Let's talk about using 1/2 point grades from 60-70

jbsteven

I think this method could work out for all involved. Imagine ADDING .5 grades from 60 to 69.5.

Instead of 65 or 66 you could have a 65.5 which would indicate a PQ 65. The price differences in one point jumps would be much less. I know I would like to buy these types of coin if it was used.


What are your thoughts?

Shamika

100 point scale anyone?

IrishMike

If a TPG wanted to add something to indicate a PQ coin for the grade why not just add a + sign or something similar, charge less to have it graded. In the process this will make collectors happier and produce a never ending income stream for them.

jbsteven

Irish

I could see where that would work but to the people who do not know coins as well as we do might not understand a + sign (kinda like the Star at NGC, not all people know EXACTLY what is stands for).



no thanks on a 100 point scale.

tradedollarnut

We already have the half point system and it works very well. It's the PCGS - NGC crossover game.

IGWT

An eleven-point scale is already too precise for consistently accurate results. Let's increase accuracy by decreasing the number of uncirculated grades to four.

jbsteven

<< <i>We already have the half point system and it works very well. It's the PCGS - NGC crossover game. >>



yes, I am aware of this.

however a .5 scale at BOTH services.

notwilight

We never have full agreement on grades with a 1 pt scale. cutting the increment in half would just make for more columns in every spreadsheet.

Bear

SIGGGGhhhhhhhhh!

jbsteven

<< <i>We never have full agreement on grades with a 1 pt scale. cutting the increment in half would just make for more columns in every spreadsheet. >>



exactly why a .5 would work.

Example:

is this coin a 65 or a 66? Many would say one or the other and now there could be a tweener grade.

Baley

We never have full agreement on grades with a 1 pt scale
That is due, in a large part, to "in between" coins sometimes getting the higher grade, other times the lower. Half points would, to a degree, solve this.

I agree with the concept. Several members thoughts are discussed in This older thread

keets

that would make this possible----------------MS66.5*WFB- PL!!!

can we add anything else that can help the buyer and seller adjust their price accordingly??? the longer i collect the more i tend to think that we need less grade numbers/designations/notations and not more.

dragon

I think it's already been shown that even a 1 point scale between MS60 and MS70 doesn't really work, and cutting it even further to 1/2 points would make it even worse. It would however inspire a new new cycle of resubs for the services though.

jbsteven

<< <i>I think it's already been shown that even a 1 point scale between MS60 and MS70 doesn't really work, and cutting it even further to 1/2 points would make it even worse. It would however inspire a new new cycle of resubs for the services though. >>



I believe the one point grades don't work because of the inbetween coins.

mgoodm3

People would still whine about their grades. "That 66.5 is totally a 67". I think grading consistency would suffer if their were extra 1/2 point grades.

keets

in due time we would have coins discussed which were graded MS66.5 which looked like MS66.8 and should probably be in the next higher grade.

believe me when i say that it would never stop.

dragon

If anything, the services should go back to the old way of BU, Choice BU, Gem BU, and Superb Gem BU, and let the free market figure out pricing.

Baley

for something like an 1881-s dollar, it's not that big a deal: an MS-63 is $55, an MS-64 is $80, an MS-65 is $185. Half points would help a little.

But for a 1925-s dollar, an MS-63 is $200, an MS-64 is $600, and an MS-65 is $22,000! That coin clearly needs MS64.5 as a grade option

Bear

Adding the 0.5 to the system would certainly

add a new avalanche of resubmissions on coins.

It would give collectors two options. Accept the NGC

at approx 0.5 grade lower compaired to PCGS and now

we would have the PCGS 0.5 higher. If PCGS doesn't

want to play the *, PQ or Plus game, they certainly have the expertise

to grade 0.5 differences. Perhaps they could start with a few series

and then expand it. I would think it should only apply to MS grades.

Baley

let the free market figure out pricing.

Then why have third-party graders at all? Why doesn't the seller just say, "here's the coin, here's my price" Oh yeah, little thing called conflict of interest.

oldcameoproofsguy

I don't think that it will work. There is already too much discrepancy in the full point system.

Baley

Everybody keeps saying that, apparently not recognizing that much of the "discrepancy" is DUE TO WHOLE POINTS

jbsteven

<< <i>Everybody keeps saying that, apparently not recognizing that much of the "discrepancy" is DUE TO WHOLE POINTS >>



EXACTLY my point.

flaminio

NGC already kind of does the ½ point thing with their star grades -- a 66* is kind of like a 66.5.

I don't think it adds anything to the hobby. Eleven MS grades is already too many. I think if I were pope of numismatics, I'd whittle it down to five -- make it mirror the AUs: just MS60, 63, 65, 68. Plus MS70, but make MS70 a *real* MS70 -- the coin has to be absolutely flawless. Both PCGS and NGC are pumping out too many 70s these days, IMHO.

123cents

<< <i>I don't think that it will work. There is already too much discrepancy in the full point system. >>

dragon

<< <i>let the free market figure out pricing.

Then why have third-party graders at all? Why doesn't the seller just say, "here's the coin, here's my price" Oh yeah, little thing called conflict of interest. >>






The services should serve to authenticate the coins are genuine and problem free and an approximate estimate of condition IMO.

jbsteven

<< <i>NGC already kind of does the ½ point thing with their star grades -- a 66* is kind of like a 66.5.

>>




no, the Star only means exceptional eye appeal.

tradedollarnut

The concept does have some merit.

Part of the problem is for classic coins they're not utilizing the entire 11 point spectrum. Take seated dollars, for instance. No MS68-70. A grand total of 4 MS67 coins and a dozen or so actual MS66 examples. Four dozen gems for the entire series - an average of only one coin per date. MS60 is almost never utilized. This means practically the entire population of uncirculated coins resides in the MS61-64 grade range. Thousands of coins are differentiated in quality by just 4 grades.

This grade compression leads to ever increasing values between the grades. A PCGS gem common date sells for as much as $50k while the undergrade might bring only $5k. Even worse, an MS64 1870-CC would fetch $100k while the undergrade sells for only $30k. $70k for one grade point? Ouch!

Having NGC around relieves the pressure somewhat. Common date gems in NGC holders routinely trade in the $20-30k range ... essentially acting as the 'half point' between MS64 and MS65.

flaminio

<< <i>no, the Star only means exceptional eye appeal. >>

Nonetheless, it's still about as silly as a half point grade. I should be the one to decide what is or is not "exceptional eye appeal", not NGC.

gamr0n

I doubt it would help overall. It would probably just result in a doubled number of coins that are either overgraded or undergraded, but this time by around a half of a point. So I don't think it would really be that great of a change.

i.e.

10 coins misgraded by 1 pt on the 1 pt increment scale: 10*1=10
20 coins misgraded by 0.5 pts on the 0.5 pt increment scale: 20*0.5=10

The result is more misgraded coins but only with a smaller misgrade per coin.

Keyrock

Where would it end ?

If you open that end of the spectrum there would be no stopping, how soon would we see 65.8, 65.9 etc ?

I can see it now "A 65.5 PQ could easily 66, or its a 65.5 but really its a 65.99".....

The current system has it flaws but I think a 0.5 scale would exacerbate it. All of my coins in holders are actually 0.9 points higher already , they just aren't labeled as such

keets

If anything, the services should go back to the old way of BU, Choice BU, Gem BU, and Superb Gem BU, and let the free market figure out pricing.

like i said, less is what we need, up to and including less from all the grading services when it comes to what appears to be an attempt to establish market prices.


for something like an 1881-s dollar, it's not that big a deal: an MS-63 is $55, an MS-64 is $80, an MS-65 is $185. Half points would help a little.
But for a 1925-s dollar, an MS-63 is $200, an MS-64 is $600, and an MS-65 is $22,000! That coin clearly needs MS64.5 as a grade option
let the free market figure out pricing.
Then why have third-party graders at all? Why doesn't the seller just say, "here's the coin, here's my price" Oh yeah, little thing called conflict of interest.

i fail to comprehend how this scenario equates to conflict of interest. besides, it happens all the time nowadays when coins are sold for a premium because they are viewed by both parties as being PQ for the grade. if grading services would focus on authentication, attribution and technically grading a coin while letting US settle evrything else things would be better off.

Myqqy

Consistency in grading seems to be fairly poor as it is- I don't think it would improve any with .5 grades....

dizzlecc

I think being more precise would be a benefit. Think if the stock market only traded in ten or twenty dollar intervals.

As more and more new collectors enter the market and the market shifts to more internet sales, a more precise grading scale would aid in reliability.

I think grading needs to become more scientific and less subjective. The more information we have the better chance we are of being accurate.

I also think they need to add a semi prooflike designation for the morgan series for coins that are one sided or fall short of the proof like criteria (whatever that is?)

If you add the 1/2 point, I think resubmissions would decrease in the long run as people would be satisfied with getting at least some bump in grade for premium coins and not resubmit multiple times.