1921-P Dot Morgans - VAM research

RobJoyce1921dVAMguy

I'm starting to look at the "dot coins" of 1921:

1921-P Dots http://vamworld.wikispaces.com/1921-P+Dots
1921-D Dots http://vamworld.wikispaces.com/1921-D+Dots
1921-S Dots http://vamworld.wikispaces.com/1921-S+Dots

There are Dots in various places on 1921 coins like this one:




The origins are still debated by experts. Some think they may have been hardness tests performed on the dies. Others think they were markers placed to identify a specific die. Another, less supported theory was a gas bubble in the die steel. No conclusive theory has emerged.

I'm starting to catalog the dots. Some have VAM numbers, some do not. Several years ago Leroy VAn Allen stopped assigning VAMs to the dot coins. Rumor has it that this occurred when one collector abandoned VAMing after realizing he could "never find all the dot coins." Perhaps most dots are too minor as some dots have been assigned in recent years. Either way, I hope to catalog them and have them on VAMworld.

I'd appreciate it if anyone with dot information could add it to VAMworld (preferred), email me, or PM me with their info.

On a specific topic, I photographed my 1921-P VAM-3AJ today with a dot over the E of STATES. My obverse doesn't seem to match Leroy's reference photo on ashmore.com that shows a break at the 2nd left star:



My coin has extensive cracking:



and a cool horn on the B of PLURIBUS:



complete photos here to include clashing evidence that probably cracked up this die:
http://vamworld.wikispaces.com/1921-P+VAM-3AJ

But the 2nd left star crack pattern doesn't seem to match even for an EDS. Anyone have a 3AJ to compare to our two photos?

Thanks.

Rob

nesvt

Rob,

I sent you a PM. I have the same coin as you show, but I called it a VAM 3AR. It seems to match the ashmore image. I can't find any text description for the 3AR. Perhaps it shared the same reverse as the 3AJ and has the same dot over the E?

VamGuy

Rob,

The images you posted above are of a VAM 58. I had sent an identical coin to Leroy in January 2006 for attribution. Same die cracks & dot placement. I've since sold the coin, but I've included images below.

nesvt

<< <i>The images you posted above are of a VAM 58. >>



So what happened to the 3AR? Was it eliminated? I only see images on ashmore, but can't find the description.

My coin matches Larry's, Rob's, and the image on ashmore for the 3AR. The cracks and clashes on both sides are identical.

RobJoyce1921dVAMguy

Hmmm. Looks like it could be VAM-58 with the clashed /cracked obverse and 3AJ with the die break 2nd left star, both sharing the same dot reverse.

I'll have to check with leroy and clear it up.

Any other dot coin photos out there? Please populate VAMworld!

Thanks.

Rob

Wolf359

All dots are on the reverse...except for 1921-D VAM-1AK. And only one 1921-S dot coin so far.

For only the 1921-P, 1921-D, and 1921-S to all have significant dot markers, they are clearly intentional identifiers, added in Philadelphia, prior to die shipment to the branches, to track dies and coinage produced. For what exact purpose we don't know, and won't know until a master dot marker chart is found in the Library of Congress which shows how many dies were "dotted", where and why. Maybe something as simple of 's' mint dies were being accidently sent to Denver, and the Mint wanted to see if they actually got used like that, corrected, or sent back. Otherwise there was no proof that dies prepared for 1921-D were actually being used to strike coins in Denver.

Were there production quota issues somewhere? Maybe all the Denver "dot" coins were actually struck in Philly, and the 1921-P dot coins struck in Denver to make it back later, so each mint actually made up the shortage...

DennisH

No dots on this 1921-P, but quite a few interesting cracks. Can anyone offer any I.D. possibilities? There's also a mild crack/break on the obverse that extends from the left of the date over to the rim that reminds one of the 1900-O VAM 29A, and a daisy chain of mild cracks that link all left stars to the E and P. Thanks in advance for any help.

Wolf359

Dennis, don't know sorry. Nice cracks though.

Final thought: Maybe reed counts and collars should be checked on "dot" coins versus non-dot coins. A cool project.

eyoung429

I will take a look at what I have....I have several that I haven't been able to attribute yet that has the dot over the "E"

been without power for the past 2 days and trying to get dug out of the 2nd blizzard here in Colorado.