Ended: 1944-S US-Philippines 1 Centavo on Wrong Metal

mirabela

I found this in an antique shop today. The pic is taken next to a regular, bronze-planchet 1944-S 1 centavo for the sake of comparison. I suppose it could be copper-nickel, although it has toned almost identically to various 1944 & 45-D silver 10c and 20c I have. I have never seen this before, and have been unable to find out anything about it. The planchet appears to be the right size, and is not reeded -- so it doesn't seem to have been intended for a 50c or a US quarter or something like that.

So -- seen anything like it before? Care to explain it?

Update - Here it is on eBay. Care to be the one to finally attribute it? You've got 'till Tuesday 1/16

** 1/16/07 -- Mass on Ohaus Scout Pro digital scale: 5.24g. Mass of normal one (coin on right, also unc) 5.12g. **

291fifth

How does it compare, size-wise, to the Ethiopia 50 cent silver coin? Those were struck at the US mint in 1944 (though I don't know which mint.)

mirabela

Hey, great tip. It's a perfect match.

Hyperion

that'd look nice in a doubleslab !

Byers

U.S Phil Half on silver 25C Pln ANACS

mirabela

So, I tried calling Lyman Allen, but his number is disconnected.

I guess I probably ought to send this to ANACS and see what they say it is. Is the new ANACS as good with that kind of thing as the old one?

And, anyone want to take a shot in the dark as to what this thing might be worth? How many extra X-mas presents is this going to fund, do you think?

Aegis3

First you need to see if it weighs any different from a normal coin, and run a specific gravity test if you can. Color by itself is a poor indicator of a wrong metal strike, especially since it does appear to some extent a "copper-y" color.

Spinynorman

The Ethiopian coins were all struck in Philadelphia. Below are all the foreign coin made in SF in 1944. The Australia shilling or El Salvador 5c look like possibilities. The weight would tell you.

Australia Threepence, KM37, 1944S, Silver .925, 16.0 mm, 1.41 g
Australia Sixpence, KM38, 1944S, Silver .925, 19.3 mm, 2.82 g
Australia Shilling, KM39, 1944S, Silver .925, 23.0 mm, 5.65 g
Australia Florin, KM40, 1944S, Silver .925, 27.0 mm, 11.31 g
El Salvador 5 Centavos, KM134a, 1944, CNZ, 23.0 mm, 5.00 g
El Salvador 25 Centavos, KM136, 1944, Silver .900, 29.0 mm, 7.50 g
Guatemala 1 Centavo, KM251, 1944, Brass, 20.0 mm, 3.00 g
Guatemala 2 Centavo, KM252, 1944, Brass, 25.6 mm, 6.00 g
Netherlands 10 Cents, KM163, 1944S, Silver .640, 15.0 mm, 1.40 g
Philippines 1 Centavo, KM179, 1944S, Bronze, 25.0 mm, 5.18 g
Philippines 5 Centavos, KM180a, 1944S, CNZ, 19.0 mm, 4.87 g
Philippines 50 Centavos, KM183, 1944S, Silver .750, 27.0 mm, 10.00 g

FilamCoins

I will be interested to see the final attribution. Plenty of USPI errors and varieties occured during the war years. Wouldn't be surprised if you came across another one. Good luck!

mirabela

ttt

Aegis3

Now that you have decided to sell, please, please tell us what you are basing your wrong metal diagnosis on. I certainly hope it's more than just the difference in color. You really do need a weight, especially since you have no obvious difference in diameter, and no apparent difference in thickness. And to me the color is still "coppery" which makes me have to question if it's an off metal at all.

mirabela

With the coin in hand, it is absolutely obvious it is not the right metal. As for *exactly* what it is, that will be somebody else's to figure out. I believe if you saw it in hand, you would agree it is unmistakeably not the ordinary metal. You would see the white beneath the toning, and you would not have the question you've got now.

If somebody gets the coin and feels it is not what they paid for, they can certainly return it. It's not as if anybody's going to get stuck with something. In any case, nobody has to bid if they aren't comfortable. And if it sold for the $6.00 bid it has right now, I would be perfectly happy at having spotted and flipped something unusual and interesting.

mirabela

ttt

mirabela

ttt

rhound1977

Making a SWAG and based on the photos only, I would say it is just toned?

mirabela

<< <i>I would say it is just toned >>



Not remotely. There are a number of bagmark-type scuffs on the coin, and you can see the metal is white. It certainly is a toned coin -- but it is not toned copper. That is the one and only thing I am absolutely sure of. If this is a copper coin, I will eat my hat and yours too.

I realize it pays to be skeptical, which is why someone is going to probably steal this thing at auction, but whatever it is, it isn't a normal 1 centavo on a copper planchet. I'd stake my house on that.

spoon

What some of us are getting at is--marketing aside, visual indicators and gut feelings aside--you're not providing anyone with any diagnostics.

Any coin store, pawn shop, jewelry store, etc will have an accurate scale and the staff will surely be willing to help solve your mystery if you politely chat them up.

Finding the weight will likely be a big step to properly IDing this. It'll also boost your auction's end price. Consider it an easy investment.

mirabela

OK, I weighed this on an Ohaus digital Scout Pro scale, and it gave the mass of the coin in question as 5.24g, while the ordinary one, also uncirculated, has a mass of 5.12g. That rules out the Washington quarter planchet. Any ideas what it rules in?

1jester

<< <i>OK, I weighed this on an Ohaus digital Scout Pro scale, and it gave the mass of the coin in question as 5.24g, while the ordinary one, also uncirculated, has a mass of 5.12g. That rules out the Washington quarter planchet. Any ideas what it rules in? >>



It appears to rule in the great likelihood that it's a regular, normal-planchet Philippines 1 centavo, given the weight being so close to the official 5.18 grams. Was your scale calibrated?

I think without looking at it in hand, with a good loupe, and doing a specific gravity test, you can't really say it's something else. Spiny gave a list of other planchet possibilities at the mint at that time, and it's not even close to any other one. I'm really sceptical that this coin is an off-metal strike. But it could be, I suppose!

mirabela

<< <i>Was your scale calibrated >>



It was tared to zero if that's what you mean. As for being calibrated in the sense of giving a correct mass for something of known exact mass, I don't know for sure although I would imagine so. It belongs to the high school chemistry lab (I'm an English teacher) & they run a pretty professional show here.



<< <i>without looking at it in hand, with a good loupe >>



That's what's got me convinced ... and I think it would you ... but it's obviously a moot point. If anyone would like to examine it to be certain, you know what to do. Heck, if you buy it and aren't convinced, I'll refund s&h if you identify yourself as a forum member.

crito

It's been plated, probably with silver but could be mercury too, so I'd be a little careful if I were you.

mirabela

I guess anything's possible, but the thing has mint frost -- it doesn't look, for instance, like a replated war penny. Plated stuff usually has that smooth, well, plated look.

You look at this coin, and the surfaces look like any other crusty original silver unc coin. If it is plated, it is the most convincing plated coin I've ever seen. But you could be right.

MD

mirabela

ttt

spinaker2000

Dang!!