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Article on Mcgwire and hall! i agree YES vote

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he did save baseball! he did do roids also...but how are we sure no one else in the hall never did? alex sanchez..ryan franklin. g mota??? if they all did and got busted. who's to say who did and who didnt!

I hope big mac gets in the hall this year.

Comments



  • << <i>link

    he did save baseball! he did do roids also...but how are we sure no one else in the hall never did? alex sanchez..ryan franklin. g mota??? if they all did and got busted. who's to say who did and who didnt!

    I hope big mac gets in the hall this year. >>




    He did not "save baseball" that is nonsense. The man is pond scum and deserves to live in a pond.
  • kuhlmannkuhlmann Posts: 3,326 ✭✭
    The man is pond scum and deserves to live in a pond.

    yeah and brett farve did class 1 drugs also. so is he a better person?
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭
    Muscle relaxers are the same as steriods?
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
  • kuhlmannkuhlmann Posts: 3,326 ✭✭
    pain killers i believe are class 1 just like roids cocaine etc... Just making a point. drugs are drugs right?
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 9,248 ✭✭✭
    You cant deny that after the strike, baseball was in a slump. The home run race between McGwire and Sosa brought a new life to baseball. People became much more interested and baseball thrived bigger and better than ever.

    Steroids or not, it brought the attention MLB desperately needed at that time.
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>Steroids or not, it brought the attention MLB desperately needed at that time. >>



    I agree completely...the owners, the commissioner, the players, everyone looked the other way when it was apparent players were juicing. Let's not play the moral police now and keep out McGwire because now everyone wants to play the 'holier than thou' attitude.
  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let's see...

    Fergie Jenkins got busted for marijuana and is in the HOF. Marijuana is illegal in the United States.

    Mike Schmidt has admitted using amphetamines (they're illegal in the United States) in the 1970's, and also said he may have used steriods if they had been around while he was active, and he's in the HOF

    Not to mention the countless others who probably also used something (possibly/probably illegal in the United States) while playing to keep themselves going or help their performance, with no proof or evidence ever appearing.

    Mark McGwire might have used "something" (maybe illegal), but we don't know what or when. There's just NO evidence either way, except the Andro, which was legal in baseball and legal in the United States Justice System. So let's keep him out of the HOFimageimageimage


    Sounds to me like we need to remove Fergie's and Schmidty's busts from the HOF, and while we're at it, start investigating EVERY OTHER HOFer and HOF eligible/worthy player ever! If any current HOFers turn up as having done ANYTHING ILLEGAL, TAKE THEIR BUSTS OUT OF THE HOF! image

    FORGET THAT!!!!!

    MARK MCGWIRE DESERVES TO BE INDUCTED INTO THE HALL OF FAME DAMN IT, SO DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Steve
  • << Let's not play the moral police now and keep out McGwire because now everyone wants to play the 'holier than thou' attitude.>>

    Oh me God. I agree with Axtell. Well said. If Buddy boy and baseball really wanted to be serious and police drugs then they would do mandatory blood tests. Can't hide those nasty little growth hormones then.

    [Edited to correct typos]
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,029 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Babe Ruth was rumored by some to have used horse steroids. I have never seen where these rumors were substantiated in the least.

    Babe Ruth it could be said "saved" baseball. Baseball would have bounced back from the strike with or without Mark McGwire.

    I really don't think he's getting in the Hall on this first ballot, but he'll get in, no doubt about that, likely next year or the year after.
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,029 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Frankly, I think it was his lying at those hearings which has actually hurt his current induction chances more, maybe much more, than taking the steroids, or whatever he took.
  • << I think it was his lying at those hearings>>

    I don't think McGwire lied. He just didn't answer the questions which led everbody to believe.....
  • Wow mark this day I have to agree with axtell also
    We all enjoyed the home run race with big mac and sosa . It was to me llike hereing my dad talk about mantle and maris. Also lets not forget it not only helped Baseball it helped or hobby immensly. How many people came back to the hobby or got into the hobby back in 98. I remeber digging out the cases of 85 topps i bought for 500 and selling them for 2500 or that 8.00 85 topps mcgwire that skyrocketed to 265.00. . or that common 10 cent sosa rookie that we all dug out of our junk boxes to turn a nice profit
    To try to play moral police now is hypocritical . He deserves to get in and thats that and when SOSAs time comes he will deserve it too
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,694 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How many people came back to the hobby or got into the hobby back in 98. I remeber digging out the cases of 85 topps i bought for 500 and selling them for 2500 or that 8.00 85 topps mcgwire that skyrocketed to 265.00. . or that common 10 cent sosa rookie that we all dug out of our junk boxes to turn a nice profit

    Flipping cards for profit should not be used as supporting evidence for enshrining a player into the HOF, though.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • halosfanhalosfan Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭✭
    McGwire deserves to get inducted.

    Where is the controversey regarding Roger Celemns? How does he get a free pass?



    Bonds got caught and should be kept out
    Looking for a Glen Rice Inkredible and Alex Rodriguez cards
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    McGwire may or may not have been juicing...there's no proof he actually did other than heresay and rumor.

    It was a steroid era in which everyone was juicing - even the pitchers he was hitting. So to discount his HRs on his steroid use, and not discount the pitchers which were doing the same exact thing, is tragically flawed.

  • What kills me is that all the people that vote one in or keep them out didn't say much during the time Mac and Sammy had their "magical" year. Those two-faced bastiges get to write all the stories and provide "insight" into the game when the run to Maris and beyond was going on, without so much as a wink and a nod to what was/might have been going on with some players...and then now, get to take those guys to the woodshed.
    I believe the writers are going to keep these guys out, some maybe forever. But it's that holier than thou attitude and fact that not much has been made til after these guys are out of baseball. Funny, you don't want to mess with the player so you don't ruin the quote or the inside info you get from them.
    Baseball management, the players, writers and fans are all guilty for the state of baseball. That is obviously a generalization because some knew and probably said something...but for the most part, ostriches with heads in the sand.
    Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Tom Seaver, Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock player collector
  • McGwire and Sosa will both get in.............Mac will have Victor Conte introduce him and Sosa's Hall of Fame bust will be corked!
  • WabittwaxWabittwax Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭
    Here's a thought.

    Many people ask "How many of his home runs would have fell on the warning track had he not juiced?"

    But what if he didn't juice. He was smaller. Yet, all the pitchers he was facing were on the juice. Would we add hypothetical Home Runs to his total since it was an unfair disadvantage?

    Take Larry Walker for example. Played from 1989-2005, right smack through the steroid era. He had 383 HR's, I'd say right now he's boderline at best for HOF. Assuming he was clean, should we call it 500 HR's since he had to face pitchers that were juicing and then make him a lock for the HOF?

    Where will the spectulation end?

    I say take the stats and go with it since so many players at that time were playing on the same level. He dominated pitchers that were juiced up so I think his HR's count.
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Where is the controversey regarding Roger Celemns? How does he get a free pass? >>



    He doesn't really. It's just that there has never been any anecdotal evidence linking Clemens to any type of drug use (other than painkillers) so it's hard to make any kind of case, even an unofficial one. Remember the idiotic blog article about him and Damon last year that took a life of it's own? It's always been inuendo and rumors, no leaked testimonies, no official statements, no skeletons in the closet, no slips of the tongue from old teammates or trainers, no nothing. Even the recent rumors regarding the redacted names from Grimsley affidavit has been shot full of holes by all parties involved and denied by Grimsley himself. On top of that, even Canseco has always been careful to preface anything he says by saying "I have never seen Clemens take performance enhancing drugs, but the following is "my opinion"". That said, I think Clemens is the player most hunted with the lowest amount of evidence.
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>
    He doesn't really. It's just that there has never been any anecdotal evidence linking Clemens to any type of drug use (other than painkillers) so it's hard to make any kind of case, even an unofficial one. Remember the idiotic blog article about him and Damon last year that took a life of it's own? It's always been inuendo and rumors, no leaked testimonies, no official statements, no skeletons in the closet, no slips of the tongue from old teammates or trainers, no nothing. Even the recent rumors regarding the redacted names from Grimsley affidavit has been shot full of holes by all parties involved and denied by Grimsley himself. On top of that, even Canseco has always been careful to preface anything he says by saying "I have never seen Clemens take performance enhancing drugs, but the following is "my opinion"". That said, I think Clemens is the player most hunted with the lowest amount of evidence. >>




    There's never been anything linking Sosa to any type of drug use - you ready to call him clean, too?

    There's never been anything linking McGwire to any type of drug use (other than Andro, and it was not a banned substance by the FDA at the time) - you ready to call him clean?

  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>
    There's never been anything linking Sosa to any type of drug use - you ready to call him clean, too?

    There's never been anything linking McGwire to any type of drug use (other than Andro, and it was not a banned substance by the FDA at the time) - you ready to call him clean? >>

    >>



    What the hell are you babbling about? You either didn't read what I wrote or chose to deliberately overlook the point. It's not a question of being clean or tainted. The question was why Clemens was getting a free ride, in which I submit that he isn't. It's just that there has NEVER been anything tangible (official or unofficial) for anyone to make a case out of.

    With Sosa, there were the congressional hearings in which he was asked to take part. With McGwire, you have published passages from Canseco's book that outline in detail EXACTLY what he did, not to mention the fact that he practically confessed during the same, fore-mentioned hearings. This is what I meant by "anecdotal evidence". As a writer, reporter, lawyer, whatever, you need something to go on, whether it be concrete or even circumstantial, it doesn't matter - You need something. In the case of Clemens, there isn't any, but that hasn't stopped folks from trying.
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