why would someone sell this raw?

cravetopps

Link...

1951 Ford RC

why do I get the feeling something is wrong with this card?

bri2327

Most likely because they know something is wrong.

Authorized SGC dealers would have cards like that graded by SGC. If it isnt there is a reason.

onlyanumber

Looks trimmed to me.

cravetopps

yes, I think you're right. Top right is trimmed I would bet.

SDSportsFan

In my opinion, that card is definitely trimmed!

The corners are way too sharp considering the apparent wear on the rest of the card.


Steve

MorrellMan

Not to go off on a tangent - but what a scummy seller. Authorized dealer my ass. How does he sleep at night?

envoy98

HUH?

Q: If this card is submitted to SGC for grading, and is rejected for reason of authentication (conterfeit, reprint, alteration)will you honor a money back guarantee? Thanks in advance. Gerry
Jan-05-07
A: Yes,we do stand behind our cards and I can assure your the card is real, untrimmed and not a reprint.. As I state in the auction I am an authorized SGC Dealer.. Several people have asked the same question. My answer to them is if you want it graded I will send it out to SGC from here.. If it comes back less then NM I will work out a price adjustment with you, but if it comes back NMMT I except the same to adjust the price upward. I think the card will 7(NM), so we should be ok.. I will split the cost of grading and mail both ways with the winner, if that is ok with you continue to bid..thx dean

fiveniner

Be Careful with that one.What actually got me started in buying graded is the fact that I once bought a 1958 Roberto Clemente YL which seemed to be the perfect buy even though it did not come cheap nrmt/mt.I later sold it in good faith and later recieved a nasty email from the buyer stating that he had the card submitted to PSA for grading and it came back with evidence of trimming.Standing behind everything I sell 100% I gladly refunded the money and because of my professionalism he sent me a 58 Hank Aaron YL low grade of course but still a very nice way of him apologizing for the threats he made toward me in the Email.I got the card back and of course I went back to the fellow who sold me the card in the first place and he refunded me also no problem.However this began my quest toward the graded card world.
I have no regrets.

Stump

Looks like to me the seller doesn't get anything graded. All his auctions are raw. It seems to me that feedback would be left to reflect trimmed or altered cards by now. Just my opinion

DJJ

liffeystynx

But isn't it odd that someone who trumpets himself as an Authorized Dealer for a grading company doesn't get his own raw stuff graded? Surely he knows it would increase the value and marketability of the card exponentially. And if it's not his and he's selling the card on consignment, surely he would advise the consignee accordingly?

Or maybe I'm missing something

Jonathan

PSARich

It seems to me there is a good chance that card would get an OC qualifier from PSA. He might fiqure it will sell raw for about the same as an 8 OC. That's assuming it has not been tampered with.

WinPitcher

I tend to agree with dave (stump) looking at this seller's past sales he seems to sell raw. most cards are OC or tilted etc. feedback would have already showed that he sells trimmed, altered cards.

as for the Ford in question I do not think it is trimmed, but at the same time I feel it would do better slabbed. I think he throws out the SGC authorized dealer pitch to show that he knows how to grade and that being in line with them he is legit. which he prolly is
to some extent anyway. nothing surprises me anymore in this hobby.

JMO

bri2327

Even if the card isnt altered the dealer knows what he is doing.

Send that card to PSA and it gets a 6 or 7 with a ST qualifier. They know it, so rather than accept PSA 4-5 prices they try and pass it off as a high end 7 or possibly 8.

Southerncards

Lets look at this from a different angle.

There are print dots, centering issues, gum stain, a scuff and poor registration. He knows that by SGC's standards it would come back less then a NM grade. By some people's standards, its a raw NM card. If he grades it, he loses money but if he puts it out there as NM, its up to the buyer to determine the condition.

WinPitcher

I agree with Jim

Steve

jayhawke

<< <i>but if it comes back NMMT I except the same to adjust the price upward. >>

What a nice response. What is the purpose of this comment? A big turn off.

Southerncards

<< <i>

<< <i>but if it comes back NMMT I except the same to adjust the price upward. >>

What a nice response. What is the purpose of this comment? A big turn off. >>




and its "expect", not "except"

cravetopps

very keen eye, southercards. btw, what is meant by the phrase, "poor registration"?

WinPitcher

Focus is another way of saying 'registration' crave.

Steve

cravetopps

thanks, Steve.

rbdjr1

Here's another one now on ebay:

1951 Bowman Whitey Ford # 1 RC GAI 7.5

rd

Fabfrank

I'm not in the market for this card, but if I were, I wouldn't hestitate to buy it. The seller has 7915 feedback, 12,311 total feedback. 5 negative feedback, with no negs in the last 12 months. He guarantees the card is not altered and would grade. The seller even offers to send the card in for grading for the buyer. The only caveat is how high it would grade.
If you don't like the card for whatever reason, don't buy it. I don't think it's fair to disparage a person, or call them "scummy seller", when their feedback says otherwise.

MorrellMan

Frank - you're right - I'm the one who called him "scummy" and it was indeed a rush to judgement. I felt bad about that (but not bad enough to edit the post ) - my overall feeling of this auction remains that the seller knows something about this card that he is not disclosing, and that's what would disrupt my sleeping pattern if I were him.

Fabfrank

I was a bit surprised at your comment Mark. You're one of the guys who's more positive on this board. I looked at the card again, and aside from it posssibly being OC, top to bottom, the card should garner a 7. Now granted, that's as long as it grades. Even if it doesn't, the seller gives a strong guarantee, as well as having really strong feedback.
For a card like this I would pay the extra coin and send it through the Express Service. You would know the grade within 1 week. The seller even offers to send it in for the buyer.
The issue I think people have with this seller is that he almost dares you to get the card graded. If it comes back less than a 7, he'll adjust the price downward. But if it comes back higher, he expects the same consideration. Otherwise, the buyer should just send the card in themselves.

This board is great for calling out shill bidders, bad sellers with poor feedback, sellers who don't honor their auctions or honor their guarantee. But this guy seems to be legit. As soon as someone raises a little suspicion (whether warranted or not), there's an immediate dogpile of negativity. After a few posts, a negative opinion is suddenly construed as negative fact, and a persons rep is smeared.

Mark, as one of the good guys (and very knowledgeable) on these boards, we need to keep the threads and posts moving in a postive manner

Fabfrank

Wow. I just re-read my post and I sounded like a Moderator (I'm not).

MorrellMan

<< <i>Mark, as one of the good guys (and very knowledgeable) on these boards, we need to keep the threads and posts moving in a postive manner >>



absolutely right - no apologies necessary. You didn't sound like a moderator, just a friend calling it as he sees it.

PSARich

I stand by my previous post that the seller might figure with an OC qualifier he might as well sell it raw. I am not big on buying ungraded cards with the thinking that I will grade them and come out ahead. However, I have some good fortune in doing so with a few cards in the last 3-4 months. The biggest issue is always creases, etc. that you cannot see from viewing ebay scans. The seller of the 1951 Ford might assume that the card will grade 7 OC or maybe 8 OC at best, which scares away a lot of buyers (the OC). Therefore, selling it uingraded might be the best way to get his best price. Unless there is a crease, the card looked very nice to me, although I believe it to be off-center.

cravetopps

bidding ended at $715 roughly. A bit under SMR for ex-mt. looks like it would grade 6 or 7NQ if it isn't trimmed. The SMR for a 7 NQ is 1750. If it were me, I would have submitted the card because why leave $1000 on the table.

TheCARDKid

I think the OC comment hit the nail on the head.

If it grades out at "X", but OC, it'll instantly scare away 95% of potential bidders. "7 OC, so what?"....so goes the thinking. And we all go off to the next listing.

But if you sell it raw, it taps into this need that people have to "beat the system", and thus it gets bid up.

Southerncards

for those who asked about registration, look at the lower portion and see where the uniform pinstripes bleed over the bottom. Thats what I was talking about.

WinPitcher

Jim

i agree, however poor registration is not confined to color bleeding over into borders. In the case of the Ford yes. Other cards can have registrtion problems in other areas. I guess any area where 2 or more colors merge.

Steve

edited to add: what is with the color of whitey's face on the raw card? notice the graded one is much lighter?

scanner?

Steve

cravetopps

speaking of the issue of the color bleeding into and across the photo border on this card, does PSA measure from the black border or from the bottom of the image?

WinPitcher

For centering?

Steve

cravetopps

yes, for centering, Steve.