Experimenting with MS70.....
kryptonitecomics
Posts: 9,185 ✭
Since it seems we have a thread every week dealing with Blue Indian Head cents or Blue Matte Proof Lincolns I thought I would take some time to educate myself on MS70 and do some experimenting. I purchased a bottle on the Internet last week and thought you folks might be interested in my initial findings.
I experimented on 3 different coins my first go around plus one store cardand the results are below. I apologize for not including pictures but my camera is not working at this time but once you hear the results I think you will find that at this present stage of the experiment simple descriptions will suffice.
Prior to playing around with any real coins I actually experimented on one of those big Eagle Eye Rare coins copper store cards that Rick gives out at shows etc. I don't know if it's pure copper or what the exact composition is but the one I had was starting to tone and I would consider it RB on both sides. Upon swabbing the coin with MS70 the coin immediately brightened up and turn back to its original red copper look. I'd say it looks fairly natural, but does have a slight pink tinge to it like most cleaned copper. I have been keeping an eye on it for the past few days and there is still no other colors present on the coin.
Coin #2
I just happened to have an 1800 large cent that was pretty well corroded with about Fair detail left on it. I originally got it and soaked the coin in olive oil several years ago in hopes that it might de-gunk it a bit but alas I think the ground took it's toll on the poor coin and there wasn't much detail left but I did remove the verdigris.
The minute I touched the coin with the q-tip soaked with MS70 the q-tip started to turn royal blue. The more I swabbed, the more blue appeared on the q-tip. I probably went through 6 or 8 q-tips before the color changed to purple. Again I used about a half dozen q-tips and they all turned dark purple as I cleaned the coin. I don't know how much the olive oil played a part in the results since it has been years since I cleaned the coin using it. What I can tell you is that the MS70 seamed to almost react with the oils on my skin and I started to get the sense that the purple color showing up on the coin could have somehow been caused by a combination of skin oils and MS70. Frankly I don't know but clearly the blue started coming off before anything but MS70 touched the surface but the purple......just not sure at this point.
The coin now has a dark slate grayish blue appearance to it vs. the Black coal look it had before. I am going to keep an eye on it to see if anything else happens as far as color changes.
Coin #3
1961 Proof Lincoln
This coin had some slight toning from years in it's original Proof Cello but was basically full red. The coin instantly got brighter once the MS70 was applied but I saw no color on the obverse or the reverse during or after the process. I did notice blue and hot pink/purple developed around the rim and it's still there as I look at the coin tonight. Looks very similar to the color change and bluing that occurs on copper tubing when it is heated up.
Coin #4
Last coin up was a 1959 BU MS64 Lincoln cent that I would consider RB as it had several darker toned patches on it. Upon application the toned spots immediately turned purple, but the rest of the coin just got brighter, again with a tint of pink to it. There is also a small amount of magenta mixed in with the purple and if the coverage was even as opposed to being patchy and spotty the coin wouldn't look half bad.
So I don't know if I solved any mysteries and I certainly haven't concluded one way or the other if you can make blue IHC's with the product but it was clear that I did see some color appear when the MS70 was introduced to the coin surfaces on all but the store card. As part of further experiments I might actually bring heat into the equation or I might dip the coins with Acetone prior to using MS70 on them.
If anyone has any suggestions or would like me to try something for them since I have the cleaner....just let me know and I will see what I can do.
I experimented on 3 different coins my first go around plus one store cardand the results are below. I apologize for not including pictures but my camera is not working at this time but once you hear the results I think you will find that at this present stage of the experiment simple descriptions will suffice.
Prior to playing around with any real coins I actually experimented on one of those big Eagle Eye Rare coins copper store cards that Rick gives out at shows etc. I don't know if it's pure copper or what the exact composition is but the one I had was starting to tone and I would consider it RB on both sides. Upon swabbing the coin with MS70 the coin immediately brightened up and turn back to its original red copper look. I'd say it looks fairly natural, but does have a slight pink tinge to it like most cleaned copper. I have been keeping an eye on it for the past few days and there is still no other colors present on the coin.
Coin #2
I just happened to have an 1800 large cent that was pretty well corroded with about Fair detail left on it. I originally got it and soaked the coin in olive oil several years ago in hopes that it might de-gunk it a bit but alas I think the ground took it's toll on the poor coin and there wasn't much detail left but I did remove the verdigris.
The minute I touched the coin with the q-tip soaked with MS70 the q-tip started to turn royal blue. The more I swabbed, the more blue appeared on the q-tip. I probably went through 6 or 8 q-tips before the color changed to purple. Again I used about a half dozen q-tips and they all turned dark purple as I cleaned the coin. I don't know how much the olive oil played a part in the results since it has been years since I cleaned the coin using it. What I can tell you is that the MS70 seamed to almost react with the oils on my skin and I started to get the sense that the purple color showing up on the coin could have somehow been caused by a combination of skin oils and MS70. Frankly I don't know but clearly the blue started coming off before anything but MS70 touched the surface but the purple......just not sure at this point.
The coin now has a dark slate grayish blue appearance to it vs. the Black coal look it had before. I am going to keep an eye on it to see if anything else happens as far as color changes.
Coin #3
1961 Proof Lincoln
This coin had some slight toning from years in it's original Proof Cello but was basically full red. The coin instantly got brighter once the MS70 was applied but I saw no color on the obverse or the reverse during or after the process. I did notice blue and hot pink/purple developed around the rim and it's still there as I look at the coin tonight. Looks very similar to the color change and bluing that occurs on copper tubing when it is heated up.
Coin #4
Last coin up was a 1959 BU MS64 Lincoln cent that I would consider RB as it had several darker toned patches on it. Upon application the toned spots immediately turned purple, but the rest of the coin just got brighter, again with a tint of pink to it. There is also a small amount of magenta mixed in with the purple and if the coverage was even as opposed to being patchy and spotty the coin wouldn't look half bad.
So I don't know if I solved any mysteries and I certainly haven't concluded one way or the other if you can make blue IHC's with the product but it was clear that I did see some color appear when the MS70 was introduced to the coin surfaces on all but the store card. As part of further experiments I might actually bring heat into the equation or I might dip the coins with Acetone prior to using MS70 on them.
If anyone has any suggestions or would like me to try something for them since I have the cleaner....just let me know and I will see what I can do.
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Comments
I still believe that all those graded and holdered cobalt blue and purple and reddish blue and purple Indians should all be considered bodybags as altered coins just as dipped out coppers would be. I also believe that any copper treated with MS70 should be bodybagged as altered color.
I wouldn't be surprised if you thumbed a proof copper and applied MS70 that the thumb would turn blue. (Not saying for certain, as I've never tried nor do I even own MS70)
Shane, do you think the parts of the rim on coin 3 toned that way because of where you touched it with your fingers?
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
<< <i>Sneeze on one pre-MS70.
I wouldn't be surprised if you thumbed a proof copper and applied MS70 that the thumb would turn blue. (Not saying for certain, as I've never tried nor do I even own MS70)
Shane, do you think the parts of the rim on coin 3 toned that way because of where you touched it with your fingers?
-D >>
I don't know but it is certainly possible. If I can get ahold of a latex glove I can try the experiment without letting my skin touch the coin and then report back.
The blue on the q-tip makes you wonder if something like oil is the culprit.
1. finger a coin (or add some oil) and apply ms70. Then see if it comes off with acetone.
2. finger a coin and apply acetone. Then see if it reacts with MS70.
I just wonder why? Is that the method it says on the bottle label or something?
Why not just dip the coins in MS70?
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
full browns with some green or purple already? it would be interested to see what it did with them
how about any brown proofs?
WS
<< <i>Sounds to me like it interacts with something in some toning layers, but not all toning. It doesn't appear to significantly interact with the copper itself other than a slight color change.
The blue on the q-tip makes you wonder if something like oil is the culprit.
1. finger a coin (or add some oil) and apply ms70. Then see if it comes off with acetone.
2. finger a coin and apply acetone. Then see if it reacts with MS70. >>
I'll have to try that Mark...I believe I have some acetone around.
<< <i>
It seems most folks are using cotton-tipped swabs to apply MS70.
I just wonder why? Is that the method it says on the bottle label or something?
Why not just dip the coins in MS70? >>
I was trying to keep my hands away from the stuff since I don't know what's in it and I can't seem to get it to wash off when it does get on my hands so I would think dipping the coin would make it even tougher to avoid skin contact?
<< <i>
do you have some older Lincolns in XF or so that have some toning?
full browns with some green or purple already? it would be interested to see what it did with them
how about any brown proofs? >>
Yes I have some older brown lincolns that I could try but nothing already toned. I don't have any Raw IHC's and I porbably wouldn't mess with them if I did