Why are clock positions on early coppers denoted with "K" numbers?

Longacre

I was taking a look at a catalog of early copper. When the writer describes attributes of a coin with reference to clock positions, he uses a "K" number to denote the position. For example, rather than writing that the coin has a rim bruise at 11:00 (yes, the coins are all raw, as horrifying a thought that that is), he states "K11" instead.

Being a lawyer, we use the the letter "K" as shorthand for "contract". Does anyone know the origin of K numbers for early copper? Do other areas of numismatics use K numbers?

Pistareen

It's actually an abbreviation for a guy's last name -- Kolit -- who first pioneered the use of clock positions in attributing error coins back in the early 60s.

It seems pretty obvious now, but SOMEONE had to do it first I guess.

Longacre

<< <i>It's actually an abbreviation for a guy's last name -- Kolit -- who first pioneered the use of clock positions in attributing error coins back in the early 60s.

It seems pretty obvious now, but SOMEONE had to do it first I guess. >>




Cool! I guess I learn something new every day. Thanks.

FredWeinberg

Actually, the gentleman's name wasn't Kolit.

There were two collectors/dealers who came
up with using clock positions as descriptions
for off-center or clipped coins.

One was named Charles Litman, who I believe
had a shop in Penn., still run by his sons.

The other was Michael Kolman, Jr.

Kolman/Litman = Kolit Position

The "K" designation was widely used when I started
collecting errors in the mid-60's (1963!), but over
the years it was dropped, and collectors just used
the Clock position = "Off-Center at 5:00", etc.

Thought I'd clear this up.......

Fred

kranky

Well, I learned something new today!

Dog97

<<<It's actually an abbreviation for a guy's last name -- Kolit -- who first pioneered the use of clock positions in attributing error coins back in the early 60s.

It seems pretty obvious now, but SOMEONE had to do it first I guess. >>>

My retarded self thought it was a misspelling for clock, klock, that became popular like pwned & smoebody.

CaptHenway

Freddy beat me to it!!!!!!

AuldFartte

Hm ... I just thought it meant klock ...

FredWeinberg

Tom,

You're still faster than I am in replying to
alot of these threads!

Glad I beat 'ca to at least one of 'em.....!

tydye

Sorry - but I think that is really stretching to get your name associated with something. I think i will rename the obverse T-1 and the reverse T-2 (after myself). Then if there is a nick in the reverse rim at 3 o'clock. I can just state nick at T-2, K-3

fastrudy

Sounds like bingo

lathmach

<< <i>Actually, the gentleman's name wasn't Kolit.

There were two collectors/dealers who came
up with using clock positions as descriptions
for off-center or clipped coins.

One was named Charles Litman, who I believe
had a shop in Penn., still run by his sons.

The other was Michael Kolman, Jr.

Kolman/Litman = Kolit Position

The "K" designation was widely used when I started
collecting errors in the mid-60's (1963!), but over
the years it was dropped, and collectors just used
the Clock position = "Off-Center at 5:00", etc.

Thought I'd clear this up.......

Fred >>




Great information on where the K designation came from. I've been collecting 49 years and I didn't know that.

Ray

ziggy29

<< <i>I can just state nick at T-2, K-3 >>

You sunk my battleship.

CaptHenway

"T for 2, and 2 for T......."