1797 George III twopence "restrike"

notwilight

My first trip to this forum. i usually hand out in US coins.

This coin was sold to me as an "early 20th century restrike". i thought "cool, an 100 year old copy of a 200 year old coin". When I got it home and out of the plastic it looks much like a 21st century copy. Anybody else familiar with this/these copies?

The cleaning lines are very light, almost invisible in hand, and maybe I can get a better photo that isn't so harsh and exaggerate them. I didn't even notice them until I looked through the viewfinder. I'm still learning my new camera.

edit: rephotographed with light parallel to cleaning marks and they disappeared.

Thanks in advance for your comments,
jerry

rhound1977

I'm not familiar with the restrikes, have both the 1 and 2 pence, does it have 'copy' on it?

Stork

Happy Birthday!



edited to add---oops, the birthday reference was in your other thread...

ajaan

I have seen these for sale before. I don't think it is 'early 20th Century', more like 1990s. Many of them come out of the UK so 'copy' wouldn't be on them.

Aethelred

Ten years old at most.

notwilight

Thanks. I think it's pretty well confirmed as moderrn.

As for the word copy, it seems to have a circled R on the shoulder. I guess that satisfies UK legal issues. --Jerry

ajaan

Ah! the circled R might mean 'Restrike'. I hadn't noticed that at first.

coinkat

Reproduction

rwyarmch

$29.90 at this site

http://ioffer.com/bi/ventmktinc--GP-1-1797-Two-Pence-Cartwheel-Warrens-C-COPY--1.1-16.18-7359785

rwyarmch

Here's an example of a "late Soho" (early 19th century) striking of the cartwheel twopence.

coinpictures

Now *that* is a nice restrike... how much do those usually go for compared to the original strikes?

notwilight

very nice. I think I'll revisit this purchase. --jerry

rwyarmch

Peck takes quite a few pages to describe the confusion surrounding production of copper coins at the Soho mint
and thereafter. (Reminds me a bit of the Gobrecht dollar history at the US mint.) My experience is that proofs
of the 1797 cartwheel 1P or 2P pieces whether early Soho, late Soho, patterns or restrikes don't come up
that often. Modern reproductions can be had anytime.

I can't gather much about relative rarity from the PCGS pop report but NGC's report shows 26 1P in proof of which
8 were designated restrikes and 8 2P in proof with none deisignated restrikes. (I know some 2P pieces submitted
to NGC were too large to encapsulate and Peck numbers weren't always shown on the holders.)

Perhaps there's a British coin historian on the board who could comment.

1 Pence NGC

1797SOHO 1P MSBN 35
1797SOHO 1P MSRB 3
1797SOHO 1P PFBN 5
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1123 PFBN 1
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1132 PFBN 1
1797 BRONZED 1P P-1115 PFBN 1
1797 BRONZED . 1P P-1118 PFBN 1
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1083 PFBN 1
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1086 PF 2
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1090 PFBN 1
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1095 PFBN 2
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1096 PFBN 1
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1109 PFBN 1
1797 SOHO G.B. 1P P-1119 RESTRIKE PFBN 1
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1121 PFCA 1
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1134 RESTRIKE PFBN 1
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1135 RESTRIKE PFBN 2
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1138 RESTRIKE PFBN 1
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1142 RESTRIKE PFBN 2
1797 G.BRITAIN 1P P-1148 RESTRIKE PFBN 1

Twopence NGC

1797SOHO 2P MSBN 32
1797SOHO 2P MSRB 1
1797SOHO 2P PFBN 5
1797SOHO 2P P-1065 PFBN 1
1797SOHO 2P P-1069 PFBN 1
1797 2P P-1067 PFCA 1

notwilight

Update: I took prints of the photo above in along with a print of the real eary 20th century restrike and showed them to the dealer who thanked me and said he would pass them on to the consignor. Then I traded the overly beautiful coin pictured above for this original one. I think it has a little PVC damage so I'll be soaking it in some solvent soon. Thanks for everyone's help. --Jerry

Stork

I like the new/old (I mean the one in the post right above mine) one better too .


Cathy

rwyarmch

I think you're a lot better off with a real coin! Many of the 2P pieces come with terrible rim dings. If it cleans up, it'll be a nice thing to have (and can serve as a paperweight if necessary!)

1jester

That's a pretty nice looking coin!!

shirohniichan

What constitutes a "real" restrike? If original dies are used, I can see calling the coins "restrikes." If from transfer dies they should be "reproductions."

Teg

<< <i>What constitutes a "real" restrike? If original dies are used, I can see calling the coins "restrikes." If from transfer dies they should be "reproductions." >>



Hi,

Peck has four designations for these.

Currency - for circulation minted in 1797, like notwilight's second coin.

Early Soho proof - a proof produced before or during 1797 by the Soho mint.

Late Soho proof - a proof produced after 1797 by the Soho mint probably 1801 - 1830.
(rwyarmch's superb coin)

Restrike - a proof produced by Taylor as late as 1880s - using the old Soho dies - but not the same presses.

Prices for all the proofs including Taylors tend to be similar.

The first coin in the thread - very poor modern reproduction.

Teg