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Adjustment marks on 17th/18th century coinage

I believe this is an interesting topic, yet perhaps misunderstood by collectors. I realize that these are part of the minting process to adjust weight, but more often than not they simple look like graffiti to me. As a collector, we are fine tuned to pass over problem coins, so the acceptance of adjustment marks can feel downright wrong at times.

Unfortunately, I do not have much to contribute other than lots of questions. I was wondering if some of the forum members might indulge us with your vast knowledge on the subject and post some educational examples. The questions running through my mind include:
Are adjustment marks more prevalent in certain countries?
Are adjustment marks more common in certain denominations?
In broad terms, what was the general timeframe for the majority of adjustment marks? (Perhaps too general of a question)
Do adjustment marks generally impact the price of nice coins?
How are adjustment marks viewed by the big TPGs?
What methods/tools were most commonly used to make the adjustment marks?

Comments

  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How are adjustment marks viewed by the big TPGs? >>


    From what I see, acceptable on early US coins, not acceptable on many World coins.

    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

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    Don
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>How are adjustment marks viewed by the big TPGs? >>


    From what I see, acceptable on early US coins, not acceptable on many World coins. >>



    Doesn't surprise me. If you look at PCGS and NGC graded U.S. coins versus world coins of similar eras (especially 18th and early 19th-century pieces), the bar is a LOT higher for world coins, especially in circulated grades. I see early U.S. copper in slabs that make me guffaw.

    TPG grading of U.S. material *seriously* suffers from "market-friendly" gradeflation. I have a copy of ANA grading guidelines from 1989 or so, and grades were at least a grade more strict back then.

    Great from a selling standpoint. Material I bought back in the 80s and early 90s not only has appreciated, but is now a grade higher.

    Sucks from a buying standpoint. I can't tell you how many time I've looked at a U.S. half cent or large cent and said to myself "No [CENSORED] way that's an XF!!!" only to compare to other auctions and the current ANA grading guidelines and end up saying "Oh... I guesss it *IS* an XF... now."

    P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack... image
  • bosoxbosox Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭✭
    Adjustment marks were quite common on gold coined at the Royal Mint up until the middle 1800's, because they adjusted the blanks by hand filing, which affected the struck surfaces. After that they still adjusted gold panchets, but did so with a machine that filed the excess gold off just the edges of the planchets before striking it in the collar, instead of hand filing it. The reeded added during the striking process covered up the evidence of filing machine. In addition, the Mint's technology got better about controlling the thickness of the blanks, making adjustments to gold less necessary.

    Adjustment marks are also common on early British silver until about 1815. During the great recoinage after the Napoleonic wars, the British government devalued silver slightly, so the silver was nominally worth somewhat more than its intrinsic metal value. After that there generally was little need to adjust silver.

    Hope this helps.
    Numismatic author & owner of the Uncommon Cents collections. 2011 Fred Bowman award winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson award winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca award winner.

    http://www.victoriancent.com
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Personally I find true adjustment marks a plus on coins. For me, it is a window into the actual manufacturing of the coin and a link to the people and process that made them. It gives the coin more history and a better story in my opinion. I have no coins with adjustment marks but wouldn't hesitate to nab one up if one became available in a series I collect.
  • newsmannewsman Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Are adjustment marks more prevalent in certain countries? >>



    Naples and Sicily -- almost every silver coin I've seen has adjustment marks, some quite bad. Don't know how it affects the grading, though.
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know that large 19th century coppers are often found with adjustment marks. I own a couple of copper Mexican 8 Reales from 1813-1814 ("SUD") and both display adjustment marks. I'll post a picture tonight. I have also encountered adjustments on 19th century large Russian coppers.

    I also own a 1772 Baden Taler (some of you might remember this thread. I still can't conclusively say if those are adjustment marks - so it's currently at ANACS being evaluated/graded. Should have the results in a week or so (can't wait to take some pictures of it with my new toy).


  • << <i>I know that large 19th century coppers are often found with adjustment marks. I own a couple of copper Mexican 8 Reales from 1813-1814 ("SUD") and both display adjustment marks. I'll post a picture tonight. I have also encountered adjustments on 19th century large Russian coppers. >>


    Why would copper coins have adjustment marks? Maybe the Russian pieces because they were full intrinsic value coins, but a copper 8 reales? Most copper coin were profit makers for their respective governments because the face value is higher than the metal value. Since the metal was well below the face there was little reason to hold the weight to extremely tight specifications like they did for the precious metals

    Are you sure the marks seen on these coins aren't just from poor planchet productin and the marks were not fully wiped out by the striking? Especially in low tech industrial areas, copper strip production often resulted in planchets with rough and/or scratched surfaces (Worn roller or worn edges on draw benches). If the pressure of the strike isn't great enough these surface features can still be seen.
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Are you sure the marks seen on these coins aren't just from poor planchet productin and the marks were not fully wiped out by the striking? Especially in low tech industrial areas, copper strip production often resulted in planchets with rough and/or scratched surfaces (Worn roller or worn edges on draw benches). If the pressure of the strike isn't great enough these surface features can still be seen. >>



    It could be roller marks and I will try to post some pictures tomorrow. Copper is proving harder to capture correctly.
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