Submission Help

TCoins

Take it easy on me, I'm new at this. I just submitted my first set of coins to PCGS for grading with great expectations. It turns out ... I love crap! I submitted 9 coins (mostly Morgans) and 2 came back cleaned and 2 altered surface. I think I could use some help.


1. Can someone explain the difference between cleaned and altered surface.

2. Can someone explain the easiest ways to detect cleaned or altered surfaces.

3. Finally, do some of you more experienced collectors still get surprized by a body bag?

Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.

As in poker, the lessons in this game are expensive.

Newcomp103

I'm sorry this happened to you...you just have to look at a LOT of the kinds of coins you want to buy...after a while, your eyes will realize what looks "natural" and what doesn't...I am certainly not an expert...I had trouble seeing cleaned coins for a long time. If you are unsure, ask someone in numismatics that you trust to inspect it before you buy. Good luck!!!

lkrarecoins

I agree with newcomp103:

the only way to avoid getting BB'd is to familiarize yourself with as many coins as possible. The more you look at, the more you will learn.
Eventually, the shady coins will stick out like a sore thumb. I've hired numismatists to look through my coins and help play the odds on submissions.
You will get your money back many times over and it will be a great learning lesson as well. They can explain to you why the coin makes or does not make a certain grade. They will also be able to point out problems and you can ask to have them show you. You may want to consider this, especially in the beginning.

Sometimes, even the pros are stumped by BB returns...You just need to put the odds in your favor, because there are always surprises around the corner.

Good luck on your future submissions

TCoins

Thanks for your comments. I thought I could detect cleaning, maybe I only see the very obvious. Anyway, I will try to work harder on this. Thanks.

Kimchee

Let me take a wild, crazy guess. Did you buy the coins raw on Ebay?

kimchee

410a

I who know so much about altered surfaces and the TPGs. We
both screw up. Yes, it takes a long while and much study to pick up
on altered surfaces, whizzing is an example, cleaning is different
you can see it easier than some of the stuff that is going on these
days.
Example: I bought a nice 1914 Buff 5 in AU58 in an ANACS holder
because I liked the color etc. Thought it was nicer and needed to
round out my "free eight grade special" from PCGS so I cracked the
coin sent it in and it was the only coin that came back "altered surfaces."
I since have looked very closely at the coin, it is not the
color, and have found it to be altered in the indian headdress.
I have not a clue how it was done it is so subtle.
I once cracked an early bust quarter out of an NGC 62 holder, again
I thought better than graded. I sent it to NGC. They sent it back
artifical toning. I complained showed them the certificate. They said:
"We have been concerned as of late about some of the toing on
coins" They reholdered it for me in the 62 holder.
Surfaces and color in this business is getting tougher and tougher
to detect. For the most part I don't crack out anything. I just collect
buying from good dealers.

P.S. My opening sentence "I know so much about" is a bit of an
joke to be taken lightly. The TPGs do know the coins, but even they
are run by people who are, er ah, oh yeah, only human.

Kimchee

Compare the PCGS coins you have to the bodybagged ones. The bodybagged ones probably have a high shiny-ness to them that the PCGS ones don't.

I was in the same boat twice on PCGS submissions, all from raw coins bought on Ebay. First submission 10 coins economy, 7 came back bodybagged. Second submission sent 12 coins regular submissions, 9 were bodybagged. So I lost money not just with PCGS but on the coins too. Expensive lesson. Now, until I get better at grading and spotting cleaned coins, I'm only buying PCGS, NGC, ANACS, or ICG graded coins.

Kimchee