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Photo experiment comparison images and POLL (actual discussion in last post)

mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
So here are the results of the post-processing experiment. there's quite a variety of output given that there was the same starting point. Personally I like mine the best image just for yucks, I'm making a poll to see how everybody else views pictures as accurate or not. Which picture do you feel is accurate based on the picture alone? Which one looks the most life-like to you?

#1
image

#2
image

#3
image

#4
image

#5
image

#6
image

#7
image

#8
image

#9
image

#10
image

#11
imageimage
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Comments

  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭
    Send me the coin to compare with the photos, then I will vote....
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    The object of this is to make a choice based on image alone. I just want to see what "look" people prefer in an image, whether accurate or not.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • I voted for the true image...I know which was mine..!!
    ......Larry........image
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    Voting is fairly even so far.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭
    ttt
  • LeeGLeeG Posts: 12,162
    I went with #6.
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    I don't want to reveal which is mine but I do want to say I'm curious at some of the interpretations. It seems the biggest variations are in terms of brightness and sharpness. Having seen the original image and knowing how the D200 interprets images and how NEF works in Capture and Camera Raw I was also very interested in seeing how people would interpret it.
  • robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭
    bump for the morning crew
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    I resisted the temptation to guess which one I took, not even certain if its there. Some drastic differences.
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    Did I miss your image? I don't remember seeing one for you. image

    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Like the dummy I am I posted it to the thread. image
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    I grabbed a couple out of the thread, but monday was kinda a hectic day for me. I probably just forgot that it existed.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I grabbed a couple out of the thread, but monday was kinda a hectic day for me. I probably just forgot that it existed. >>



    Sounds like my every day. image
  • richardshipprichardshipp Posts: 5,647 ✭✭✭
    I said 9 although I could have picked 4 as well.... what do I know?????????????? image
  • #4??
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭
    I like #1 and #8. Whichever one has the most accurate color gets the final nod.

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I like #1 and #8. Whichever one has the most accurate color gets the final nod. >>



    8 is nice, but it's too grainy for my tastes.
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    I'll post my opinion on the images tonight when I can actually see them (blocked from work). What do you like or dislike about the various images? I'd like to get some discussion going about what makes an image look accurate or not.

    Since there are some favorites in the voting what makes you like those as opposed to the others?

    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    I'll start some discussion and well see if I'm only talking to myself or not.image

    One of the reasons that I started this whole process is that since we are constantly seeing images of coins, which are viewed as accurate? Most of the time we only have an image to go from and the coin is in some distant safety deposit box. I feel that an image can be deemed "accurate" as an image by looking at the image alone, although it may not always be accurate to the coin.

    Personally for me an accurate image is one that looks more like a coin rather than an image of a coin. That may be an unrealistic expectation, but I think that it's valid to a point. Within that "look of realism" there are constraints made upon the amount of image contrast, color saturation, sharpness. Too much or too little of any of these factors and the image will slip away from that ideal.

    It all leads to this point. Various people will show images that various people deem "inaccurate". Those people shoot back saying that the coin looks just like the image in hand. My view on all of this is that I have a pretty good idea of what an accurate image is and if that image doesn't fit within the constraints of contrast, sharpness, saturation that exist in real life, I can deem the image "inaccurate" without ever seeing the coin. It looks like an "image of a coin" and not a "coin."

    Prove me wrong, flame away.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭
    I agree with your points but one other thing I like in a good image is the ability to clearly see the surfaces of the coin. Oversharpened or grainy photos to me are just as bad as blurry or undersharpened photos, or small photos. I also don't like images that have too many or too dark shadows, or too many or too large overexposed areas. I want to be able to see the detail on the coin in addition to seeing a realistic preview of the colors and look of the surfaces. This may also include lustre, but again I don't like to see so much contrast that it detracts from my ability to see the detail on the surface of the coin.
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    Those are more photographic preferences. I don't care what the image looks like as long as the image parameters are appropriate to the lighting. My own photographic preferences tend more toward higher contrast lighting which is kinda opposite of your preferences, and that's fine. a natural looking image is a natural looking image.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭
    That's true Mark, a good photograph can certainly be taken under a variety of different lighting parameters, but I think it's at least somewhat analogous to viewing a coin in hand. You wouldn't grade a coin under a single high-intensity pinpoint source because the lighting would be too harsh, the same reason you wouldn't photograph a coin under that lighting. The ability to judge surface detail as well as the overall look of the coin is highly dependant upon the lighting and the processing of the image to interpret the photograph on screen at the appropriate contrast levels. If one prefers a high contrast image, that's fine, but an image that is overly dark or overly light on a global scale is not ideal, IMHO.
  • shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    Mgoodm3 - show us a full image slab and I'll vote.

    Image #1 is my pick. But I don't see copper luster on any of these images. What's the deal with that?
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Mgoodm3 - show us a full image slab and I'll vote.

    Image #1 is my pick. But I don't see copper luster on any of these images. What's the deal with that? >>



    That's not the point. If I showed several pictures of a horse, one of which is processed appropriately and the others are "juiced" in one way or another, you'd be able to tell which one was accurate. Even if you've never seen this horse before, you still know what a horse should look like. The same thing should be able to be applied to coin imaging. Image accuracy is independent of the thing being photographed, it's either good image or it's not.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • stev32kstev32k Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭
    I have about decided that no one image, by itself, can accurately depict a coin. That's especially true for toned proofs. Even with the coin in-hand you're not sure what the "true" colors are because they change depending on how you tilt it to the light. Also, I don't believe I've ever seen an image of a toned proof that shows both color and luster at the same time time. High grade (AU and up) are not as difficult as toned proofs, but it is still very hard to get an accurate image with only one photograph.

    One photograph only shows the coin with one angle of light, one level of sharpness, one level of detail, and one exposure. If I ever start selling any coins again I'm going to include several photos with different lighting, different levels of detail, and different levels of sharpness. I believe that photos that are the size of a dinner plate make the coin look bad, while those that are so small that almost no detail shows up makes the coin look better.
    Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    >I have about decided that no one image, by itself, can accurately depict a coin

    Great! Because it is true. It's also true for almost any picture. People don't often appreciate this truth but no camera can replicate what goes on in the human mind. And then you factor in intentional choices such as composition, lighting, lenses used, sensor/film quality, etc. to see that it's more about the photographer's choices than the subject. And anything they wish to do is perfectly acceptable so long as they are honest about it and do not mis-represent what they have done.

    The famous example is Ansel Adams. People do not realize that he heavily manipulated his pictures to achieve his goal. His goal was for the image to convey his feelings and impressions more than documenting reality. The same is true for coins. No coin picture documents reality but an impression of reality. Honesty and probably ethics instruct us to tell people whether our pictures are an attempt at scientific level accuracy or how we view the coin (which may not represent reality).

    One last note about the images here. I'm a little surprised by just how far some of them are from the original image. I can see why it was done, though. It highlighted an attribute or two that they cared about more than another.
  • stev32kstev32k Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭
    <<The famous example is Ansel Adams. People do not realize that he heavily manipulated his pictures to achieve his goal. His goal was for the image to convey his feelings and impressions more than documenting reality.>>

    That's very true. He said something to the effect that it took 1/60 of a second to capture a scene and 60 days to turn it into an image. He was speaking about the time in the darkroom. However, Ansel Adams was talking about art and I think coin photography, especially coins for sale, should be about technical accuracy. If the coin is a work of art so be it, but doctoring a photograph to make a plain Jane coin look artistic is wrong - if it is done to deceive.
    Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
  • robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭
    ttt
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    I am far from an artist and technical accuracy is what I am always after.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    The original coin is on the darker side. My image is #6. But from my point of view, the coin doesn't really matter for this discussion. It was always for me about seeing what people look for and produce in an image, and not having the coin in hand probably helps ferret out the individual styles of the people the best. And those styles and preferences are all over the place.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    If you want to reveal which is mine, I'm OK with that. I don't know if you have a plan for that or not.

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