've even seen coins graded G05 and G07, although not in any slabs.