Does this forum really consist of the unkempt, unwashed masses in numismatics?
I always thought that this forum represented a very good cross section of numismatics. We have budget collectors here, as well as collectors who spend millions upon millions of dollars each year on coins. Although there are many more collectors out there who don’t participate here, I always assumed that the people here were more than just the unkempt, unwashed masses of numismatics.
In another thread, there was a response as follows:
“Totally incorrect! If you think this forum is a good sampling of the market-you are wrong. I'll say it again, this forum does NOT have the financial firepower to dent the market. I doubt if every POSTING member bought a coin in the upcoming Heritage sale, it still wouldn't account for even HALF of what will be sold.
Remember, Heritage will get some zany number of actual bidders for the sale-my guess is 10,000. I'd say that blows away the actual number of posters here in one year-let alone the dollar value they will spend!
The coin market is now confirmed to consist of SEVERAL hundred thousand people or more. And surprise! Hardly and of them even bother to check this place out! So this is another case of because it is not in front of you, it can't possibly happen-NOT!”
I don’t want to take the comments out of context, so I encourage you to check out Barry’s thread about who will NOT be buying something at the Heritage FUN auction. Not to harp on this issue, but does anyone agree that this forum is NOT a good sampling of the market? We have some pretty prominent members, and collectively it appears that there is some serious cash that gets thrown around on coins. Although probably some of the upper tier heavy hitters are not active members here (maybe they lurk, though), I don’t think I agree that the forum is not a good representation of the market.
[Note—I have a lot of respect for the person who wrote the quote above. I am not bashing this person. I just don’t agree with the statement].
In another thread, there was a response as follows:
“Totally incorrect! If you think this forum is a good sampling of the market-you are wrong. I'll say it again, this forum does NOT have the financial firepower to dent the market. I doubt if every POSTING member bought a coin in the upcoming Heritage sale, it still wouldn't account for even HALF of what will be sold.
Remember, Heritage will get some zany number of actual bidders for the sale-my guess is 10,000. I'd say that blows away the actual number of posters here in one year-let alone the dollar value they will spend!
The coin market is now confirmed to consist of SEVERAL hundred thousand people or more. And surprise! Hardly and of them even bother to check this place out! So this is another case of because it is not in front of you, it can't possibly happen-NOT!”
I don’t want to take the comments out of context, so I encourage you to check out Barry’s thread about who will NOT be buying something at the Heritage FUN auction. Not to harp on this issue, but does anyone agree that this forum is NOT a good sampling of the market? We have some pretty prominent members, and collectively it appears that there is some serious cash that gets thrown around on coins. Although probably some of the upper tier heavy hitters are not active members here (maybe they lurk, though), I don’t think I agree that the forum is not a good representation of the market.
[Note—I have a lot of respect for the person who wrote the quote above. I am not bashing this person. I just don’t agree with the statement].
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
There are times when the crusty's come out to chat, and they are filled with knowledge that a few of us truly enjoy.
Then there are those that do not have a clue, but enjoy a raging brawl on the boards.
I read, I learn.
What some people ought to do is look before leaping into the frying pan.
if we are unkempt and unwashed, then those in the Armani suits are fake and judgemental, and probably a bit challenged in other arenas of life.
Merry Xmas all!!!!
On the other hand, I think the underlying message of the post is valid: The board may be valuable, but it's not indespensible, and we treat it as such to our own peril.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
Then again, it's probably just a Jersey-thing™.
I do agree that we have an excellent cross-section of people - from budget to deep-pocketed collectors, to dealers, to scholar/authors, all types of classic and modern collectors, real numismatists, and those in it just for the money.
And I think Laura's right in that in the big picture, we represent a tiny fraction of all those active in the hobby.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Hey I resemble that remark! I don't work, shave, wash my clothes or bathe. I'm greasy & nasty cause all I do is ride around from beerjoint to beerjoint on one of my 8 Harley Davidsons (which I also collect) and drink HUGE amounts of Budweiser. My coin collection consists of a circ 1921 Morg, 2 dateless Buffs, & a weird parking lot penny I found at the bridge I live under.
<< <i>Does this forum really consist of the unkempt, unwashed masses in numismatics? >>
Yup..... Pretty much
3 "DAMMIT BOYS"
4 "YOU SUCKS"
Numerous POTD (But NONE officially recognized)
Seated Halves are my specialty !
Seated Half set by date/mm COMPLETE !
Seated Half set by WB# - 289 down / 31 to go !!!!!
(1) "Smoebody smack him" from CornCobWipe !
IN MEMORY OF THE CUOF
Mark
Most importantly it is also skewed to those with larger collections and to dealers.
It's difficult to say how this affects things but there is a large skewing toward those with the time to post.
<< <i> I always assumed that the people here were more than just the unkempt, unwashed masses of numismatics. >>
OK..I get the message. I will take a shower this month, if it is that important to you.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
As far as the buying power of the forum members go, I dont see where that should be a large concern aside from mere curiosity. Off the top of my head, I can think of five members that possess million dollar collections. I would imagine that the bulk of the members have collections that pass 10K. Just guessing, I'd say the average forum member probably spends about 5K a year on coins. Sure there are a lot of us that buy less, but there are a lot of us that buy significantly more. I guess this would make a good poll question. Take the results of that cross section of forum members, extrapolate it to the number of registered users, and we could probably come up with a decent + or - 30% estimate of the buying power of the forum members. I'll work on setting up the poll. Anyone know how many forum members there are?
-David
<< <i>I agree with those who suggested that "we" are a small fraction of collectors. That does not preclude us from being a representative sample. However, I think we are not. I concur with 291fifth that we were more representative three weeks ago. Nowadays the sample is strongly biased toward collectors of modern coins. I think signficantly under represented are 1) Helpful dealers, and 2) "intellectural" collectors, that is, collectors who are interested in the broad scope of numismatics rather than narrow niches.
Mark >>
I am very interested in the broad scope of numismatics.
Personally, I find Laura to be a very lovable character here. She exhibits great knowlege about marketing and numismatics in general. Without her, this place would be nothing but a bunch of hucksters, hypsters, shills, and Jefferson Nickel Dealers. I guess "unkempt, unwashed masses " would be a good descriptor.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
-David
Russ, NCNE
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
Ray
<< <i>I think bhartman nailed it - the two things are not mutually exclusive.
I do agree that we have an excellent cross-section of people - from budget to deep-pocketed collectors, to dealers, to scholar/authors, all types of classic and modern collectors, real numismatists, and those in it just for the money.
And I think Laura's right in that in the big picture, we represent a tiny fraction of all those active in the hobby. >>
<< <i><<<Does this forum really consist of the unkempt, unwashed masses>>>
Hey I resemble that remark! I don't work, shave, wash my clothes or bathe. I'm greasy & nasty cause all I do is ride around from beerjoint to beerjoint on one of my 8 Harley Davidsons (which I also collect) and drink HUGE amounts of Budweiser. My coin collection consists of a circ 1921 Morg, 2 dateless Buffs, & a weird parking lot penny I found at the bridge I live under. >>
Hey you stole my line (or at least borrowed it) except I do not drink beer or ride Harley's. You are more likely to see me driving my Shelby or my Street Rod, occasionally I will take the goat out to stretch her legs.
<< <i>
[Note—I have a lot of respect for the person who wrote the quote above. I am not bashing this person. I just don’t agree with the statement]. >>
3 guesses and the first 2 don't count on who it is.
-David
In the coin club I belong to (which includes some very major hobby participants), I'm the only one of the 40 active members who posts here (although one person does post accross the street infrequently). From what I can tell, many of them don't even seem to surf the Internet that much.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>We are all unworthy scum.
Russ, NCNE >>
.................................WOO HOO..!!!..........
Thankfully Coxe is not among them.
Steve
Second, the opinions referenced at the top of the thread obviously are the expressions of an erudite, self-appointed know-it-all, who appears to have a patent disregard and very low level of respect for a significant portion of collectors. There are kids who began collecting state quarters recently who'll be the ones paying million dollar price tags for coins decades for now. While not writing six figure business, collectively, they put away several billion of these things over the past few years. Unfortunately, I suppose those collectors would fall into the worthless masses category as well.
Finally, as a barometer indicating collectors' sentiment and concerns, this forum appears to capture a good many of the major themes that I'd imagine many collectors who don't use these boards are concerned about. Sure super-high end collectors who can plow several million into coins annually are probably under-represented here, but they're welcome to join us--we'd value their input and would greet them as enthusiastically as the members here welcome newbies and YNs to this forum.
As far as being scum who suck, and not worthy of even collecting, no less holding any worthwhile opinions, I never really thought of myself or any other members who frequent these boards that way. Maybe, just maybe the individual who expressed this sentiment is the one with the problem.
<< <i>First off, scientifically representative surveys, whether they're Gallup polls, Eagleton polls, or Nielsen Ratings, typically either are conducted with either appx. 5-600 or 3500 people or households within a given population. You don't need to canvass the entire population of a group to be able to come up with statistically meaningful information on the population's opinions or buying habits. So while there may not be any more than a small fraction of collectors on these boards, that fact doesn't really influence whether or not this board is relavent, or meaningfully impacts the coin market.
Second, the opinions referenced at the top of the thread obviously are the expressions of an erudite self-appointed know-it-all, who appears to have a patent disregard and very low level of respect for a signficant portion of collectors. There are kids who began collecting state quarters recently who'll be the ones paying million dollar price tags for coins decades for now. While not writing six figure business, collectively, they put away several billion of these things over the past few years. Unfortunately, I suppose those collectors would fall into the worthless masses category as well.
Finally, as a barometer indicating collectors' sentiment and concerns, this forum appears to capture a good many of the major themes that I'd imagine many collectors who don't use these boards are concerned about. Sure super-high end collectors who can plow several million into coins annually are probably under-represented here, but they're welcome to join us--we'd value their input and would greet them as enthusiastically as the members here welcome newbies and YNs to this forum.
As far as being scum who suck, and not worthy of even collecting, no less holding any worthwhile opinions, I never really thought of myself or any other members who frequent these boards that way. Maybe, just maybe the individual who expressed this sentiment is the one with the problem. >>
This post represents everything that is wrong with this forum. The original quote basically stated that the forum members don't represent the big buyers at auction and that if every person on this forum boycotted the FUN sale, it wouldn't even feel it. Now this poster has turned that assertion somehow into Laura stating the members are scum and not worthy of being collectors.
Give her all the flack you want for stuff she deserves, but knock this putting words in her mouth crap off!
I know we have great diversity here in collection value and personalities. That's what keeps me coming back daily. High-end collections or low . . the thrill of the hunt and the passion still burns here in many . . .
It's all relative, but the fun's not.
Drunner
<< <i>
This post represents everything that is wrong with this forum. The original quote basically stated that the forum members don't represent the big buyers at auction and that if every person on this forum boycotted the FUN sale, it wouldn't even feel it. Now this poster has turned that assertion somehow into Laura stating the members are scum and not worthy of being collectors.
Give her all the flack you want for stuff she deserves, but knock this putting words in her mouth crap off! >>
This thread if you read it begins:
<< <i>I always thought that this forum represented a very good cross section of numismatics. We have budget collectors here, as well as collectors who spend millions upon millions of dollars each year on coins. Although there are many more collectors out there who don’t participate here, I always assumed that the people here were more than just the unkempt, unwashed masses of numismatics. >>
There are people who post here who have express little in the way of respect for a broad component of the population posting here.
<< <i>but knock this putting words in her mouth crap off! >>
But, if you do make sure they're misspelled.
Russ, NCNE
oh, never mind.
<< <i>You probably meant something like, "knock off putting words in her mouth... crap-head."
<< <i>I really have no interest in putting anything in...
oh, never mind. >>
Grow up.
You grossly misrepresented what she said in your post. It was either on purpose or in error. Now is the time to apologize for either.
<< <i> If this is close to being true my guess would be we have a few on the boards in the top five percent. >>
I'd guess there have to be some within that bunch who participate here...but my point is that many more of those frequenting these boards may eventually become part of that top 5%, so why not encourage and help cultivate their development in a positive, supportive manner.
<< <i>
Grow up.
You grossly misrepresented what she said in your post. It was either on purpose or in error. Now is the time to apologize for either. >>
Or, you're going to spank me?
<< <i>
<< <i>
Grow up.
You grossly misrepresented what she said in your post. It was either on purpose or in error. Now is the time to apologize for either. >>
Or, your going to spank me? >>
It's 'you're' not 'your' and there's no need for a comma in that sentence.
<< <i>
You do have the huge mix here of different types of collectors, however this is just a TINY fraction of all those who exist and I do not think it can be viewed as true indicator of the overall market. Yet what gets said here, may simply be a view of a smaller segment from here alone. >>
As far as I can tell, there's validity in that point--but you do have a segment of people here who are obviously very interested in collecting, right? Many who post here seem to have both meaningful experience within the hobby/industry, and a fairly good grasp on issues impacting the overall market, IMO.
Just because the participation here is 'TINY' doesn't mean its irrelevant.
(Oh excuse me, as the word is conjuctive, there's an apostrophe that I should have placed in between the 'it' and the 's', forgive me.)
collect or deal in the great million dollar rarities. Also, it is true
that this Forum does not represent a statistically accurate
opinion of all collectors. However, what the Forum may be
indicating, is where the low and midrange coin market
may be heading. If in fact, the underpinings of the market are
moving towards weakness, then the stability of the high range rarity market
may be subject to other economic conditions, having a negative
impact. Sometimes, anticipating what lies over the moutain range is as accurate
as reading the bones or entrailes of an animal sacrifice.
Camelot
<< <i>
As far as I can tell, there's validity in that point--but you do have a segment of people here who are obviously very interested in collecting, right? Many who post here seem to have both meaningful experience within the hobby/industry, and a fairly good grasp on issues impacting the overall market, IMO.
Just because the participation here is 'TINY' doesn't mean its irrelevant.
(Oh excuse me, as the word is conjuctive, there's an apostrophe that I should have placed in between the 'it' and the 's', forgive me.) >>
Good point but you don't really need either of the commas in the 2nd sentence either.
I agree that even though the participation here is highly skewed it still
is meaningful in representing the market. Just because data don't
make a good sample doesn't mean there aren't a large number of data
points. There are about 15,000 users (coin people) here with probably
about 13,000 distinct individuals with 5,000 of them actively participating
or lurking.
We are not an accurate reflection of the overall market but almost every
point of view is represented and we are, in aggregate, a significant part
of the market even if not a large part.
The high end/$ and low end/$ of the market is mostly silent here.
K
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Good point but you don't really need either of the commas in the 2nd sentence either.
I agree that even though the participation here is highly skewed it still
is meaningful in representing the market. Just because data don't
make a good sample doesn't mean there aren't a large number of data
points. There are about 15,000 users (coin people) here with probably
about 13,000 distinct individuals with 5,000 of them actively participating
or lurking.
Ok, looking at an estimated 13,000 users, based on the survey, we could extrapolate that the forum members as a collective this year possessed $390,000,000 to $1.274,000,000 buying power. This assumes that the average amount spent per member is between $30,000 and $98,000.
I would add that I am not saying that all of those funds would be focused on one major sale. It's split amoung all mannors of sources for coins. All I'm trying to point out is that there is significant buying power amoung the forum members.
David