NFL HOF'ers to come

FavreFan1971

I was going through my list and looking to buy a few up and comers to make sure I have their rookie cards.

What do you think about Priest Holmes? Yes, No?

He had three huge years, and a decent 4th, is that enough? Gale Sayers was similar in having only a couple of good years. I am guessing he gets in but not right away. What do the rest of you think?

drewsef

Priest Holmes, no way. I do believe Terrell Davis should go in one day though.

larryallen73

I say Larry Allen is a lock but his rookie cards will never be worth much as he is just an o'lineman.

shagrotn77

I really don't think Priest has any chance of getting in. He wasn't great for long enough.

drewsef

I agree about Larry Allen, he is still blowing up people at San Fran. As a side note, what would be considered his best rookie card?

Davemri

1994 Playoff for Allen

jradke4

I dont think you can compare the impact Holmes had vs. Sayers. I never say Sayers play but we was such a weapon whose career was cut my injury. He also was a big return guy as well if I remember my history right. I would say that Davis was much more dominant that Holmes. He is the reason that Elway has two rings and Favre only has one.

ssgunnip

I have the only Larry Allen 94 Playoff PSA 10 and if you think it is not worth anything, offer me a $1,000 and see me turn it down in a heart beat!

JasP24

<< <i>I was going through my list and looking to buy a few up and comers to make sure I have their rookie cards.

What do you think about Priest Holmes? Yes, No?

He had three huge years, and a decent 4th, is that enough? Gale Sayers was similar in having only a couple of good years. I am guessing he gets in but not right away. What do the rest of you think? >>



Holmes=zero chance...He was a good system back who had a couple of great years. He was no Gale Sayers. he didn't "electrify" the crowd everytime he touched the ball...Even in KC...lol..Unlike Davis, he didn't win any rings or Super bowl MVPs...He also never rushed for 2,000 yards. And Davis is far from a lock...I'd give him a 50/50 shot.

Larry Allen is close to being a first ballot guy...Considered the best OG in the game for an extended period...

Jason

tennesseebanker

I think Phil Simms needs to be put into the HOF soon !

JasP24

<< <i>I think Phil Simms needs to be put into the HOF soon ! >>



Another very underrated guy..Similar to Boomer Esiason...Not sure why these guys never even get a sniff of the HOF. Honestly, i don't think either is quite HOF caliber, both are definitely worthy of strong consideration..I put these guys in the same category as maybe a Ken Stabler, with the exception that Stabler keeps making the finals and these guys don't even make the Semi's....

I'd like to see Simms and Boomer in the finals at least once so they can have their careers debated...The closer you look, the more HOF worthy they seem..But they gotta get their foot in the door first..

Jason

larryallen73

I have the only Larry Allen 94 Playoff PSA 10 and if you think it is not worth anything, offer me a $1,000 and see me turn it down in a heart beat!

I appreciate your sentiments.

However, you better sell yours before I get around to grading my Larry Allen collection!

I haven't counted but I have hundreds of various Larry Allen cards and have never gotten any graded. I might flood the Larry Allen "market."

JasP24

<< <i>I have the only Larry Allen 94 Playoff PSA 10 and if you think it is not worth anything, offer me a $1,000 and see me turn it down in a heart beat!

I appreciate your sentiments.

However, you better sell yours before I get around to grading my Larry Allen collection!

I haven't counted but I have hundreds of various Larry Allen cards and have never gotten any graded. I might flood the Larry Allen "market." >>



Sweet, I could use a PSA 10..Those Playoffs are super tough, even fresh out of the pack because of chipping...

ssgunnip

I have opened several boxes of 94 Playoff and Jason has also. Anybody who has, knows that the chances of finding a 10 are virtually non-existent. Those cards are messy.

tennesseebanker

Simms numbers warrant him being in, check this out
he is
21st in pass attempts
25th in completions
20th in passing yards
27th in td's
he led his team to two Super Bowls, Was the Mvp of one, Holds the record for highest completion % in a Super Bowl.
He is ahead of Aikman and Starr, Namath,Bradshaw Steve Young in Passing yards.
He is ahead of Aikman, Griese, Stabler and others in passing td's.
Any way you get my point, I think his #s alone merit him being in.

RonBurgundy

Go buy an Art Monk rookie, because he and The Playmaker are going in this year.

kcballboy

<< <i>

<< <i>I was going through my list and looking to buy a few up and comers to make sure I have their rookie cards.

What do you think about Priest Holmes? Yes, No?

He had three huge years, and a decent 4th, is that enough? Gale Sayers was similar in having only a couple of good years. I am guessing he gets in but not right away. What do the rest of you think? >>



Holmes=zero chance...He was a good system back who had a couple of great years. He was no Gale Sayers. he didn't "electrify" the crowd everytime he touched the ball...Even in KC...lol..Unlike Davis, he didn't win any rings or Super bowl MVPs...He also never rushed for 2,000 yards. And Davis is far from a lock...I'd give him a 50/50 shot.

Larry Allen is close to being a first ballot guy...Considered the best OG in the game for an extended period...

Jason >>



Just because a back didn't rush for 2,000 yards or win a Superbowl MVP doesn't mean he shouldn't get in. Look at the list of HOFer's that never rushed for 2k. Would you rather have a guy that runs for 2000 yards or a guy that scores 50 touchdowns in 2 years? (by the way, touchdowns means points and points means wins, unless of course your D gives up more points than you score). Not saying that Priest should get in because he shouldn't, but to say that not having a 2,000 yard season or a SB MVP warrants exclusion is silly.

AlanAllen

I think what he's saying is that Holmes and Davis do not have the career numbers to get in without a few dominant, spectacular seasons. In Davis' best 2 seasons, he was dominant, considered one of the best in the game, and won championships. Holmes was great in his best 2 years, but not up to the level of Davis. The RBs in the HOF that never rushed for 2000 yards had longer, more productive careers than Holmes or Davis.

Joe

JasP24

<< <i>I think what he's saying is that Holmes and Davis do not have the career numbers to get in without a few dominant, spectacular seasons. In Davis' best 2 seasons, he was dominant, considered one of the best in the game, and won championships. Holmes was great in his best 2 years, but not up to the level of Davis. The RBs in the HOF that never rushed for 2000 yards had longer, more productive careers than Holmes or Davis.

Joe >>



WOW...That is almost word for word what I would have responded with..

Thanks Joe!

Jason

Pinkcatfish

If Michael Irvin can learn to watch his mouth - he may get in. Lot of baggage with this guy

Allen

Terrell Davis Select Certified is such a sweet card. I remember the days you couldn't touch it for less than $100. I think its highest books was $135 and SP was $70.

grote15

No way Holemes gets in, IMO, his career just wasn't long enough, and the NFL puts even more emphasis on championships and KC never got within a whiff of the Super Bowl. TD has a shot, because of the Super Bowls, and because he was even more electrifying than Holmes was, but his abbrievated career will weigh against him, too. Thurman Thomas deserves some attention, too.

I can't stand Irvin, but his long, productive career, and his performance on the field and the three Super Bowls should get him into the HOF, easily, IMO. Only his off the field problems can get in the way of his eventual induction.

AlanAllen

Great minds think alike .

I was looking at the semi-finalists list today, and I don't see anyone that would be out of place in the HOF. Well, except Art Modell because he's a lying, classless, spineless, greedy, slimy POS with no loyalty, self-respect, or sense of reciprocity. I'd probably vote for 22/25 if I had a vote.

Joe

JasP24

15 Modern era finalists will be announced tomorrow...

I'm always interested to see who doesnt make the cut from semis to finals and try to figure out why...

Jason

JasP24

Class of 2007 Finalists:

Listed alphabetically, the 17 finalists with their positions, teams, and years active follow:

Fred Dean - Defensive End - 1975-1981 San Diego Chargers, 1981-1985 San Francisco 49ers
Richard Dent - Defensive End - 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles
Russ Grimm - Guard - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins
Ray Guy - Punter - 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Gene Hickerson - Guard - 1958-1973 Cleveland Browns
Michael Irvin - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys
Bob Kuechenberg - Guard - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins
Bruce Matthews - Guard, Tackle, Center - 1983-2001 Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Titans
Art Monk - Wide Receiver - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles
Andre Reed - Wide Receiver - 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
Charlie Sanders - Tight End - 1968-1977 Detroit Lions
Paul Tagliabue - NFL Commissioner - 1989-2006
Derrick Thomas - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs
Thurman Thomas - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins
Andre Tippett - Linebacker - 1982-1993 New England Patriots
Roger Wehrli - Cornerback - 1969-1982 St. Louis Cardinals
Gary Zimmerman - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos

More interestingly, here are the guys who didn't make the cut from 27/17:

Terrell Davis-I think this really hurts his chances down the road
Dermontti Dawson-Up against a ton of O-Lineman. I think he'll get his chances down the road, he was dominant.
Randy Gradishar-Next year will be his last as a Modern candidate and will be in a long list of Senior Candidate LBs.
Kevin Greene-Long shot to ever get in, but once Derrick Thomas gets in, there are no NEW HOF caliber LBs coming up for at least 5 years
Charles Haley-Longshot to ever make it, but if Dent gets in will help his case
Lester Hayes-Darrell Green, Aeneas Williams and Deion Sanders coming soon to the list, his chances are about gone
Randall McDaniel- Didnt expect him to make the HOF first ballot, but how was he not chosen over say Fred Dean or Andre Tippet as a finalist? He will eventually get in
Art Model-Too disliked for the Cleveland move
Ken Stabler-With no solid HOF QB candidates coming in for the next 5 years at least, Stabler might get a shot next year or 2009 (his last as a modern candidate)
George Young-???

Jason

AlanAllen

Wise move to exclude Modell

I have nothing more than a gut feeling to base this on, but I think this is Ray Guy's year. My totally unirformed wild guesses:

Ray Guy - best punter ever, overdue.
Gene Hickerson - at least one senior will get in, and Hickerson has the easy to defend credentials because of the success of the backs he blocked for.
Bruce Matthews - 14 Pro Bowls? Absolute lock.
Paul Tagliabue - deserves a lot of credit for the health of the league today. Maybe won't get in right away, but I expect he will.
One more, but who.... I'm going to take a stab and say Thurman Thomas.

Joe

JasP24

<< <i>Wise move to exclude Modell

I have nothing more than a gut feeling to base this on, but I think this is Ray Guy's year. My totally unirformed wild guesses:

Ray Guy - best punter ever, overdue.
Gene Hickerson - at least one senior will get in, and Hickerson has the easy to defend credentials because of the success of the backs he blocked for.
Bruce Matthews - 14 Pro Bowls? Absolute lock.
Paul Tagliabue - deserves a lot of credit for the health of the league today. Maybe won't get in right away, but I expect he will.
One more, but who.... I'm going to take a stab and say Thurman Thomas.

Joe >>



Pretty close Joe..lol

Matthews, Hickerson and Thurman Thomas are locks this year IMO.

After that, I think probably Tagliabue, then one of the WRs(Irvin, Monk, or Reed) and if they use all 6 spots, the last will be a wildcard. Between Guy, Kuechenberg, Wehrli and Sanders.

Derrick Thomas could also slip in as the strongest Defensive player on the board in place of either the WR or wildcard guy.

The other 5 are extreme longshots. Dean, Dent, Grimm, Tippett and Zimmerman. I would be shocked to see any of these 5 make it this year.

Jason

ldferg

i'm a titan fan...pullling for bruce matthews.

NickM

Tagliabue is a lock. I consider Bruce Matthews a sure bet as well.

For the other 1 to 4 slots, I expect Thurman Thomas and Gene Hickerson to be elected, with a strong chance that Derrick Thomas is as well.

I think they don't elect a 6th person, but if they do, my hunch is that Charlie Sanders gets the spot. Senior nominees tend to do rather well in the voting - plus he would be only the 2nd skill position player among 6 inductees.

As for the other candidates, the WRs cancel each other out to some degree - when an argument can be made for each one being best, none is likely to make it.

Matthews and Hickerson eliminate the chances that any other OL makes it - 2 is plenty.

I see Guy facing too much resistance from the group of voters who don't see a punter as important enough for the HOF.

Nick

wheat34

I would make a big vote for Herschel Walker!! I believe he still ranks in the top 15 all purpose yards category. No team ever figured out how to use him right but he still was a force!

AlanAllen

Walker is #31 all time in yards from scrimmage, with many non-HOFers in front of him. Great player (at times), but not quite there IMHO.

Joe

wheat34

Top 20 Combined Net Yardage Leaders
February 22, 2005
Pro Football Hall of Fame Top 20 - Combined Net Yards Leaders
(At the Start of the 2005 Season)

Rank Player Yrs. Rush Rec. Int. PR KOR FR Total
1 (2) JERRY RICE 20 645 22,895 - - 6 - 23,546
2 (1) Brian Mitchell 14 1,967 2,336 - 4,999 14,014 14 23,330
3 (3) Walter Payton * 13 16,726 4,538 - - 539 - 21,803
4 (4) EMMITT SMITH 15 18,355 3,224 - - - -15 21,564
5 (5) TIM BROWN 17 190 14,934 - 3,320 1,235 3 19,682
6 (9) MARSHALL FAULK 11 11,987 6,584 - - 18 18 18,607
7 (6) Barry Sanders * 10 15,269 2,921 - - 118 - 18,308
8 (7) Herschel Walker 12 8,225 4,859 - - 5,084 - 18,168
9 (8) Marcus Allen * 16 12,243 5,411 - - - -6 17,648
10 (10) Eric Metcalf 13 2,392 5,572 - 3,453 5,813 - 17,230
11 (20) CURTIS MARTIN 10 13,366 3,211 - - - -9 16,568
12 (11) Thurman Thomas 13 12,074 4,458 - - - - 16,532
13 (12) Tony Dorsett * 12 12,739 3,554 - - - 33 16,326
14 (13) Henry Ellard 16 50 13,777 - 1,527 364 - 15,718
15 (14) Irving Fryar 17 242 12,785 - 2,055 505 7 15,594
16 (15) Jim Brown * 9 12,312 2,499 - - 648 - 15,459
17 (16) Eric Dickerson * 11 13,259 2,137 - - - 15 15,411
18 (17) Glyn Milburn 9 817 1,322 - 2,984 9,788 - 14,911
19 (18) James Brooks 12 7,962 3,621 - 565 2,762 - 14,910
20 (19) Ricky Watters 10 10,643 4,248 - - - - 14,891

halosfan

other HOFers to come are Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, and Torry Holt.

AlanAllen

Ahh, counting return yards . Nothing wrong with that as a statistic, but I don't think it's given much credence by the HOF voters. I doubt Brian Mitchell will get a sniff, for instance.

Joe

wheat34

Agreed. But I think it is simbolic of Walker's range. He was also a fullback for his last two years so he didn't have much stat padding with that. Still quite valuable. Of course it is the "Pro Football HOF" and if they used his USFL stats, he would have been a first ballot entry. Even without that, I still think there is merit. I'll keep my fingers crossed!

GDM67

It would be a shame (not that that's a major consideration for them, apparently) if Brian Mitchell was completely ignored. Kick returns aren't something done on the practive squad, they're an integral part of the game.

I think the single most outstanding stat on Gale Sayers' line is his tremendous kickoff return average. It's not the sole reason he's in the Hall (7 seconds of video will convince most people he belongs, and I have him in my RB top 5), but it's the stat that jumps up and yells "Look at this!!" among his career numbers, to me.