Burned by Ebay Seller...Next Step?

PSARich

For the second time in over 4,000 transactions, it appears I have been burned on ebay. I made a Paypal payment for item #150067239265 a couple weeks ago. No card delivered and no response to my emails. Upon checking his recent feedback I see that in the last couple weeks he has a bunch of negatives for either 1) not sending the card he showed on his scan, or 2) not sending the card at all. I assume I have fallen victim to the same scam those who recently left negatives have. Anyway, looking down the road, has anyone dealt with PayPal regarding reimbursement for items not received? Their language implies that there is protection against this. Thanks.

stevek

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=yeazell2005&iid=150067239265&ssPageName=VIP:feedback:2:us

muchuckwagon

While in Paypal, go to "My Account" (tab) - click on "Resolution Center" and click on the link to "Open a Dispute". If Paypal does not recover your funds, you can do a charge back via your credit card. However, this will make Paypal very unhappy. Good luck.

calaban7

As a general rule paypal protects the seller as that is the source of their money. The saying follow the money, is a given. You state that there was recent claims of the same activity noted by other buyers. There is some threshold that they used , but not sure what it is, that they will bounce sellers off. as far as getting your money back, you have to file a dispute, then pay paypal an additional $25.00 to get it back, up to a certain limit. If you paid by credit card, you get it all back,FAST!.
I just recently had a bad experience on a lower level, where I filed a item not received dispute with paypal. Within a few days my mint vending box arrived all taped up , cards bent, hair and rugs fibers all over most of the cards, with many , many 2x & 3x in the box. I tried to file another dispute for item not in shape of advertising or what ever its called. Paypal told me that there was a limit of ( 1 ) dispute that you could file, and that was a growing trend amoung bad sellers, was to wait until you file a dispute first then send you garbage knowing you can't touch them . GOOD LUCK, SONNY

digicat

I had a pretty painless Paypal claim recently. Some seriously "not as described" stuff showed up, and after multiple emails to the seller, no dice. I filed a claim, and the seller ignored it completely. Paypal ruled in my favor and returned my money. No sweat.

Bunker

That does suck, but you would think that if someone was going to scam people out of their money they would so it for more than a few $10.00 auctions. Maybe the guy had some kind of accident or illness?

If you file a dispute through Paypal he may not respond if that is the case and you should get your money back. Good luck to you and all the other buyers.

lostdart58

Both my paypal claims ( for items not received) ended with a full refund after no responce from seller.

SOM

But how do claims against a seller usually turn out?

I was just hit with a dispute claim yesterday..."non-receipt of cards." I responded in the Resolution Center...that I did mail the cards...had a USPS receipt (unfortunately, not a del conf)...have 100% feedback...warn buyers that I am not responsible for lost items in my auction descriptions...advise on purchasing insurance (of course they did not)...buyer has quite a few negs...claim is around $190 worth of cards.

is it Buyer's word vs the Seller's with Paypal?

This whole thing sickens me...and all of us who try very, very hard to do it right.

Nick

muchuckwagon

<< <i>But how do claims against a seller usually turn out?

I was just hit with a dispute claim yesterday..."non-receipt of cards." I responded in the Resolution Center...that I did mail the cards...had a USPS receipt (unfortunately, not a del conf)...have 100% feedback...warn buyers that I am not responsible for lost items in my auction descriptions...advise on purchasing insurance (of course they did not)...buyer has quite a few negs...claim is around $190 worth of cards.

is it Buyer's word vs the Seller's with Paypal?

This whole thing sickens me...and all of us who try very, very hard to do it right.

Nick >>



Without delivery confirmation....there is a 99% you will lose the dispute. I don't understand why anyone would take Paypal and then ship a package without delivery confirmation or to an unconfirmed address. You are just asking for a charge back.

sixdart

Correct ... ALL my EBAY auctions go out with delivery confirmation - PayPal or otherwise. I've never had a problem. You can also enter the online tracking info into the PayPal website. This allows the client to track their item and have it available to PayPal staff should a dispute arise.

I also factor in required insurance (items over $100) in my shipping - which requires a signature. They usually won't go against USPS on a signature and delivery confirmation.

braves72078

Paypal is nothing but a scam and all they care about are the fees. All a seller needs is DC showing delivery and they are covered. They can basically sell a $1000 card, then ship a $10 common, have DC showing delivery and it is VERY HARD to get money back from Paypal.

I still use them to pay with but use the credit card so if there is a problem I have some recourse other than the chimps that run Paypal, but I will never again accept payments thru Paypal. The fees are ridiculous and I would rather lower my shipping rates and maybe get a little less for the card than to pay the losers at Paypal those high fees.

Bill

jradke4

So far I havent had a problem getting my money back. Even when I had two claims running at the same time. Maybe I am lucky. Just had to open another one today. Seller hasnt sent in almost 3 weeks. On top of that he is no longer a registered Ebay ID. I have emailed him but he hasnt responded.

cardbender

Sorry to hear both buyers and sellers getting scammed. I agree paypal just drills you on fee's as a seller but if you sell a lot on ebay, it's almost a must to accept payments thru them unless you have a huge following in cards like DSLS and only take checks.

I just factor in 10% right off the top for every sale by way of ebay and paypal fee's.

As a seller I've had only had one paypal claim filed against me (knock on wood) in 8 years on ebay. It was for a factory sealed Baseball card set. I typically offer insurance as an option but always ship with delivery or signature conf. on every item to cover my a$$.

So on my one claim, this buyer was taking pretty long to pay as it was going on 21 days. Instead of sending another invoice or email, I just filed a non paying bidder alert. Of course this immediately gets the buyers attention. They tell me they're waiting on funds from something they sold on ebay as well. I said fine. Two days later I get their paypal payment. They had a confirmed address too. So I mail out this set via USPS priority mail with del. conf. The buyer choose to not insure it. So I'm thinking all is well. Then only five days later I get this priority package sent back to me. I know I wasn't expecting anything from any purchases I had made.

So I open it and it's the same set I just had mailed a few days earlier only the factory seal is broken. I'm thinking great, all the key cards are gone. These Topps sets aren't collated, so I spent the next hour sorting it and putting it in numerical order. I discovered 13 cards missing. Three stars and basically 10 commons. WTF.

At this point I'm thinking why would someone pull out only three of the stars and leave the rest? I then get an email from paypal that's there's a dispute from the buyer. As soon as a dispute is filed, the money is just taken right out of your account and put into a suspended mode where you can't use the funds of course. The item I mailed them 'did not arrive as described' according to the buyer. They claim it arrived already opened. So the claim runs it course and I lose. The buyer wins. Paypal removes the funds from my account and gives them back to the buyer. So I'm out the money and the set. I'm thinking geez isn't this great, another nice loophole that the crooks know how to exploit. Open factory sets and return them with cards missing, then file a false claim w/paypal.

So after talking with some nimrod paypal reps a few times and getting nowhere I basically gave up.

Well, this buyer who scammed me also sells on ebay. In fact they seem to have changed their user name every 6 month's or so. At the time this occured they had 7 negs and around 2000 positives, with a few neutrals too. Not great FB but not terrible either. Their name changes seem to coincide with their negs.
So I start watching their listings. They grade a lot of newer cards with PSA and Beckett. Lot's of 1980's cards, Tiffany's, Update set cards, etc....

About two fulls weeks after I lose my paypal claim, which took 45 days to run it's course, I notice this seller now has the cards they stole out of the this factory set listed on ebay. They were mostly PSA 10's and a few 9's and all were sent it at the same time as the PSA serial numbers were consecutive. They basically cherry picked the set, and shipped back the rest to me. Then sent them off to be PSA graded. Did a charge back claim w/paypal, won it and got their money back and some free cards to grade to boot.

I mean, how dumb of a crook are they? They steal from me with one id, grade the cards, then list them on ebay asap with the same user id. So I printed out their listings and copied the scans into my computer and called paypal. I was told it was too late by a paypal rep and that my time frame to appeal the claim had lapsed. I was just furious. So I waited a couple of days, called paypal again and asked to speak to a supervisor. After listening to my entire long winded story full of details, they said they would review it again.
My expectation at this time for a reversal was nil. I mostly wanted to vent and tell paypal that I was considering dropping their services.

Then two days later I'm logged into my paypal account and the funds were magically back in there. There was no email from paypal, no call from them. They simply reversed their original ruling based on my the new evidence I had provided. I couldn't believe it. Chalk one up for the good guys.

The bad part of it all was this thief made over $1000 on the stolen cards on ebay.

The good part was I got my money refunded and 98% of the set left over to resell again.

If anyone whould like this buyer/seller/thief's ebay name to add to their blocked bidder list or just to avoid buying from these crooks, just pm me. I'll be glad to share it.

Rich

PS-sorry for the long winded post.

262Runner

<< <i>I still use them to pay with but use the credit card so if there is a problem I have some recourse other than the chimps that run Paypal, but I will never again accept payments thru Paypal. The fees are ridiculous and I would rather lower my shipping rates and maybe get a little less for the card than to pay the losers at Paypal those high fees. >>



Bill, It seems funny that you use Paypal to buy, however you are so strongly against paypal. Most credit card merchant accounts will cost you about 2.5 - 3.0% (for keyed in transactions) plus a $.30 cent transaction fee, plus you have to purchase or lease the equipment required to scan or key in a credit card ($750 to $1500). Swiped card transactions will be a lower percentage.

You certainly do not have to use paypal, although it seems the most affordable way to accept credit cards and get the most for your items when selling on ebay. Average size sellers on ebay can figure about 10% for overhead (Listing, selling and paypal fees), larger sellers should be a bit lower. If you can open a business anywhere in the US for less than 30% overhead you are doing well.

Although paypal has its problems, it has certainly made buying and selling on ebay very easy and convenient. Many ebay sellers have thousands of transactions with only 1 or 2 paypal claims.

262

grote15

.warn buyers that I am not responsible for lost items in my auction descriptions...advise on purchasing insurance (of course they did not)

This is a misconception that many sellers have. Insurance is for the protection of the SELLER not the buyer. As a seller, you can state all you want that you are not responsible for lost packages, etc., but you will lose every time if the buyer files a claim with Paypal.

SOM

I realize that now, grote.

You'd think, after over 6,000 eBay transactions, that I'd know better. But I got seduced by the overall honesty of the folks I've dealt with. This looks to be my first loss as a seller in 8 years (I've been burned about 3-4 times as a buyer). No one to blame but myself.

From now on, it's a sixty-cent Delivery Confirmation for any buyer whom I have not previously dealt with. And I'll gladly pay it.

Merry Christmas.

Nick

grote15

You'd think, after over 6,000 eBay transactions, that I'd know better. But I got seduced by the overall honesty of the folks I've dealt with. This looks to be my first loss as a seller in 8 years (I've been burned about 3-4 times as a buyer). No one to blame but myself.

Don't be that hard on yourself. Truth is, almost all ebayers ARE honest, but it just takes one thief to ruin a thousand positive experiences. As a seller, I offer insurance on all items under $100, but if the buyer doesn't purchase it I pay for it anyway if the item is more than $35-$40. It's worth the expense, IMO. Anything over $200, I automatically add the cost of insurance to the shipping charge.

Merry Christmas!

Tabe

I got ripped off on a $30 lot of cards back in March. Filed a claim in April, won the claim. I received $5 back ($30 - $25 fee). Chalked it up as a loss. So what do I see in my inbox tonight? An e-mail from Paypal saying they'd recovered the rest of the $$$ - 8 months after I filed the dispute. Must say I'm pleased to get the $$$ finally...

Tabe

grote15

An e-mail from Paypal saying they'd recovered the rest of the $$$ - 8 months after I filed the dispute. Must say I'm pleased to get the $$$ finally...


Cool!

My understanding is that Paypal can only recover funds from a seller if he has funds in his Paypal account, which is probably why you got only $5 back then. But I also understand that Paypal will put a "lien" on the seller's account if they rule in your favor so that as soon as funds come into the seller's account they will be transferred to you to settle his "debt" to the buyer.

calaban7

Paypal charges $25 to the buyer to recover funds from ones of their own. I've use paypal many , many times, been fried a couple of times and once the problem is esculated to a claim, is an automatic $25.00 charge. I've had 3 or 4 sellers that I paid $10- $15 dollars too and nothing arrived . I wanted my money back. NOTHING. Go to paypal, wait , wait, Oh---- this doesn't meet our minimum $25 chargs, THE END. THEY PROTECT THEIR OWN KIND

grote15

Paypal charges $25 to the buyer to recover funds from ones of their own. I've use paypal many , many times, been fried a couple of times and once the problem is esculated to a claim, is an automatic $25.00 charge. I've had 3 or 4 sellers that I paid $10- $15 dollars too and nothing arrived . I wanted my money back. NOTHING. Go to paypal, wait , wait, Oh---- this doesn't meet our minimum $25 chargs, THE END. THEY PROTECT THEIR OWN KIND

That is not entirely correct. If you file your claim through ebay, there is a $25 fee (and they only cover up to $200), but there is NO fee if you file directly through Paypal (and there is NO limit there).

cardbender

<< <i>.warn buyers that I am not responsible for lost items in my auction descriptions...advise on purchasing insurance (of course they did not)

This is a misconception that many sellers have. Insurance is for the protection of the SELLER not the buyer. As a seller, you can state all you want that you are not responsible for lost packages, etc., but you will lose every time if the buyer files a claim with Paypal. >>



Hi Grote,
I'm not sure I understand your post. I've sold a lot on ebay over the past 8 years. How and why are sellers required to purchase insurance to cover themselves, when all paypal requires is proof of delivery with either delivery conf, or signature conf.? I always mail with either one of these forms as is required by paypal in the USA. I would like to do the right thing to cover myself as a seller, not make the post office richer by forcing the buyer to purchase insurance, and make the buyer comfortable with the transaction. What am I missing here? Did paypal's polices change recently that they now require insurance for all items sold?

Any insights.....

Thanks,
Rich

grote15

Hi Grote,
I'm not sure I understand your post. I've sold a lot on ebay over the past 8 years. How and why are sellers required to purchase insurance to cover themselves, when all paypal requires is proof of delivery with either delivery conf, or signature conf.?

Delivery confirmation doesn't prove receipt by the buyer only that the package has been delivered by the post office. Paypal requires signature confirmation to prove actual receipt of the package. If the package is "lost" however, or not delivered at all, Paypal will refund the buyer in every case if a claim is filed. The insurance is so the seller can then file his own claim with the PO for a refund after Paypal has refunded the buyer at the conclusion of the claims process. If insurance is not purchased by the seller, Paypal will refund the buyer and the seller is out of luck.

cardbender

Grote,
Thanks for the info. I honestly didn't realize that. I thought a seller was cool with paypal charge backs by including delivery conf. with every shipment. I guess I'll have to re-read paypals website for this disclosure.

Thanks,
Rich

calaban7

I got my first ever scammed by the seller refund by Paypal tonight. I recently bought a 1983 vending box that was listed as Mint. I had to file a non-received complaint that esculated (SP?) to a claim. I was promptly mailed a box of worthless cards, and with only 1 claim per item allowed, I was screwed. I calmly but REAL firm explained what had happened and they told me they would try to refile another claim.
I was issue a partial credit ( the final selling price less their $25 processing fee). This is the 1st time they have ever ruled on my behalf. I shall have to piss on them a little less from now on.
Oh by way, the sellers were booted off of ebay------ priceless