Interesting comments Boo - I always respect your candor and usually enjoy your viewpoints, even when I disagree with them.
I'd like to follow that +EV discussion on your website if you don't mind. Don't worry (LOL) I don't and won't post on poker forums...I've been invited to a number of times but my feeling is that's their terrain and I'd be like a trespasser.
I don't have your website link so post it here. Why not? Maybe somebody here will check it out. If somebody here is gonna gamble online anyway, might as well support a CU member while doing it, right? I'd rather see you get the affiliate commission money than some rich forum owner like Shulman at Cardplayer who doesn't need the money.
<< <i>Joe has been acting like a bit of a troll Steve >>
That's true, and it why I have not continued to post. I find it impossible to discuss this issue with you. Serious question: Have you considered a career in politics? You have all the basics down: Repeating talking points, "won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!" and citing misleading studies. I'm not trying to troll when I ask that, honestly.
<< <i>Joe has been acting like a bit of a troll Steve >>
That's true, and it why I have not continued to post. I find it impossible to discuss this issue with you. Serious question: Have you considered a career in politics? You have all the basics down: Repeating talking points, "won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!" and citing misleading studies. I'm not trying to troll when I ask that, honestly.
Joe >>
Joe, no disrespect but I remember a lot of my poker conversations with Boo, Brian and some others here...but I don't recall a single thing about anything you have stated regarding poker. So perhaps start making some better points and you'll get a better response? Frankly, the only thing right now I'm remembering about you is your troll-like behavior. If that's what you want then so be it.
The thing I enjoy about guys like Boo and Brian, is they bring new, interesting points to the table. Any parrot can regurgitate the same crap that's been printed in gambling books for the last thirty years - I've read all that garbage already. Who feels like discussing that if that's what you were stating, which maybe that's the reason I didn't remember it or ignored it.
There were half a dozen or so times we discussed poker in the old Open Forum. Those posts told me what I needed to know, but it took me a couple years to get sick enough of seeing you post the same things over and over that I mentioned it.
<< <i>Edit to add: Nobody I've talked to who requested an EFT AFTER the 15th of Jan. has received funds in their bank account yet, and nobody is sure why. Neteller is a publicly traded company, so I have a hard time believing that they're just going to up and run with my (our) dough, and apparently Canadian citizens are getting FedEx checks/ EFT's processed with zero hassles, so it could just be a question of their processer getting nervous after all the arrests. If I learn more I'll post it. Anyway, the 'party line' appears to be that it will take 6-8 weeks for checks to arrive, so it looks like the best case scenerio is that I'll get my money by my freaking birthday in mid March. Nice. >>
My initial problem was solved and I just requested money from my account via an eft.
I'm not sure why there would be a problem. I thought Neteller was similar to paypal??? There shouldn't be a problem with them transferring to and from a checking account, the problem would be accepting money from or transferring to an online gambling site.
I'll let you know if I receive my money in a few days.
BTW Boo, I just tried the final exam on your site, and got 9 out of 11 right.
<< <i>There were half a dozen or so times we discussed poker in the old Open Forum. Those posts told me what I needed to know, but it took me a couple years to get sick enough of seeing you post the same things over and over that I mentioned it.
Joe >>
Well yea...but many of my ideas are original and I know that...and I've been told that...it's not fresh to you anymore now, but fresh to someone hearing it for the first time.
Guaranteed you won't find my ideas about poker and gambling in many or any other books or articles. But I'm no genius here Joe - I'm no Thomas Edison or Ben Franklin capable of coming up with endless new ideas every post. My ideas are based on many years of gambling and looking at all the aspects of it from the point of view of needing to quit gambling. And frankly, it worked well for me.
But at this point Joe, it's obvious no matter what I say, you're gonna respond the way you want to respond, so I'll leave it at that.
I guess I wasn't being clear: You annoyed me right away, it just took me a while for the pile to get large enough and smelly enough for me to post about it. Anyway, I'm comfortable agreeing to disagree as well.
<< <i>I guess I wasn't being clear: You annoyed me right away, it just took me a while for the pile to get large enough and smelly enough for me to post about it. Anyway, I'm comfortable agreeing to disagree as well.
Joe >>
That's one of the best back-handed olive branch extentions I've ever seen
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>I guess I wasn't being clear: You annoyed me right away, it just took me a while for the pile to get large enough and smelly enough for me to post about it. Anyway, I'm comfortable agreeing to disagree as well.
Joe >>
Well here's a toast Joe...one annoying SOB to another.
Might've played the last hand of PSTARS from me, just don't feel comfortable keeping money on there knowing I can't have instant... I busted in the 162.00 buyin tourny tonite in 700 after making a awful play, although he almost laid it down due to me playing it like I Flopped a set... But if any of you guys ever go to commerce look me up. Usually in the 10/20 game wearing some kind of lebron shirt and a fitted hat
Offically busted my last 162 bucks and sent the last 300 to a buddy that I wanted to play. Disinstalled pstars and Full tilt as well as blocked neteller and all the poker sites on my broswer.. Good buy internet poker..
My bank account is no longer an option for deposits or withdrawals with bodog. And here I was going to wager one ten thousandth of my net worth on a game tomorrow.
Thank you 'Holier Than Thou Are', hypocrite, piles of steaming crap politicians for saving me from myself!
The fun of internet gambling has now offically been banned in America unless a cut of it can go into a cesspool so our elected officals can lick out their share!
Nothing personal Stevek, but your long-winded sermons within any thread where gambling is mentioned comes off as preachy and didactic for many of us more recreational wagerers, I'm sure. I realize you had a real big problem with gambling in your past (by your own admission), but to completely demonize it and stereotype it the way you do is akin to an alcoholic saying that anyone who likes to drink beer is on a slippery slope to ruin. Just my .02.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Nothing personal Stevek, but your long-winded sermons within any thread where gambling is mentioned comes off as preachy and didactic for many of us more recreational wagerers, I'm sure. I realize you had a real big problem with gambling in your past (by your own admission), but to completely demonize it and stereotype it the way you do is akin to an alcoholic saying that anyone who likes to drink beer is on a slippery slope to ruin. Just my .02. >>
FWIW I don't think steve's post reflect a holier than thou attitude towards gambling. He admits he was friends who gamble, and I haven't yet heard him say that adults shouldn't be allowed to bet if that's what they want to do.
He does think that no gambling game where the house takes a cut can be beaten in the long run, and he feels that I-net gambling sites prey on children. I know that he's wrong on the first point, though I'll concede that he may be on to something on the second point.... but overall I think most of steve's commentary on this subject hasn't been inflammatory or insulting.
< Nothing personal Stevek, but your long-winded sermons within any thread where gambling is mentioned comes off as preachy and didactic for many of us more recreational wagerers, I'm sure. I realize you had a real big problem with gambling in your past (by your own admission), but to completely demonize it and stereotype it the way you do is akin to an alcoholic saying that anyone who likes to drink beer is on a slippery slope to ruin. Just my .02. >>
FWIW I don't think steve's post reflect a holier than thou attitude towards gambling. He admits he was friends who gamble, and I haven't yet heard him say that adults shouldn't be allowed to bet if that's what they want to do.
He does think that no gambling game where the house takes a cut can be beaten in the long run, and he feels that I-net gambling sites prey on children. I know that he's wrong on the first point, though I'll concede that he may be on to something on the second point.... but overall I think most of steve's commentary on this subject hasn't been inflammatory or insulting.
I don't think his commentary has been insulting or inflammatory by any means--maybe it's just me, but I just don't find the topic of on-line gambling that significant to sports talk in general, but maybe that's because I'm not into it hard-core. Frankly, I'm surprised this thread has generated as many responses as it has, though most of those responses are by only a couple of members.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Let's just do away with everyone's freedoms in the name of 'protecting the children'. We'll see just how big a generation of overly protected, simpleton, namby pambys we can raise.
Maybe America can eventually become a French province if we get wimpy enough ... yeah, that's the ticket!
<< <i>Nothing personal Stevek, but your long-winded sermons within any thread where gambling is mentioned comes off as preachy and didactic for many of us more recreational wagerers, I'm sure. I realize you had a real big problem with gambling in your past (by your own admission), but to completely demonize it and stereotype it the way you do is akin to an alcoholic saying that anyone who likes to drink beer is on a slippery slope to ruin. Just my .02. >>
I've had a lot of posts here at CU as you can see by the post count, but to my recollection I believe that I've only ever started one thread about gambling, and that was when that law was being passed a few months ago regarding restriction of funds. So every other comment I've made about gambling has been in response to other's comments.
CU does seem to allow an occasional OT post as long as the OT posts don't get out of hand. Actually, since PSA has authenticated poker chip autographs, discussions regarding gambling and poker isn't necessarily that OT.
I'm not ever going to apologize for trying to warn people about the dangers involved with gambling. Sometimes I'm going to be proactive about that rather than reactive. When I was getting clobbered from gambling, I wish that someone would have grabbed me by the arm and told me about the realities and consequences of gambling on a personal level. I can't turn back the hands of time, and hypotheticals generally bore me - but perhaps I wouldn't have listened to that person but maybe that bug in my ear would have helped.
Please don't compare gambling to drinking. It's not the same thing. The addictive characterisics could be the same for some people but it's not the same in this main aspect - No alcoholic could possibly believe the next drink could be a good thing for them, whereby with an addicted gambler there is always the hope that next bet could hit a jackpot, start a gambling hot streak or maybe just pay the rent. That's one thing that makes gambling addiction such a tough addiction.
I've never knocked anybody for participating in private small stakes poker games in their house, being involved in the office March Madness pool, and some other types of gambling - although these types of gambling could be problematic as well. I've actually personally witnessed people getting financially ruined in one night in private poker games, but of course big stakes were involved.
Frankly if you knew me better, you would know that I'm more anti-"foolish" gambling than anti-gambling overall. In a nutshell, trying to make money gambling against gambling industry offered games is foolish - plain and simple and that's that. In my work, I technically "gamble" all the time - do I take a chance on hiring this applicant? - thousands of dollars could be lost if the employee doesn't work out. Should 5K be spent on a direct marketing campaign or some other type of advertising, or spent elsewhere for promotion? You can call that gambling or risk taking but it's of course done in a manner whereby there is a good chance to win. There are no good chances to win at gambling industry offered games and that includes online poker. Even the most ardent supporter of online poker would still admit that the vast majority of players lose money, and sometimes big money.
I am also anti-scammer. My strong belief is that much gambling offered out there today, especially online poker, is going to go down in history as one of the biggest scams of this early 21st century. Here is a fact - there has never been one, count it, ONE single properly documented long term winner at online poker verified by a reputable independent auditing company. Not one! That fact alone should tell you that online poker is a sucker's game.
What's interesting is that hardly anybody here ever railed on me before about this. But now that you see your online gambling coming to an end you're barking at me. You can blame me or blame Bill Frist or anybody else you want, but if you look at the facts then it's clear to me that considering how much gambling is legal in the US, that these online operators through their sheer greed brought this upon themselves, especially with their arrogance.
Think their arrogance had nothing to do with it? Think again. A good example is the mob. When they kept their mouths shut and did what they did privately, for the most part they were left alone unless of course when their violence became public. It was when some of their leaders took on a public display, thumbling their noses at law enforcement in the newspapers, did the feds start coming down especially hard on them. Same way with online gambling - if you recall nobody paid much attention to it until guys such as Calvin Ayre started publicly thumbing his nose at the US, and the advent of all the advertising on the poker shows on TV basically did the same thing. I mean in prime time here were ads for online websites that the justice department says are illegal. That miffs the feds a lot, and the online websites got what they deserved because of it. Of course there were other reasons as well for that recently passed legislation.
No alcoholic could possibly believe the next drink could be a good thing for them
Not true. Many alcoholics, especially "functional" alcoholics, do not believe they are addicted to alcohol and view drinking as a positive aspect in their lives.
My original point, however, was that in many different threads, not just this one, you have been very critical of all gambling in general, due in large part as you said to your own experiences, but I just don't believe that most people that wager on sports on line, etc., need the government or any "watchdog" to tell them what they're doing is destructive. Just like most people who drink alcohol do not wind up developing a problem with drinking, even though alcohol abuse is a far greater problem in society than gambling.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> No alcoholic could possibly believe the next drink could be a good thing for them
Not true. Many alcoholics, especially "functional" alcoholics, do not believe they are addicted to alcohol and view drinking as a positive aspect in their lives.
My original point, however, was that in many different threads, not just this one, you have been very critical of all gambling in general, due in large part as you said to your own experiences, but I just don't believe that most people that wager on sports on line, etc., need the government or any "watchdog" to tell them what they're doing is destructive. Just like most people who drink alcohol do not wind up developing a problem with drinking, even though alcohol abuse is a far greater problem in society than gambling. >>
Gambling and alcohol should not be compared - I don't care what you say or how many times you say it. For vulnerable people, especially underage children, you need a "watchdog" my friend. Actually you need a pitbull and that's what I intend to be whether you like it or not. Get used to it.
<< No alcoholic could possibly believe the next drink could be a good thing for them
Not true. Many alcoholics, especially "functional" alcoholics, do not believe they are addicted to alcohol and view drinking as a positive aspect in their lives.
My original point, however, was that in many different threads, not just this one, you have been very critical of all gambling in general, due in large part as you said to your own experiences, but I just don't believe that most people that wager on sports on line, etc., need the government or any "watchdog" to tell them what they're doing is destructive. Just like most people who drink alcohol do not wind up developing a problem with drinking, even though alcohol abuse is a far greater problem in society than gambling. >>
Gambling and alcohol should not be compared - I don't care what you say or how many times you say it. For vulnerable people, especially underage children, you need a "watchdog" my friend. Actually you need a pitbull and that's what I intend to be whether you like it or not. Get used to it.
Steve
There are far worse social ills than gambling affecting our youth today. And since there are few, if any, minors posting on these boards, I'm afraid your "pitbull" status may be targeting the wrong audience. But to each his own, I'm just not as personally affected by this topic to say much more otherwise. Good luck!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i><< No alcoholic could possibly believe the next drink could be a good thing for them
Not true. Many alcoholics, especially "functional" alcoholics, do not believe they are addicted to alcohol and view drinking as a positive aspect in their lives.
My original point, however, was that in many different threads, not just this one, you have been very critical of all gambling in general, due in large part as you said to your own experiences, but I just don't believe that most people that wager on sports on line, etc., need the government or any "watchdog" to tell them what they're doing is destructive. Just like most people who drink alcohol do not wind up developing a problem with drinking, even though alcohol abuse is a far greater problem in society than gambling. >>
Gambling and alcohol should not be compared - I don't care what you say or how many times you say it. For vulnerable people, especially underage children, you need a "watchdog" my friend. Actually you need a pitbull and that's what I intend to be whether you like it or not. Get used to it.
Steve
There are far worse social ills than gambling affecting our youth today. And since there are few, if any, minors posting on these boards, I'm afraid your "pitbull" status may be targeting the wrong audience. But to each his own, I'm just not as personally affected by this topic to say much more otherwise. Good luck! >>
No problem man - you're a good poster on this forum. Frankly, without naming names, something I would never do, I do notice on these boards some who do seem like addicted gamblers, who also I think are good guys who I would hate to see get destroyed by bookies, so my "warnings about gambling" posts are geared towards them even though I do not and will not address them directly. So you see, there is a "target" audience here in my view. But I already stated that I would lessen my posts on this subject and I intend to do that.
No problem man - you're a good poster on this forum. Frankly, without naming names, something I would never do, I do notice on these boards some who do seem like addicted gamblers, who also I think are good guys who I would hate to see get destroyed by bookies, so my "warnings about gambling" posts are geared towards them even though I do not and will not address them directly. So you see, there is a "target" audience here in my view. But I already stated that I would lessen my posts on this subject and I intend to do that.
Again...no problem.
Steve
I agree with you there.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Update: I just got off the phone with Neteller, and it looks like 6-8 weeks if you request a check by mail and 1-3 weeks if you request an EFT. So, hopefully my early February we'll all have our dough in hand. I'll post more as developments unfold.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Well I hope they gave a straight answer to Boo so everyone gets their money. I have a feeling that they probably did.
I just checked and Neteller stock hasn't traded since January 16th. That certainly isn't good. Be interesting to see what it finally opens at. >>
Yes it will. FWIW, Canadians are apparently receiving 'cheques' by courier within 2 days after they've been processed, so the delay is only with US customers and withdraw requests in US funds.
Found this to be very disturbing. friend of mine got a check from over seas gambling site. and letter was opened! inside a letter stating mail checked by us government.
i guess bush passed a law that they can open our mail now also. check was in there though and he cashed it.
There was an informative article about this in the weekend edition of USA Today. I'll try to scan it and post it here but I'm not sure if I can get it within the CU 50KB picture limit. I'll give it a shot.
Parents have a responsibility to protect their children, not the government. If consenting adults want to piss away their life savings on some poker website located in Aruba, that's their business. I'm not a fan of online poker sites--I've been playing live poker for over 10 years, and nothing compares to it. The few times I did try online poker, it was totally different than the live games, and I see people waltz into the casino after spending a few months playing online, and they are some of the worst players out there. So from a live poker perspective, the online business produced a lot of sucker players ripe for the taking. Some people get really into this stuff--I recall a forum where people exchanged software bots that would play multiple hands for them while they slept... supposedly making $9.00+ an hour. LOL. I don't know if any of that is legit, but it's still none of the governments business.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Hey Steve, just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to scan and post that article.
None of it is anything I necessarily wanted to hear, but thanks anyway.
The money I am trying to withdrawal is a pretty unsubstantial amount to most people, but it's mine and I still want it. It would allow me to compete with Stown for my next All American purchase.
As the internet gambling industry continues to grow by leaps and bounds, so too does the Las Vegas casino industry, which has realized the complimenting aspects of online poker over the years.
And when Super Bowl rolls around, Vegas is quickly reminded of why online sports betting helps fuel its own local economy. Professional sports bettors are known for splurging in Las Vegas during Super Bowl weekend and March Madness. It's the ultimate reward for a successful gaming experience over the Net.
All that has changed this season with a US government crackdown on internet gambling that has witnessed nearly $55 million of professional sports bettor and bookmakers monies seized by FBI agents in an ongoing investigation into the third party payment processor, NETeller.
Gambling911.com has heard reports of some sports bettors having six figure amounts tied up in NETeller.
Noted Vegas sports columnist, Stephen Nover, suggests that many gamblers who would normally travel to Las Vegas to the Super Bowl could not make the trek this year as a result of their funds being tied up in NETeller.
Likewise, Nover reports that "several Las Vegas sportsbook directors, including Robert Walker of the MGM Mirage and Jay Kornegay of the Las Vegas Hilton, said they received fewer five and six-figure wagers than in past Super Bowls."
While at first it may seem the $93.1 million taken in by Vegas this year would hardly qualify as chicken feed, a closer observation shows that these numbers are actually down over last year's $94.5 million. This follows a dramatic trend upward over the past years and certainly one of the most anticipated Super Bowl matchups we have seen in quite some time.
This could very well serve as a precursor to what is expected to be a dramatic decline in revenue taken in by Vegas during the 2007 World Series of Poker. Dozens of internet gambling firms will not be present during this year's WSOP nor will the thousands of poker players they sponsor.
Any updates you can share with me or links you can give me??
I still have $150 out in la la land from Neteller.
What's the current news?
I saw the PPA got a Washington big-wig on board to fight for internet gambling. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in a year or two. I still think as soon as the US gets it's hands in on the money, it'll be back up and running.
This is the latest I have. Perhaps Boo has more. See the bottom of the article.
Online Gambling: NETeller pulls out of Canada and Turkey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Online Gambling: NETeller pulls out of Canada and Turkey
Written by Thomas Jensen Monday, 26 March 2007
The online gambling industry woke up this morning to learn that online money transfer Giant NETeller has decided to withdraw "no pun intended" from the Canadian and Turkish markets.
Here is a statement the company's board released to the London Stock Exchange:
The NETELLER Plc Group (“NETELLER” or the “Group”) (LSE: NLR), the leading global independent online money transfer business, today announced several significant changes to its services in a number of markets.
The Group continually assesses the risk profile and status of the markets its serves. Recent actions by regulators, payment processors, and online gaming operators have increased the uncertainty around certain activities related to online gambling in some jurisdictions. The Board of Directors of the Company reached a decision, on 25 March 2007, that the risk to the Group’s ongoing business in Canada and Turkey has increased in the light of such developments. The Board has therefore concluded that the Group will no longer process transfers related to online gambling sites on behalf of Canada or Turkey resident customers.
Reduced Service to Canada Cessation of Canadian transfers to gambling merchants: the Group will cease processing online gambling related transactions for Canada-resident customers with effect from 12.01 AM MST Monday 9 April 2007.
Suspension of InstaCASH transactions: As of today Monday 26 March 2007, at 12:01 AM MST, Canada-resident customers were no longer able to deposit funds using NETELLER’s instaCASH service either directly or from any online gambling site.
Non-gambling services continue: Canada-resident customers will continue to be able to use their e-wallet accounts for non-gambling transactions, including peer-to-peer and pre-paid debit transactions.
Available customer funds: Customer funds, including those of Canadian residents, are held in a pooled, segregated trust account and will be available for withdrawal by customers, on demand. Canadian customers continue to be able to use their e-wallet accounts for non-gambling transactions.
Reduced Service to Turkey In light of recent legislation passed in Turkey on 28 February 2007, which prohibits certain forms of online gambling to be offered by any “unauthorised” domestic or foreign company to citizens in Turkey, NETELLER has decided to implement a voluntary phased withdrawal of the payment services related to online gambling that it offers customers to the Turkish market.
Withdrawal of local bank funding options: Local bank deposit options for Turkey-resident customers were withdrawn on Friday 9 March 2007. Cessation of Turkish transfers to and from online gambling merchants: The Group has ceased processing online gambling related transactions for Turkey-resident customers with effect from 6.01 AM GMT Monday 26 March 2007.
Non-gambling related services continue: Turkey-resident customers will be able to continue to use their NETELLER e-wallet account for any non-gambling related money transfers and withdrawals. Customers located in other parts of the world are not affected by this change, and NETELLER continues to service these customers in the normal manner. Group Business Impact
The Canadian business of the NETELLER Group would likely have contributed significantly to the Group’s revenue and profitability during 2007 and the loss of this business is now likely to have a material negative impact on the Group’s results for the full year ending 31 December 2007. The Turkish business of the Group does not represent a material proportion of the Group’s overall customer base, revenue or profitability.
The Group does not anticipate making further significant reductions in staff as a result of these service changes as the Board believes that its Calgary-based operations are appropriately sized to handle the remaining non-North American business of the Group. The Group will continue to focus on the growth markets of Europe and Asia.
Other Updates
The Group’s shares will continue to be suspended from trading on AIM in view of the continuing uncertainties the Group faces. Further announcements will be made as appropriate.
The Company is working towards the finalisation of its audited annual results for the year ended 31 December 2006 and will announce the date on which these will be published to the market in due course.
The Company would, in light of recent press comment concerning its announcement of 21 March 2007, like to make clear that the 75 day period referred to in that announcement was for agreement of a plan of distribution with the United States Attorney's Office. It would remain to be determined, as part of that plan, the precise timing of the distribution of funds to US customers.
Neteller, once the friend of online poker players everywhere, is now facing a class action lawsuit from a group of poker players who are owed money by the online money managing company. Neteller recently suffered a number of blows delivered by the US Government when its founders were arrested and accused of money laundering, and millions of dollars in assets were seized. One player, Isaac Haxton, is looking for $800k that he had deposited in his Neteller account after a 2nd place finish in the PokerStars Caribbean Adventure tournament. Haxton will not be joining the class action suit, but he does have an attorney looking after his issue.
Any updates you can share with me or links you can give me??
I still have $150 out in la la land from Neteller.
What's the current news?
I saw the PPA got a Washington big-wig on board to fight for internet gambling. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in a year or two. I still think as soon as the US gets it's hands in on the money, it'll be back up and running.
In the meantime, I WANT MY MONEY. >>
I still have a four figure sum stuck at Neteller, so no news here.
Comments
I'd like to follow that +EV discussion on your website if you don't mind. Don't worry (LOL) I don't and won't post on poker forums...I've been invited to a number of times but my feeling is that's their terrain and I'd be like a trespasser.
I don't have your website link so post it here. Why not? Maybe somebody here will check it out. If somebody here is gonna gamble online anyway, might as well support a CU member while doing it, right? I'd rather see you get the affiliate commission money than some rich forum owner like Shulman at Cardplayer who doesn't need the money.
Steve
<< <i>Joe has been acting like a bit of a troll
Steve >>
That's true, and it why I have not continued to post. I find it impossible to discuss this issue with you. Serious question: Have you considered a career in politics? You have all the basics down: Repeating talking points, "won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!" and citing misleading studies. I'm not trying to troll when I ask that, honestly.
Joe
<< <i>
<< <i>Joe has been acting like a bit of a troll
Steve >>
That's true, and it why I have not continued to post. I find it impossible to discuss this issue with you. Serious question: Have you considered a career in politics? You have all the basics down: Repeating talking points, "won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!" and citing misleading studies. I'm not trying to troll when I ask that, honestly.
Joe >>
Joe, no disrespect but I remember a lot of my poker conversations with Boo, Brian and some others here...but I don't recall a single thing about anything you have stated regarding poker. So perhaps start making some better points and you'll get a better response? Frankly, the only thing right now I'm remembering about you is your troll-like behavior. If that's what you want then so be it.
The thing I enjoy about guys like Boo and Brian, is they bring new, interesting points to the table. Any parrot can regurgitate the same crap that's been printed in gambling books for the last thirty years - I've read all that garbage already. Who feels like discussing that if that's what you were stating, which maybe that's the reason I didn't remember it or ignored it.
Steve
Joe
<< <i>Edit to add: Nobody I've talked to who requested an EFT AFTER the 15th of Jan. has received funds in their bank account yet, and nobody is sure why. Neteller is a publicly traded company, so I have a hard time believing that they're just going to up and run with my (our) dough, and apparently Canadian citizens are getting FedEx checks/ EFT's processed with zero hassles, so it could just be a question of their processer getting nervous after all the arrests. If I learn more I'll post it. Anyway, the 'party line' appears to be that it will take 6-8 weeks for checks to arrive, so it looks like the best case scenerio is that I'll get my money by my freaking birthday in mid March. Nice. >>
My initial problem was solved and I just requested money from my account via an eft.
I'm not sure why there would be a problem. I thought Neteller was similar to paypal??? There shouldn't be a problem with them transferring to and from a checking account, the problem would be accepting money from or transferring to an online gambling site.
I'll let you know if I receive my money in a few days.
BTW Boo, I just tried the final exam on your site, and got 9 out of 11 right.
Guess I need to improve just a little.
shawn
<< <i>There were half a dozen or so times we discussed poker in the old Open Forum. Those posts told me what I needed to know, but it took me a couple years to get sick enough of seeing you post the same things over and over that I mentioned it.
Joe >>
Well yea...but many of my ideas are original and I know that...and I've been told that...it's not fresh to you anymore now, but fresh to someone hearing it for the first time.
Guaranteed you won't find my ideas about poker and gambling in many or any other books or articles. But I'm no genius here Joe - I'm no Thomas Edison or Ben Franklin capable of coming up with endless new ideas every post. My ideas are based on many years of gambling and looking at all the aspects of it from the point of view of needing to quit gambling. And frankly, it worked well for me.
But at this point Joe, it's obvious no matter what I say, you're gonna respond the way you want to respond, so I'll leave it at that.
Steve
Joe
<< <i>I guess I wasn't being clear: You annoyed me right away, it just took me a while for the pile to get large enough and smelly enough for me to post about it. Anyway, I'm comfortable agreeing to disagree as well.
Joe >>
That's one of the best back-handed olive branch extentions I've ever seen
<< <i>I guess I wasn't being clear: You annoyed me right away, it just took me a while for the pile to get large enough and smelly enough for me to post about it. Anyway, I'm comfortable agreeing to disagree as well.
Joe >>
Well here's a toast Joe...one annoying SOB to another.
My bank account is no longer an option for deposits or withdrawals with bodog.
And here I was going to wager one ten thousandth of my net worth on a game tomorrow.
Thank you 'Holier Than Thou Are', hypocrite, piles of steaming crap politicians for saving me from myself!
The fun of internet gambling has now offically been banned in America
unless a cut of it can go into a cesspool so our elected officals can lick out their share!
Welcome to our home of the free ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Nothing personal Stevek, but your long-winded sermons within any thread where gambling is mentioned comes off as preachy and didactic for many of us more recreational wagerers, I'm sure. I realize you had a real big problem with gambling in your past (by your own admission), but to completely demonize it and stereotype it the way you do is akin to an alcoholic saying that anyone who likes to drink beer is on a slippery slope to ruin. Just my .02. >>
FWIW I don't think steve's post reflect a holier than thou attitude towards gambling. He admits he was friends who gamble, and I haven't yet heard him say that adults shouldn't be allowed to bet if that's what they want to do.
He does think that no gambling game where the house takes a cut can be beaten in the long run, and he feels that I-net gambling sites prey on children. I know that he's wrong on the first point, though I'll concede that he may be on to something on the second point.... but overall I think most of steve's commentary on this subject hasn't been inflammatory or insulting.
FWIW I don't think steve's post reflect a holier than thou attitude towards gambling. He admits he was friends who gamble, and I haven't yet heard him say that adults shouldn't be allowed to bet if that's what they want to do.
He does think that no gambling game where the house takes a cut can be beaten in the long run, and he feels that I-net gambling sites prey on children. I know that he's wrong on the first point, though I'll concede that he may be on to something on the second point.... but overall I think most of steve's commentary on this subject hasn't been inflammatory or insulting.
I don't think his commentary has been insulting or inflammatory by any means--maybe it's just me, but I just don't find the topic of on-line gambling that significant to sports talk in general, but maybe that's because I'm not into it hard-core. Frankly, I'm surprised this thread has generated as many responses as it has, though most of those responses are by only a couple of members.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Let's just do away with everyone's freedoms in the name of 'protecting the children'.
We'll see just how big a generation of overly protected, simpleton, namby pambys we can raise.
Maybe America can eventually become a French province if we get wimpy enough ... yeah, that's the ticket!
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
<< <i>Nothing personal Stevek, but your long-winded sermons within any thread where gambling is mentioned comes off as preachy and didactic for many of us more recreational wagerers, I'm sure. I realize you had a real big problem with gambling in your past (by your own admission), but to completely demonize it and stereotype it the way you do is akin to an alcoholic saying that anyone who likes to drink beer is on a slippery slope to ruin. Just my .02. >>
I've had a lot of posts here at CU as you can see by the post count, but to my recollection I believe that I've only ever started one thread about gambling, and that was when that law was being passed a few months ago regarding restriction of funds. So every other comment I've made about gambling has been in response to other's comments.
CU does seem to allow an occasional OT post as long as the OT posts don't get out of hand. Actually, since PSA has authenticated poker chip autographs, discussions regarding gambling and poker isn't necessarily that OT.
I'm not ever going to apologize for trying to warn people about the dangers involved with gambling. Sometimes I'm going to be proactive about that rather than reactive. When I was getting clobbered from gambling, I wish that someone would have grabbed me by the arm and told me about the realities and consequences of gambling on a personal level. I can't turn back the hands of time, and hypotheticals generally bore me - but perhaps I wouldn't have listened to that person but maybe that bug in my ear would have helped.
Please don't compare gambling to drinking. It's not the same thing. The addictive characterisics could be the same for some people but it's not the same in this main aspect - No alcoholic could possibly believe the next drink could be a good thing for them, whereby with an addicted gambler there is always the hope that next bet could hit a jackpot, start a gambling hot streak or maybe just pay the rent. That's one thing that makes gambling addiction such a tough addiction.
I've never knocked anybody for participating in private small stakes poker games in their house, being involved in the office March Madness pool, and some other types of gambling - although these types of gambling could be problematic as well. I've actually personally witnessed people getting financially ruined in one night in private poker games, but of course big stakes were involved.
Frankly if you knew me better, you would know that I'm more anti-"foolish" gambling than anti-gambling overall. In a nutshell, trying to make money gambling against gambling industry offered games is foolish - plain and simple and that's that. In my work, I technically "gamble" all the time - do I take a chance on hiring this applicant? - thousands of dollars could be lost if the employee doesn't work out. Should 5K be spent on a direct marketing campaign or some other type of advertising, or spent elsewhere for promotion? You can call that gambling or risk taking but it's of course done in a manner whereby there is a good chance to win. There are no good chances to win at gambling industry offered games and that includes online poker. Even the most ardent supporter of online poker would still admit that the vast majority of players lose money, and sometimes big money.
I am also anti-scammer. My strong belief is that much gambling offered out there today, especially online poker, is going to go down in history as one of the biggest scams of this early 21st century. Here is a fact - there has never been one, count it, ONE single properly documented long term winner at online poker verified by a reputable independent auditing company. Not one! That fact alone should tell you that online poker is a sucker's game.
What's interesting is that hardly anybody here ever railed on me before about this. But now that you see your online gambling coming to an end you're barking at me. You can blame me or blame Bill Frist or anybody else you want, but if you look at the facts then it's clear to me that considering how much gambling is legal in the US, that these online operators through their sheer greed brought this upon themselves, especially with their arrogance.
Think their arrogance had nothing to do with it? Think again. A good example is the mob. When they kept their mouths shut and did what they did privately, for the most part they were left alone unless of course when their violence became public. It was when some of their leaders took on a public display, thumbling their noses at law enforcement in the newspapers, did the feds start coming down especially hard on them. Same way with online gambling - if you recall nobody paid much attention to it until guys such as Calvin Ayre started publicly thumbing his nose at the US, and the advent of all the advertising on the poker shows on TV basically did the same thing. I mean in prime time here were ads for online websites that the justice department says are illegal. That miffs the feds a lot, and the online websites got what they deserved because of it. Of course there were other reasons as well for that recently passed legislation.
Steve
Not true. Many alcoholics, especially "functional" alcoholics, do not believe they are addicted to alcohol and view drinking as a positive aspect in their lives.
My original point, however, was that in many different threads, not just this one, you have been very critical of all gambling in general, due in large part as you said to your own experiences, but I just don't believe that most people that wager on sports on line, etc., need the government or any "watchdog" to tell them what they're doing is destructive. Just like most people who drink alcohol do not wind up developing a problem with drinking, even though alcohol abuse is a far greater problem in society than gambling.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> No alcoholic could possibly believe the next drink could be a good thing for them
Not true. Many alcoholics, especially "functional" alcoholics, do not believe they are addicted to alcohol and view drinking as a positive aspect in their lives.
My original point, however, was that in many different threads, not just this one, you have been very critical of all gambling in general, due in large part as you said to your own experiences, but I just don't believe that most people that wager on sports on line, etc., need the government or any "watchdog" to tell them what they're doing is destructive. Just like most people who drink alcohol do not wind up developing a problem with drinking, even though alcohol abuse is a far greater problem in society than gambling. >>
Gambling and alcohol should not be compared - I don't care what you say or how many times you say it. For vulnerable people, especially underage children, you need a "watchdog" my friend. Actually you need a pitbull and that's what I intend to be whether you like it or not. Get used to it.
Steve
Not true. Many alcoholics, especially "functional" alcoholics, do not believe they are addicted to alcohol and view drinking as a positive aspect in their lives.
My original point, however, was that in many different threads, not just this one, you have been very critical of all gambling in general, due in large part as you said to your own experiences, but I just don't believe that most people that wager on sports on line, etc., need the government or any "watchdog" to tell them what they're doing is destructive. Just like most people who drink alcohol do not wind up developing a problem with drinking, even though alcohol abuse is a far greater problem in society than gambling. >>
Gambling and alcohol should not be compared - I don't care what you say or how many times you say it. For vulnerable people, especially underage children, you need a "watchdog" my friend. Actually you need a pitbull and that's what I intend to be whether you like it or not. Get used to it.
Steve
There are far worse social ills than gambling affecting our youth today. And since there are few, if any, minors posting on these boards, I'm afraid your "pitbull" status may be targeting the wrong audience. But to each his own, I'm just not as personally affected by this topic to say much more otherwise. Good luck!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i><< No alcoholic could possibly believe the next drink could be a good thing for them
Not true. Many alcoholics, especially "functional" alcoholics, do not believe they are addicted to alcohol and view drinking as a positive aspect in their lives.
My original point, however, was that in many different threads, not just this one, you have been very critical of all gambling in general, due in large part as you said to your own experiences, but I just don't believe that most people that wager on sports on line, etc., need the government or any "watchdog" to tell them what they're doing is destructive. Just like most people who drink alcohol do not wind up developing a problem with drinking, even though alcohol abuse is a far greater problem in society than gambling. >>
Gambling and alcohol should not be compared - I don't care what you say or how many times you say it. For vulnerable people, especially underage children, you need a "watchdog" my friend. Actually you need a pitbull and that's what I intend to be whether you like it or not. Get used to it.
Steve
There are far worse social ills than gambling affecting our youth today. And since there are few, if any, minors posting on these boards, I'm afraid your "pitbull" status may be targeting the wrong audience. But to each his own, I'm just not as personally affected by this topic to say much more otherwise. Good luck!
No problem man - you're a good poster on this forum. Frankly, without naming names, something I would never do, I do notice on these boards some who do seem like addicted gamblers, who also I think are good guys who I would hate to see get destroyed by bookies, so my "warnings about gambling" posts are geared towards them even though I do not and will not address them directly. So you see, there is a "target" audience here in my view. But I already stated that I would lessen my posts on this subject and I intend to do that.
Again...no problem.
Steve
Again...no problem.
Steve
I agree with you there.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I just checked and Neteller stock hasn't traded since January 16th. That certainly isn't good. Be interesting to see what it finally opens at.
<< <i>Well I hope they gave a straight answer to Boo so everyone gets their money. I have a feeling that they probably did.
I just checked and Neteller stock hasn't traded since January 16th. That certainly isn't good. Be interesting to see what it finally opens at. >>
Yes it will. FWIW, Canadians are apparently receiving 'cheques' by courier within 2 days after they've been processed, so the delay is only with US customers and withdraw requests in US funds.
i guess bush passed a law that they can open our mail now also. check was in there though and he cashed it.
mail
how long until no more deposits can be made through western union and moneygram?
The EFT I requested from Neteller on January 19th still shows as pending. Not good.
In the meantime, no more online poker still sucks.
shawn
-
END
None of it is anything I necessarily wanted to hear, but thanks anyway.
The money I am trying to withdrawal is a pretty unsubstantial amount to most people, but it's mine and I still want it. It would allow me to compete with Stown for my next All American purchase.
I'll let you know what happens.
shawn
<< <i>You guys would do the same I'm sure. I just hope you all get your money! >>
That, mon ami, would make two of us!
Vegas Hurt by Internet Gambling Crackdown: Super Bowl Numbers Down
As the internet gambling industry continues to grow by leaps and bounds, so too does the Las Vegas casino industry, which has realized the complimenting aspects of online poker over the years.
And when Super Bowl rolls around, Vegas is quickly reminded of why online sports betting helps fuel its own local economy. Professional sports bettors are known for splurging in Las Vegas during Super Bowl weekend and March Madness. It's the ultimate reward for a successful gaming experience over the Net.
All that has changed this season with a US government crackdown on internet gambling that has witnessed nearly $55 million of professional sports bettor and bookmakers monies seized by FBI agents in an ongoing investigation into the third party payment processor, NETeller.
Gambling911.com has heard reports of some sports bettors having six figure amounts tied up in NETeller.
Noted Vegas sports columnist, Stephen Nover, suggests that many gamblers who would normally travel to Las Vegas to the Super Bowl could not make the trek this year as a result of their funds being tied up in NETeller.
Likewise, Nover reports that "several Las Vegas sportsbook directors, including Robert Walker of the MGM Mirage and Jay Kornegay of the Las Vegas Hilton, said they received fewer five and six-figure wagers than in past Super Bowls."
While at first it may seem the $93.1 million taken in by Vegas this year would hardly qualify as chicken feed, a closer observation shows that these numbers are actually down over last year's $94.5 million. This follows a dramatic trend upward over the past years and certainly one of the most anticipated Super Bowl matchups we have seen in quite some time.
This could very well serve as a precursor to what is expected to be a dramatic decline in revenue taken in by Vegas during the 2007 World Series of Poker. Dozens of internet gambling firms will not be present during this year's WSOP nor will the thousands of poker players they sponsor.
---
Christopher Costigan, Gambling911.com
Originally published February 8, 2007 10:37 am ET
Any updates you can share with me or links you can give me??
I still have $150 out in la la land from Neteller.
What's the current news?
I saw the PPA got a Washington big-wig on board to fight for internet gambling. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in a year or two. I still think as soon as the US gets it's hands in on the money, it'll be back up and running.
In the meantime, I WANT MY MONEY.
Online Gambling: NETeller pulls out of Canada and Turkey
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Online Gambling: NETeller pulls out of Canada and Turkey
Written by Thomas Jensen
Monday, 26 March 2007
The online gambling industry woke up this morning to learn that online money transfer Giant NETeller has decided to withdraw "no pun intended" from the Canadian and Turkish markets.
Here is a statement the company's board released to the London Stock Exchange:
The NETELLER Plc Group (“NETELLER” or the “Group”) (LSE: NLR), the leading global independent online money transfer business, today announced several significant changes to its services in a number of markets.
The Group continually assesses the risk profile and status of the markets its serves. Recent actions by regulators, payment processors, and online gaming operators have increased the uncertainty around certain activities related to online gambling in some jurisdictions. The Board of Directors of the Company reached a decision, on 25 March 2007, that the risk to the Group’s ongoing business in Canada and Turkey has increased in the light of such developments. The Board has therefore concluded that the Group will no longer process transfers related to online gambling sites on behalf of Canada or Turkey resident customers.
Reduced Service to Canada
Cessation of Canadian transfers to gambling merchants: the Group will cease processing online gambling related transactions for Canada-resident customers with effect from 12.01 AM MST Monday 9 April 2007.
Suspension of InstaCASH transactions: As of today Monday 26 March 2007, at 12:01 AM MST, Canada-resident customers were no longer able to deposit funds using NETELLER’s instaCASH service either directly or from any online gambling site.
Non-gambling services continue: Canada-resident customers will continue to be able to use their e-wallet accounts for non-gambling transactions, including peer-to-peer and pre-paid debit transactions.
Available customer funds: Customer funds, including those of Canadian residents, are held in a pooled, segregated trust account and will be available for withdrawal by customers, on demand. Canadian customers continue to be able to use their e-wallet accounts for non-gambling transactions.
Reduced Service to Turkey
In light of recent legislation passed in Turkey on 28 February 2007, which prohibits certain forms of online gambling to be offered by any “unauthorised” domestic or foreign company to citizens in Turkey, NETELLER has decided to implement a voluntary phased withdrawal of the payment services related to online gambling that it offers customers to the Turkish market.
Withdrawal of local bank funding options: Local bank deposit options for Turkey-resident customers were withdrawn on Friday 9 March 2007.
Cessation of Turkish transfers to and from online gambling merchants: The Group has ceased processing online gambling related transactions for Turkey-resident customers with effect from 6.01 AM GMT Monday 26 March 2007.
Non-gambling related services continue: Turkey-resident customers will be able to continue to use their NETELLER e-wallet account for any non-gambling related money transfers and withdrawals. Customers located in other parts of the world are not affected by this change, and NETELLER continues to service these customers in the normal manner.
Group Business Impact
The Canadian business of the NETELLER Group would likely have contributed significantly to the Group’s revenue and profitability during 2007 and the loss of this business is now likely to have a material negative impact on the Group’s results for the full year ending 31 December 2007. The Turkish business of the Group does not represent a material proportion of the Group’s overall customer base, revenue or profitability.
The Group does not anticipate making further significant reductions in staff as a result of these service changes as the Board believes that its Calgary-based operations are appropriately sized to handle the remaining non-North American business of the Group. The Group will continue to focus on the growth markets of Europe and Asia.
Other Updates
The Group’s shares will continue to be suspended from trading on AIM in view of the continuing uncertainties the Group faces. Further announcements will be made as appropriate.
The Company is working towards the finalisation of its audited annual results for the year ended 31 December 2006 and will announce the date on which these will be published to the market in due course.
The Company would, in light of recent press comment concerning its announcement of 21 March 2007, like to make clear that the 75 day period referred to in that announcement was for agreement of a plan of distribution with the United States Attorney's Office. It would remain to be determined, as part of that plan, the precise timing of the distribution of funds to US customers.
Neteller, once the friend of online poker players everywhere, is now facing a class action lawsuit from a group of poker players who are owed money by the online money managing company. Neteller recently suffered a number of blows delivered by the US Government when its founders were arrested and accused of money laundering, and millions of dollars in assets were seized. One player, Isaac Haxton, is looking for $800k that he had deposited in his Neteller account after a 2nd place finish in the PokerStars Caribbean Adventure tournament. Haxton will not be joining the class action suit, but he does have an attorney looking after his issue.
<< <i>Steve or Boo??
Any updates you can share with me or links you can give me??
I still have $150 out in la la land from Neteller.
What's the current news?
I saw the PPA got a Washington big-wig on board to fight for internet gambling. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in a year or two. I still think as soon as the US gets it's hands in on the money, it'll be back up and running.
In the meantime, I WANT MY MONEY. >>
I still have a four figure sum stuck at Neteller, so no news here.