After reading this thread, my respect for Stacks dropped greatlly. Unfortunately, this story is probably not that unusual.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Surely someone here (saintguru?) could tell if this coin hit the PCGS Pop Report recently. I don't imagine these are graded every day.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
From the price realized, this looks like a coin that should have been slabbed before trying to sell it - from the price realized with the buyer's fees ($40K+) whoever bought it believed it to be a MS65 (Greysheet bid on a MS65 in Sept 06 was $43,400) and it might have even graded MS66 which is a six figure coin). It could even have even been one of the several proofs that are known to exist ( I know a dealer who picked off a proof at a FUN show a couple of years ago - there are certain die characteristics that ID the proofs).
I disagree. What if the coin had graded 64 the first time through? Not being an expert, the consignor would have been quite happy with the grade and left money on the table vs what it brought raw.
I once paid $74k for a raw trade dollar at the Stacks sale. I graded it MS65. The first time through, the TPG's disagreed. As a slabbed MS64, the coin might have fetched around $50k. The consignor picked up another $25k because the coin wasn't slabbed.
TDN is spot on, and the phenomenon isn't exlusive to Stack's. It also happens on eBay. Watch proof and SMS sets that appear to have cameo coins in them. A 1967 SMS set, for example, that has a cameo half that probably grades no better then MS65 will always bring more than a PCGS graded MS65CAM.
Very interesting story! I'm saddened to see that one of Stack's representatives tried to steal that coin from you for a paltry lowball price. That's a nice SUV you ended up with for the money you got from the sale, but I hope you saved enough to pay the taxes you're going to owe. Hmm.. a gift with a value of $35,000. That's gonna hurt!
This is really deplorable -- 30% commission on a VERY liquid Saint. I guess certain "respectable" dealers may become "ethically challenged" if they think no one is looking.
Comments
<< <i>Great Story and now I hope you put enough away to put gas into that pig!! (I know I have one!). >>
Marty, I think he qualifies for your new page
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Even better if your grandchildren do!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
And let's see if the coin would have been graded, who know it may have even went for more.
This is a great example of the dealers screwing over someone with a raw coin. They undergrade when they buy and overgrade when they sell.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
I wanted someone to say "sorry we messed you around".
Never happened and that's OK.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Wow.
PS- now when anyone admires the new SUV, tell 'em you bought it for twenty bucks. No, really!
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Thanks for sharing
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I disagree. What if the coin had graded 64 the first time through? Not being an expert, the consignor would have been quite happy with the grade and left money on the table vs what it brought raw.
I once paid $74k for a raw trade dollar at the Stacks sale. I graded it MS65. The first time through, the TPG's disagreed. As a slabbed MS64, the coin might have fetched around $50k. The consignor picked up another $25k because the coin wasn't slabbed.
Russ, NCNE
BTW, the picture is clear enough that I can say that the coin is absolutely not a proof. Of course we knew that already based on the 11.5K offer.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Interesting thread.
Russ, NCNE >>
Yes indeed. Thanks for bringing the story back to the top for those of us who missed it the first time.
Now lets see - $11,500 vs. $40,250............good cop; bad cop......................
Sounds like a bifurcated market to me..........all within the same coin!
I knew it would happen.