Gem Grading Company

FastWillie

Hi -I'm new at this and picked up a 1984 fleer Don Mattingly graded gem 10 - I know this isnt psa - is it worth re-submitting to psa



Thanks

Dave

FavreFan1971

We need a scan to make sure it is not trimmed. My guess is it will grade an 8 if you crack it if it is not trimmed, sight unseen

lawnmowerman

Hey Dave

Without seeing it its hard to say. Put up a scan and you will get plenty of advice. Being in a gem slab its most likely trimmed.

Matt

FastWillie

I'll try tomorrow at work - do not have scanner at home - does this company usally trim? if so then its worthless right?

thanks

Dave

mosaic

Why anyone would need to trim an 84 Fleer issue is beyond me... I mean, you really gotta bang those cards up to need to do that.

Otherwise, though, everyone else is right... scan it and post the image... GEM is regarded as a low end service with loose criteria... and the guy that runs the place sells the cards he slabs on eBay (conflict of interest)... You probably don't have a PSA 10 in there... as people have said, the likely PSA comparison is an 8... 9 if you lucked out, 7 if there's a wrinkle or something the GEM guy didn't notice or care about.

When you're buying graded, stick to PSA, SGC, BGS (BGS or BVG, not BCCG), and GAI. The rest just have lower standards, lame holders, and poor consistency. There's some contention as to Beckett's stance on sheet cut cards, but at least all of the major grading companies have policies against trimming.

FastWillie

I bought a big lot at an estate sale of graded cards - new they were off brand - but did get 6 from SGC also alot from PGS - FGS - PGI - and PGA

any comments on the off brands


thanks

Dave

WinPitcher

stay away from the off brands, if they are not trimmed they are prolly over graded.

steve

ripkenintheminors

<< <i>Being in a gem slab its most likely trimmed. >>



Or counterfeit. My GEM Grading WBTV Ripken counterfeit was what led in part to my site. Not saying it's fake, but I'd send it to someone else. Here's the SCD article I have posted on my site:


The following article was sent by Sports Collectors Digest (http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com) in its July 28, 2005 eSCD E-Newsletter:

SCD INVESTIGATION UNCOVERS COUNTERFEIT CARDS

A counterfeit card problem centering on 1980s Star Co. basketball, Kenner Starting Lineups, Sportscasters and minor league baseball has been the subject of an investigation by card dealer Steve Taft and Sports Collectors Digest.

Most of the counterfeits SCD or Taft have purchased have been graded by Gem or its “premier” Gem Elite service. Taft first noticed the problem on eBay about a year ago. Taft began making sample buys, and they proved the counterfeit status.

Gem Grading is owned and operated by Timothy Lorber, who also runs www.startcollecting.com. Lorber told SCD he was disappointed Gem Grading holders contained counterfeits and that he does not run the company with any intent but to maintain high-quality standards. “When we sell cards, we give a 100-percent, money-back, 30-day guarantee, from any of the sales that we do,” Lorber said, including www.startcollecting.com or his sportscardzz eBay ID.

SCD asked Lorber if the counterfeits seemed to originate from one person or place. He said there were submissions, and his suspicion is that these came from Gibraltar (Mich.). He clarified that he meant the area, not specifically the show. “I do not know for sure,” he added. “We do not want counterfeits in Gem holders,” Lorber said. “I would buy those back. It’s not Gem’s policy to do that; we have turned away people who have offered us money to put cards in the holders that were not real.”

SCD has purchased about 20 cards in Gem grading holders, and only four or five were counterfeits.

There have been sellers of Gem-graded cards on Yahoo!’s auction site as well, and those sellers offer a connection to the October, 2003, investigation by SCD. In that investigation, SCD discovered that counterfeits of 1963 Bazooka cards, 1921 W551 strip cards, 1931 W517 strip cards, 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread and 1952 Wheaties were being sold online by, among others, “Randy Howard” in Halifax, Pa. In this newer case, the Yahoo! Auctions seller IDs of “isellforu52296” and “consignmentsplus1” are both backed by the name “Randy Howard,” this time from Mechanicsburg, Pa. Both of those Yahoo! IDs have been inactive for the past several months, but when they were active earlier this year, those IDs offered not only the counterfeits described in this article, but also the Bond Bread and other similar cards that were targeted in that SCD investigation three years ago. Capitol Grading and FGA (Foremost Grading Authority) holders often contain fakes, too.

Taft said he believes these cards could be part of the largest counterfeit card operation ever. “A year ago, when it was rampant, there were multiple auctions going with counterfeit cards from multiple eBay sellers,” he said. “You could be talking maybe over $1 million in sales. That’s money that probably would have been spent with honest dealers.

“One of the cards that I saw fairly early in this was the 1989 Pittsburgh Greats Dan Marino. That’s about an $8 card. When you look at the fact that these guys have taken a card that will sell for $8-$10 and counterfeited it, that in itself is a huge message.” (Source: http://net.fwpublications.com/newsletters/NewsletterArchive/eSCD/7_28_2005.htm)

Stone193

Hi Dave

I bought an 89F Griffey RC - Gem - just to see if it was trimmed - only paid like 8 bucks for the card - I measured it, louped it for corners and potential counterfeit - and much to my surprise, it looked ok.

In general - any card that isn't from the big 4 is a potential crapshoot and hard to sell IMO.

If the price was right - I guess crack and potentially resubmit.

Looking forward to the scans
mike

EagleEyeKid

90% of it is trimmed or counterfeit.
10% is possibly real because when they were brand
new; submitters didn't hack them up yet. They just won't
cross evenly into the same grade .

WinPitcher

SCD has purchased about 20 cards in Gem grading holders, and only four or five were counterfeits.


only?

Steve

metalmike

IMHO the majority of cards not graded by the big 4 grading companies prolly have problems, but sometimes there is an exception. I'd like to see a company slab cards with problems described as such/ trimmed/ miscut/ wrong size ect- except fakes of course! If PSA offered a slab/authenication service with no grade I bet it would be good for us collectors- Buy the card not the slab. Mike

NewJerseyMeatHook

GEM - The Cadillac of Grading Companies?

Brian48

I've only had one GEM that didn't completely blow up on me. That was my '85 Topps Tiffany R.Clemens RC. It was graded as a "Gem 10 Pristine", but came back as a BGS 8.5 (back when BGS was a more stringent). Everything else came back as trimmed or counterfiet.

NickM

My comments on the offbrands you bought:

PGA - never heard of them. Stay away.
FGS - known for dramatic overgrading. Stay away.
PGI - owner of the company slabs and sells his own cards (I met him at a Hollywood Park show. He was telling someone else about how people actually are sending him cards for grading, because they must like receiving 10s). Stay away.
PGS - an offbrand that is trying to be legitimate. There is definitely some decent stuff in their holders, because they marketed heavily in the late 1990s/early 2000s, while the grading market was still shaking out. One good sign about the company is that there is a lot of VG to EX older cards of HOFers in their slabs. You're safer to assume the card wouldn't cross at grade, but at the right price it can be good. Stay away unless cheap.
GEM - one of the graders of choice for counterfeiters. Stay away.

Nick