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Retaliatory negative
taxbuster1040
Posts: 350 ✭✭✭
Connected to the thread by "D" below. ... Of the sellers who wait to leave feedback until the buyer has left feedback for you- How many of you leave the buyer a negative feedback if the buyer leaves you a negative feedback regardless of the circumstances? The reason I ask is that i have 2 negatives out of 270 on ebay. Coincidently, these are both by people who left negative to me after I had to leave negative to them. Seems to me those of you who wait to leave the feedback only do so to be able to stick it to anyone who finds you less than adequate.. Or can you site times where someone has justifiably left you a negative and you still left them a positive AFTER they left you the negative? Your honesty would be appreciated here.
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<< <i>How many of you leave the buyer a negative feedback if the buyer leaves you a negative feedback regardless of the circumstances? >>
My guess would be 100% whether they admit to it or not. Maybe 99.9% at best.
I leave feedback as it's deserved.
And for the record, I don't do business with sellers that leave retaliatory feedback. This is a form of extortion.
<< <i>Seems to me those of you who wait to leave the feedback only do so to be able to stick it to anyone who finds you less than adequate. >>
For many sellers, that is precisely the case.
<< <i>And for the record, I don't do business with sellers that leave retaliatory feedback. >>
Ditto.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>How many of you leave the buyer a negative feedback if the buyer leaves you a negative feedback regardless of the circumstances? Your honesty would be appreciated here. >>
Honestly? If I honestly screwed up the transaction, I would not leave the buyer a retaliatory neg. I probably wouldn't give them a postive, either -- most likely just no feedback at all.
However, if the buyer doesn't give me a chance to "make it right", then the negs will fly.
I've never gotten a neg, but my buyers sometimes forget to leave feedback. As a buyer myself, I try to withhold feedback until I've gotten it, as an incentive for the sellers not to forget. That didn't work with seller Bestcrystal, who obviously waited many days until I gave in and left my feedback before responding.
Nobody ever wants to be first, especially when they intend to leave a neg. I call this game Feedback Chicken, and it isn't very amusing.
<< <i>As a buyer myself, I try to withhold feedback until I've gotten it, as an incentive for the sellers not to forget. >>
I can certainly understand the ambiguities about when to leave feedback for the seller, but for a buyer there should be none of this: once you have received your item and you are satisfied, the transaction is complete and you should leave positive feedback. A buyer withholding positive feedback is lame.
right, etc. Most of the sellers I've dealt with left feedback first, except for those that seemed to know they were playing it
fast and loose. Funny how that is. They got my payment and then shipped. But as soon as a I sent a probing email as to
"what the hay," they turned the horns back. Oddly, all my negs were from sellers who didn't place FB early. It was as if they
knew they did something not quite right and were waiting for my response. Harbor Coin did it twice on overgraded schlock and
failure to honor a stated return privilege. Other sellers sent stained and spotted coins when they stated otherwise. All were
deserving and I received the obligatory retaliatories. 100% in my book.
I've always struck the first blood, and the sellers followed up with 2nd blood. It has NEVER gone the other way. I pay promptly
every time. It's when I got junk for real money that starts the process. One thing if seller says it's junk or no fluff. But when
they state something is an upgrade shot and it turns out to be a low grade spotted piece of swill, that's different. Best thing for
a seller is state nothing and let the "crappy" and "poorly taken" photo do all the talking (lol).
roadrunner
<< <i>and the sellers followed up with 2nd blood. It has NEVER gone the other way. >>
Like I said, 100% whether they admit to it in public or not.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Wally
I live and learn....now I post feedback when the auction is complete (which I feel is when the buyer receives the item)
I expect the same whether I am a seller or buyer, BTW.
And to answer your question: No, I've never retaliated to anyone who gave me a neg...For the record, I only had one in over 400 transactions.
If someone leaves me a neg, depending on the situation, there's a good chance they will get one as well (unless attributed to my own error or stupidity)
"La Vostra Nonna Ha Faccia Del Fungo"
The last negative I got was clearly retaliatory. The written email communications from him and the paypal records, clearly proved this. I notified email that I got this retaliatroy negative and they responded with a "We feel your pain" email to me, and told me the seller was a bad boy, but this WAS NOT A FLAGRANT violation of ebay rules. I wrote ebay back saying their system clearly left something to be desired. That it is obvious people wont leave negatives if they are afraid it will impact their own ratings and ebay should fix this. Got another "we feel your pain letter". For whatever reason, ebay chooses NOT to fix the current system.
<< <i>I recall complaining to eBay six year ago about retaliatory feedback. Their response to my letter was something along the lines that retaliatory negs are a badge of honor.
<< <i>Their response to my letter was something along the lines that retaliatory negs are a badge of honor.
I don't know about a "badge of honor", but in a way I'm happy I got my one retaliatory neg. If I hadn't got it, I'd be sitting at a perfect 100%, and I'd be freaking out every time I had to leave a neg. Now that my neg cherry has been popped (so to speak) I'm much more free-wheeling with my feedback.
<< <i>
<< <i>As a buyer myself, I try to withhold feedback until I've gotten it, as an incentive for the sellers not to forget. >>
I can certainly understand the ambiguities about when to leave feedback for the seller, but for a buyer there should be none of this: once you have received your item and you are satisfied, the transaction is complete and you should leave positive feedback. A buyer withholding positive feedback is lame. >>
And you're right. It is lame. I should have said I tried it this last time to see if it would make a difference, but it didn't. I'm at 37, they're at thousands, and the bottom line is I have a lot more interest in getting feedback than they do. Oh well, I'm not going to play Feedback Chicken anymore
in sending a coin out to a buyer. Once I discovered my error, I apologized, got the coin right out and
included a freebie for their troubles. I did not leave a retaliatory neg.
I leave positive feedback when payment is received for probably 99% of my auctions. On the few where
I think there is the potential for trouble based on emails or demands by the buyer, I wait to leave a
positive until they have done so for me.
<< <i>Now that my neg cherry has been popped (so to speak) I'm much more free-wheeling with my feedback. >>
Everyone should get a negative straight out of the box. This would solve a lot of problems.
JJ
Two sellers have received neutral feedback from me and in return I got neutrals from them. To get a negative from me a seller has to really blow it by not shipping the coin or item. If they ship the item and its a piece of poo they still have honored 50% of the auction so that is why I leave neutrals.
This is how I have done it on ebay for 5 years and it seems to work for me. 830+ positives with still no negatives.
Ken
with merchandise that I am not happy with. I have been
fortunate as I have been able to amicably settle differences
where we could part friends with mutual good feedback. I have one
outstanding case where the seller wanted me to get a postal order for
a 14 dollar sale. They would not take my check even though I didnt mind
waiting untill the check cleared their bank. I told the seller if that was the
case to consider the sale null and void. When threatened with a neg, I said
do what you have to and I will follow in kind. I havnt heard anything for a week.
Camelot
Even though they say they wait "until the deal is complete" I think what you just said is actually the case. I was kinda late with a payment a while back and deserved a neg for it. I went ahead & went first and left the seller good feedback because he upheld HIS end of the deal but I was expecting to receive a neg.
I have never left a neg ot received one but I'm not scared of one, it won't affect my life one bit.
If I followed that philosophy, I would have left a number of negative feedbacks immediately upon receipt of a bad coin. However, giving the seller a chance to make things right always makes sense. If the seller is adamant that they didn't send a coin with a huge fingerprint hidden on the reverse of the slabbed coin, or that the coin has no spots when it does, then they deserve a neg. Sorry, but I believe in truth in advertising at any time when photos are not perfectly clear.
It goes without saying that if you are happy upon receipt of said coin, then a positive is left immediately. This whole thread is about transactions when both parties are not satisfied initially. I have found that sellers who leave positive FB upon receipt of payment are almost always above board. It is the ones who wait for the seller's FB (or email) who know they skate on a thin ice in their transaction. Occasionally they run up against buyers who are as knowledgeable as they are or won't take any BS...and that's when the negs fly.
One should of course withold a neg FB until all means to achieve satisfaction have been exhausted. If negatives were given when they were truly deserved then a good FB rating on ebay would be about 95% or better. The turds would lurk in the range of 50-75% feedback. Unfortunately Feedback inflation is excessively high. Remember that a team of 3 professional graders only grade a coin right the first time 80% of the time on average. Yet we all expect 99+% satisfaction on ebay. Amazing really.
Definition of "correct grading:" assemble 10 top experts on that particular coin area (such as Morgan dollars), and reach a consensus grade - say 7 out of 10 call the coin MS65. 3 call in MS64. Each had as much time as they needed to make a decision. It's then graded MS65 and it is the "correct" grade for the time in history. Everyone certainly understands how a TPG falls short of this ideal. But each coin certainly has a correct grade imo based on market expertise.
What the TPG's assign on a 10 second looksee is just a single data point on the way to a correct grade. What an ebay seller claims on a raw coin is about as far from this as you can get.
roadrunner
Retaliatory negs suck, and they destroy the feedback system. If you're in the wrong, you should just take your lumps and move on.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions
retaliatory negs are left by the thin-ice sellers to try and protect what is left of their reputations. They don't want the report of a bad transaction on their resume and in most cases, they will badmouth the seller to make it looks as if it was the seller's inexperience that caused the problem. In fact, of the couple negs I have, each seller commented that I knew nothing, was a newbie, and who was I do question their or the TPG's grading? Frankly, more of us should question the TPG grading any chance we get. To the other potential buyers reading the FB, all they see is the "experienced and knowledgeable" dealer making light of a dumb newbie. Whose side do you think they take? Only when dozens of such FB appear are sellers held accountable for their actions.
I received a retaliatory neg when a seller refused to honor a return privilege when he offered me one. He failed to answer my emails from the day I received the coin to 30 days later. I finally negged him for non-response and not honoring a return. He then negged me and said I failed to return the coin promptly. This is the type of fast/loose bs that sellers have to be held for. Any seller worth his salt will work things out. The ones that don't just want your cash and realize 90% of screwed buyers will just eat it. Sorry Harbor Coin if I brought you guys up again.
roadrunner
Tit4Tat, or Dis4Dat
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I leave feedback for the buyer as soon as payment is made! As far as responding to a negative feedback, I guess I will have to wait to get a neg. before I answer that. I've been on eBay for 6 years and have never given or gotten a negative.
<< <i>I wouldn't ever leave a neg just to be retaliatory, but if I was hit with a surprise negative about a problem I didn't know about or didn't have the chance to make right, that would certainly warrant a neg to warn other sellers. If there was a problem I knew about, did my best to work it out, couldn't, and got a negative I would leave either a positive, neutral, negative, or no feedback depending on the individual circumstances. >>
I kind of agree with you there. If the seller wasn't given the chance to make the situation right, then that's not a proper use of a neg. It would be helpful if buyers had to demonstrate that they had tried to contact the seller about the item. It should work through the regular Ebay queue. When you buy something, the next step that comes up (after paying for the item) is leaving feedback. IMHO, the next step that should come up is "Contact Seller?". That would allow you to contact a seller if there's a problem, before leaving feedback. IMHO, the only time you're justified leaving an immediate neg when you're the buyer is if the item you receive is not the item you bought, and it's an obvious bait-and-switch (e.g., you bid on a slabbed MS-66FB 1916 Mercury dime, and what you get is one slabbed at MS-60 or dated 1940). In that kind of case, where it's an obvious attempt at fraud, a second chance at making it right is less warranted, because you're giving a fraudulent seller another chance to pull the same trick on someone else.
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
My Ebay Auctions