PSA is kind of like my old English teacher

ColleSystem · January 10, 2007 12:09PM

Years ago when I was a student in one particular English class, I figured out that the teacher would grade papers almost exclusively on grammatical and spelling errors. Once, I realized that the teacher wasn't focusing on content and creativity, I just started submitting a bunch of correctly written crap for good grades. Basically, within the "rules" of grading, the teacher lost sight of the meat and potatoes.

This is kind of analogous with PSA. I have graded several hundred 1977 star wars cards. Many of these have had crisp photographs and electric coloring only to be slapped down with a grade of an 8. Side by side with these cards, I have several 9s and 10s that are centered perfectly and withstand the test of the almighty 10x zoom, but are slightly out of focus. Why would I want to keep these higher graded, out of focus cards for my registry set? To me, PSA, like my English teacher, misses the essence, the meat and patatos, of the entire card. It makes no sense to place microscopic fraying or minuscule centering placement over a crystal clear photography with deep coloring.

My plea to PSA is to grade the image (clarity and coloring) first. Everything else is secondary (of course barring major flaws).

Wondo · January 10, 2007 12:17PM

"of course barring major flaws"

like centering!!

sorry, no disrespect intended, just tooooooo easy.

ColleSystem · January 10, 2007 12:21PM

<< like centering!! >>

Wow, throw me under the bus. Seriously, yes, I would considered something ridiculous as 85 15 centering a major flaw, but 70 30 side to side is hardly a major flaw in my book. I guess I'd rather look at a nice picture, perhaps I am in the minority?

Scott

Wondo · January 10, 2007 12:25PM

<< 

<< like centering!! >>

Wow, throw me under the bus. Seriously, yes, I would considered something ridiculous as 85 15 centering a major flaw, but 70 30 side to side is hardly a major flaw.

Scott >>

Scott,

It's weird, but centering is a major problem in my eyes - all things being equal. Now focus can be worse; if the offending card is blurry, well then, hell, it's worthless. A card is there or its not - marginal cards blow.

ColleSystem · January 10, 2007 12:28PM

<< A card is there or its not - marginal cards blow. >>

Agreed. I think PSA is putting too many marginal cards in 9 and 10 holders. A card that is only marginally blurry shouldn't be in a 9 or a 10 holder even if it has 50 50 centering top, bottom, left and right and corners as sharp as knives

Wondo · January 10, 2007 12:36PM

Scott,

The arguement is not limitted to the one issue. All plastic grades have degrees - decide what you like and you can get some deals. Try to appease the public and you may get somewhat frustrated. Remember, the standards are PSA's, not yours. PSA is the best thing going (in my opinion), but it does not preclude you evaluating cards to your standards.

Just my .02,

John

grote15 · January 10, 2007 12:41PM

Centering is a big factor for me as a collector, too. There are few things that frustrate me more about collecting than pulling an off-centered card with four sharp corners and mint in every other way. Or finding a mint unopened cello or rack pack with an OC top card. I don't mind a card like that for a raw set maybe, but not in a PSA holder or for an unopened pack collection. Just my opinion, as I know OC doesn't bother others as much.

ColleSystem · January 10, 2007 12:48PM

Perhaps I should clarify, I guess my intent of the thread is to speak about picture quality, not centering issues.

grote15 · January 10, 2007 12:54PM

Perhaps I should clarify, I guess my intent of the thread is to speak about picture quality, not centering issues.

That's fine, I didn't realize it was a restricted thread. I'll try to stay on topic next time.

grote15 · January 10, 2007 12:55PM

Many of these have had crisp photographs and electric coloring only to be slapped down with a grade of an 8 because of 70 - 30 centering.

Sounds like you were the one that first mentioned centering as an issue, anyway??

ColleSystem · January 10, 2007 12:59PM

Yes, but only in a round about way. Really my example with the 8 actually stands independently from the centering issue, I just sort of threw that in (altough in hindsight, I shouldn't have). The crux of the example is to bring to light the vast difference in picture quality between the cards, not their centering.

Boopotts · January 10, 2007 1:02PM

<< Many of these have had crisp photographs and electric coloring only to be slapped down with a grade of an 8 because of 70 - 30 centering.

Sounds like you were the one that first mentioned centering as an issue, anyway?? >>

Yeah, I don't get it---- I know other collectors (dgf springs to mind) put an exceptionally high value on picture registration, but for most collectors I think centering/corners etc. is more of a priority. In any case, it's not like it's going to change now. PSA has graded however-many millions of cards, and there would be blood in the streets if they changed the grading scale.

ColleSystem · January 10, 2007 1:06PM

<< PSA has graded however-many millions of cards, and there would be blood in the streets if they changed the grading scale. >>

Boo, yes, I know what you mean. Luckily, with my set, it is not an investment, but a family heir loom. As a result, I have the flexibility of not trying to protect my investment by keeping lower quality 9s and 10s. Instead, I can keep some of the 8s over 9s and 9s over 10s and not have to worry about keeping the set's monitary "worth"

yawie99 · January 10, 2007 1:24PM

I collect at the low end of the grading scale, but I agree that image is everything. I've become almost fanatical about color and registration.

fandango · January 10, 2007 9:20PM

<< Perhaps I should clarify, I guess my intent of the thread is to speak about picture quality, not centering issues. >>

one reason why it may be a bit more difficuly to judge crispness of an image and depth of color is that when a grader looks at a card, they are not comparing it to another PSA 10 version of the card...they are subjectively looking at the corners, the edges, the centering, the surface....they may not think or see that a card is a bit out of focus, if there is not another identical card right next to it to compare it to....

you may see when you line up 10 of the same issues in a row that some have deeper color then others, or better focus, but that would be much more difficult to determine based on looking only at one....

i dont think PSA is giving out too many 9 and 10's....just the opposite, they seem stingy on the 10's...which is good...

if you want to talk about undeserving 9 an 10's, go see Beckett....

fiveniner · January 10, 2007 9:41PM

larryallen73 · January 10, 2007 11:52PM

Everything else is secondary

To YOU everything else is secondary. I am much more concerned about centering, sharp corners, rough edges, card gloss, etc... than I am picture focus. Maybe I am an uneducated collector but I don't even notice the focus and since I usually don't have two cards next to each other to compare I don't know what the focus "should" look like.

srs1a · January 11, 2007 12:04AM

I agree with you for the most part -- image clarity (registration or focus) doesn't seem to matter for any of the major graders. To me, a GEM MINT card should have everything -- including a crystal clear image. I can tolerate slight image and/or centering issues on a MINT card.

PSA does still list the OF (out of focus) qualifier, but, I bet it has been 5+ years since I saw a card with and OF on it...and I'm not sure that I can say that I have ever seen 5 of them.

gregmo32 · January 11, 2007 12:24AM

My two cents is that so much of the grading process is subjective, but a card graded a 10 should be perfect. GEM MINT implies a card is without flaw, whether it be centering, picture clarity, corners, etc. As annoying as it is to get a card graded MINT and see that it is not, to see a card graded a 10 with problems is kind of ridiculous, in my opinion.

drewsef · January 11, 2007 12:32AM

I'm more personally drawn to a card with heavy color and incredible clarity with a minor corner ding than one with no corner ding that is out of focus and the color is light.

53BKid · January 12, 2007 10:23AM

So ColleSystem: Did you get A's in the old man's class?

The thing about the grading is you never know exactly why the card comes back graded the way it does.

Take your chances cracking the best centered cards out and resubmitting them. You might get what you're after.

jmbkb4 · January 12, 2007 11:33AM

<< 

<< like centering!! >>

Wow, throw me under the bus. Seriously, yes, I would considered something ridiculous as 85 15 centering a major flaw, but 70 30 side to side is hardly a major flaw in my book. I guess I'd rather look at a nice picture, perhaps I am in the minority?

Scott >>

I think you make an excellent point.

And......you will be able to save $$$ by buying the lower-graded but crisp cards while the others fight it out for the "PSA 10 or 9" grade, right?

PSA is kind of like my old English teacher

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