Can someone give me a history on Topps Heritage baseball?

MikeyLikesIt

I've been back in the hobby for about 5 months now after a 10+ year absence and while my focus has been mainly on vintage stuff, I'm starting to get the urge to collect some new stuff as well - not the ultra high end shiny stuff, just some good, basic sets like I used to buy in the 80's. I find myself drawn to the Topps Heritage cards because it seems that they combine both of these things (vintage and new stuff) and they seem to be rather affordable.

Could someone give me a little background on these sets? All I really know about them is that it looks like Topps started this set in 2001 (modeled after the '52 set). Does Topps plan to progress through the years recreating prior sets infinitely? What's the best way to go about buying some of these (2006 going back to 2001)? Did they have factory sets or did they come in boxes only? What do most of the collectors of these sets collecting them for? Inserts? Complete sets?

Any info is greatly appreciated!

-Mike

Basilone

<< <i> Could someone give me a little background on these sets? All I really know about them is that it looks like Topps started this set in 2001 (modeled after the '52 set). Does Topps plan to progress through the years recreating prior sets infinitely? >>

----- They will continue as long as the product is profitable.


What's the best way to go about buying some of these (2006 going back to 2001)?

--- Least Expensive/Easiest: Buy completed sets off of eBay.

--- Most Fun: Buying boxes and trading with other collectors. I recommend this method when collecting the current year's set. Many collectors on this board trade with one another...if you are going back in years....I would recommend buying Master Sets off of eBay.


Did they have factory sets or did they come in boxes only? - Boxes only (Hobby, Retail, Retail Blaster Boxes) - No Factory Sets. Some years had "hobby only" box topper card.


What do most of the collectors of these sets collecting them for? Inserts? Complete sets

--- Most Collectors will try to put together a what the hobby considers a "Master Set" (base cards, SPs, and the 3 insert sets). Hardcore collectors will put together sets of the Parallels (chrome, chrome refractor, game used, autos, etc.).

fsjeter

Mike,

The set is released in February/March every year and they do continue to use the vintage designs. The 2007 Topps Heritage will mirror the 1958 Topps Set. Topps even distributes similiar variances and nuances to the original set. For instance, the 2001 Topps Heritage (which mirrored the 1952 Topps Set) had the black back variations and the 2005 Topps Heritage (which mirrored the 1956 Topps set) had the white back variations. I'm betting there will be Yellow Letter variations in the upcoming set.

It is distributed in hobby and retail wax packs/boxes. There are several subsets (New Age Performers, Flashbacks, Then & Now) as well as a parallel chrome set (numbered to the year of the original set, ie. the 2007 heritage chrome set should be numbered to 1,958) There is also a chrome refractor set that is numbered to the last three digits of the the original set (958) and a black bordered chrome set numbered to the last two digits of the original set 58). They also randomly insert tiered relic (Clubhouse Collection and Flashback) and autograph (Real One, Clubhouse Collection, Flashback, Team Topps, and ultra rare 1/1 cut signatures (usually 2 per year)). There are also a good number of Short prints each year as well.

All-in-all, it is one of the most popular sets on these boards. Many here collect it. Do a search for Heritage on this board and you will find several threads with scans of some of the great pulls.

Scott

Edited to add: Ditto what John said. He is the checklist guru for the set.

mccardguy1

You all forgot the most important thing about the heritage sets.....the wax packs come with gum!! (individually wrapped to protect the cards of course!! )

Great sets...great gum.what more could we need!

Stone193

BTW, did anyone notice that they had both sugar and sugarless gum last year?

mike

Estil

<< <i>You all forgot the most important thing about the heritage sets.....the wax packs come with gum!! (individually wrapped to protect the cards of course!! )

Great sets...great gum.what more could we need! >>



Wow, that's really something to chew on, isn't it? Anyway, how come they're called Chrome Refractors as opposed to Finest Refractors just like in the good ol' days? As for the original topic poster who asked if these will continue, well, it seems like these Heritage sets are about the only 2000s era sets that seem to hold their values well, so that's got to be a good sign.

jradke4

finest and chrome are two different printing technologies that Topps uses, I think would be their answer to your question. As they have Topps, Topps Chrome and Finest. Topps and Topps chrome generally are the same photo printed thourgh different tech's. Finest is a whole new card printed even a different way. Not to mention that most of the chrome cards are "chrome" in color. Refractors just mean how the light is refractor after the refractor tech is used.

Estil

<< <i>finest and chrome are two different printing technologies that Topps uses, I think would be their answer to your question. As they have Topps, Topps Chrome and Finest. Topps and Topps chrome generally are the same photo printed thourgh different tech's. Finest is a whole new card printed even a different way. Not to mention that most of the chrome cards are "chrome" in color. Refractors just mean how the light is refractor after the refractor tech is used. >>



Can someone explain to me precisely how Finest and Chrome cards are made differently? I just always figured the Topps Chrome sets were actually made with the same "Finest technology", but with a different name so as not to confuse it with the regular Finest set.

MikeyLikesIt

<< <i> Boxes only (Hobby, Retail, Retail Blaster Boxes) - No Factory Sets. Some years had "hobby only" box topper card. >>



So what's the difference between Hobby, Retail and Blaster Boxes? I assume hobby is the way to go?

Thanks for all the info, truly appreciated. I'm looking forward to picking up a box or two of '06 and can't wait for '07 to come out.

MikeyLikesIt

<< <i>as well as a parallel chrome set (numbered to the year of the original set, ie. the 2007 heritage chrome set should be numbered to 1,958) There is also a chrome refractor set that is numbered to the last three digits of the the original set (958) and a black bordered chrome set numbered to the last two digits of the original set 58). >>



So what are the odds of pulling these? Does anyone actually try to put together a refractor set? Seems like a daunting task.

Any good websites out there as an additional resource with checklists, etc? Seems like I saw one a few months ago.

Thanks again,
Mike

fsjeter

<< <i>

<< <i>as well as a parallel chrome set (numbered to the year of the original set, ie. the 2007 heritage chrome set should be numbered to 1,958) There is also a chrome refractor set that is numbered to the last three digits of the the original set (958) and a black bordered chrome set numbered to the last two digits of the original set 58). >>



So what are the odds of pulling these? Does anyone actually try to put together a refractor set? Seems like a daunting task.

Any good websites out there as an additional resource with checklists, etc? Seems like I saw one a few months ago.

Thanks again,
Mike >>



The odds vary from year to year but the difference between Hobby & Retail is pretty minimal. The biggest difference is the two 1/1 cut signatures. They are only available in the Hobby boxes. The odds for the 2006 set are as follows:

Set/Hobby/Retail
Chrome/1:9/1:10
Refractor/1:33/1:34
Black Refractor/1:328/1:328
Auto or Relic/1:36/1:36 (Includes Clubhouse Collection and Flashback, Dual Relic/Auto cards are much more scarce)
Real One Auto/1:366/1:366
New Age Performers/1:15/1:15
Then and Now/1:15/1:15
Flashbacks/1:12/1:12

If you PM me your email address, I'll send you an excel sheet that has all the checklists so far.

Scott

fsjeter

<< <i>

<< <i>finest and chrome are two different printing technologies that Topps uses, I think would be their answer to your question. As they have Topps, Topps Chrome and Finest. Topps and Topps chrome generally are the same photo printed thourgh different tech's. Finest is a whole new card printed even a different way. Not to mention that most of the chrome cards are "chrome" in color. Refractors just mean how the light is refractor after the refractor tech is used. >>



Can someone explain to me precisely how Finest and Chrome cards are made differently? I just always figured the Topps Chrome sets were actually made with the same "Finest technology", but with a different name so as not to confuse it with the regular Finest set. >>



It's my understanding that it is the same technology. The difference being that Finest is a stand alone set while Chrome is identical in design to the regular Topps set. I could be wrong though!

Scott

MikeyLikesIt

PM sent Scott. Thanks.

pandrews

magellan

<< <i>The odds vary from year to year but the difference between Hobby & Retail is pretty minimal. The biggest difference is the two 1/1 cut signatures. They are only available in the Hobby boxes. The odds for the 2006 set are as follows: >>



Retail cases/boxes tend to sell for considerably less than Hobby during the Prebuy season (late winter/early spring). The blaster boxes have 8 or 11 ? packs depending on year/venue while the Hobby & Retail boxes usually have 24 packs.

Basilone

<< <i>The blaster boxes have 8 or 11 ? >>



8 packs (7 packs plus 1 Bonus pack).

Stone193

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>finest and chrome are two different printing technologies that Topps uses, I think would be their answer to your question. As they have Topps, Topps Chrome and Finest. Topps and Topps chrome generally are the same photo printed thourgh different tech's. Finest is a whole new card printed even a different way. Not to mention that most of the chrome cards are "chrome" in color. Refractors just mean how the light is refractor after the refractor tech is used. >>



Can someone explain to me precisely how Finest and Chrome cards are made differently? I just always figured the Topps Chrome sets were actually made with the same "Finest technology", but with a different name so as not to confuse it with the regular Finest set. >>



It's my understanding that it is the same technology. The difference being that Finest is a stand alone set while Chrome is identical in design to the regular Topps set. I could be wrong though!

Scott >>


Scott

I know nothing about the printing but I think you're correct on this one.

IMO, "chrome inserts" are finest cards - in fact they had "mystery finest" inserts back sometime in the early 2000s - and I don't see any difference between them and the "chrome" inserts that were in the base brand Topps packs.

mike

Stone193

<< <i>Does anyone actually try to put together a refractor set? >>


Mikey

I did the Topps Heritage Chrome (THC) set of 110 cards for the 2004 and 2005 sets.

It's quite a task - in fact I think the 04 set is short 2 chromes - a lot of trading and helps from friends like Lothar, Softparade and a few people that done post anymore. I believe Geordie helped me also.

The 58T design this upcoming year is gonna be sweet IMO!

mike

Peetie

<< <i>

<< <i>Does anyone actually try to put together a refractor set? >>


Mikey

I did the Topps Heritage Chrome (THC) set of 110 cards for the 2004 and 2005 sets.

It's quite a task - in fact I think the 04 set is short 2 chromes - a lot of trading and helps from friends like Lothar, Softparade and a few people that done post anymore. I believe Geordie helped me also.

The 58T design this upcoming year is gonna be sweet IMO!

mike >>



Hey Mike-

Just because we don't post anymore, doesn't mean we're not still around.

Mark

TNP777

<< <i>

<< <i>Does anyone actually try to put together a refractor set? >>


Mikey

I did the Topps Heritage Chrome (THC) set of 110 cards for the 2004 and 2005 sets.

It's quite a task - in fact I think the 04 set is short 2 chromes - a lot of trading and helps from friends like Lothar, Softparade and a few people that done post anymore. I believe Geordie helped me also.

The 58T design this upcoming year is gonna be sweet IMO!

mike >>

present and accounted for, sir!

Yes, tis the time of year to begin speculating about the upcoming Heritage set. Who was it that did all the work about the relationship between the current Heritage and the set it was emulating? We should see some more of the multi player cards that Ryan (Lothar) loves so much. What other cool things about the '58 set will be included? Weren't there some white letter/yellow letter variations? Beyond doing the '58 Dodgers set (without variations) I have never given the '58 set much research or time.

Geordie

262Runner

<< <i>Does anyone actually try to put together a refractor set? >>



I put together both the Chrome set and the Refractor set. I also have all of the Auto's, Collectors Club game used cards and Stadium Seat cards. This was a great set to build. It takes many boxes and more trading to complete all of these sets. I have sold and traded away all of my extra cards....

Can't wait for next year. These are the best "Modern Sets" to build.

262

magellan

Wasn't it Pharber who did the spread on the Heritage vs. original similarities? Hopefully he's back for next year's Heritage. Mikey, you'll like it.

MikeyLikesIt

<< <i>Mikey

I did the Topps Heritage Chrome (THC) set of 110 cards for the 2004 and 2005 sets.

It's quite a task - in fact I think the 04 set is short 2 chromes - a lot of trading and helps from friends like Lothar, Softparade and a few people that done post anymore. I believe Geordie helped me also.

The 58T design this upcoming year is gonna be sweet IMO!

mike >>


Sounds like quite a chore indeed, Mike. I can't wait to get involved in some trading when the '58's, err '07's, come out. I anticipate becoming hooked on these sets. I have been able to pick up 4 hobby boxes of the '06 off ebay the past few days (probably won't buy any more unopened '06). I may buy some bulk lots to try and build a set of the '06, open a box or two, and save the rest of them for a rainy day.


<< <i>I put together both the Chrome set and the Refractor set. I also have all of the Auto's, Collectors Club game used cards and Stadium Seat cards. This was a great set to build. It takes many boxes and more trading to complete all of these sets. I have sold and traded away all of my extra cards....

Can't wait for next year. These are the best "Modern Sets" to build.

262 >>


WOW. Congrats! And I agree, it looks like these will be fun sets to build.


<< <i>Mikey, you'll like it. >>

joestalin

There is quite a history right on the pages of this very forum. I remember a thread back in 2001, small but informative. I actually came
on there and said that these cards were silly looking. A Warren Spahn real one auto changed that. 2002 was much bigger, and ever
since there has been more and more jumping ship. I don't know how many posts have been archived,but those threads are the most
valuable documents a heritage nut could have.

As far as 58 goes, we will sit and wait and hope once again that topps doesn't screw it up. I rememeber the pics of the big boarders
last year. I emailed Clay at topps and told him that would be a BIG mistake and luckily the boarders came out looking good. Of course
some of us are ink crazy and others are condition crazy. There are master set builders and chrome builders and those great museum
collections of auto sets and game used sets. I remember the day when I thought a buy it now for 50 bucks on the Alex Gordon cut
out cards was waaaaaaay too much...now its worth almost more than the entire set!

I remember Craig back in 2001, and buying the cornerstone of my heritage auto set, old Willie Mays. I remember pulling the Mathews bat
redemption and remember my two back to back year retail arod auto pulls from searched packs. Don't we all love that the autos
are on card AND not searchable!

..and of course the great traders here...Loth, and Geordie and Mike..kuhlmann and great offers...Johnny B and his spreadsheets. Don't we all
just wish it was 1958 again and we know then what we know now? I guess topps heritage will have to do!

Thanks to all.

Kevin
(heritage freak)

joestalin

wow, you want history, look what I found....an original 2001 heritage post....am I the only guy left from this thread?? Here is how it
started!

Start of Heritage


Kevin

MikeyLikesIt

<< <i>2002 was much bigger, and ever since there has been more and more jumping ship. >>


By "jumping ship", I assume you mean jumping ON it rather than off it?

Stone193

<< <i>Wasn't it Pharber who did the spread on the Heritage vs. original similarities? Hopefully he's back for next year's Heritage. Mikey, you'll like it. >>


David

Pharber is a wealth of info - so is Kevin aka JS.

John Basilone gave us the best spread sheets - very generous - and also has a wealth of info about Heritage.

mike

joestalin

ahh yes, people were jumping on!

Thanks
JS

Stone193

<< <i>There is quite a history right on the pages of this very forum. I remember a thread back in 2001, small but informative. I actually came
on there and said that these cards were silly looking. A Warren Spahn real one auto changed that. 2002 was much bigger, and ever
since there has been more and more jumping ship. I don't know how many posts have been archived,but those threads are the most
valuable documents a heritage nut could have.

As far as 58 goes, we will sit and wait and hope once again that topps doesn't screw it up. I rememeber the pics of the big boarders
last year. I emailed Clay at topps and told him that would be a BIG mistake and luckily the boarders came out looking good. Of course
some of us are ink crazy and others are condition crazy. There are master set builders and chrome builders and those great museum
collections of auto sets and game used sets. I remember the day when I thought a buy it now for 50 bucks on the Alex Gordon cut
out cards was waaaaaaay too much...now its worth almost more than the entire set!

I remember Craig back in 2001, and buying the cornerstone of my heritage auto set, old Willie Mays. I remember pulling the Mathews bat
redemption and remember my two back to back year retail arod auto pulls from searched packs. Don't we all love that the autos
are on card AND not searchable!

..and of course the great traders here...Loth, and Geordie and Mike..kuhlmann and great offers...Johnny B and his spreadsheets. Don't we all
just wish it was 1958 again and we know then what we know now? I guess topps heritage will have to do!

Thanks to all.

Kevin
(heritage freak) >>


Cool Kevin!

I'm looking forward to the upcoming 'HUNT FOR HERITAGE' - I'm gonna pick up one case of hobby - I just gotta figure out from whom? I may approach the shop near me and see if he'll give me a good price?

mike

Stone193

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Does anyone actually try to put together a refractor set? >>


Mikey

I did the Topps Heritage Chrome (THC) set of 110 cards for the 2004 and 2005 sets.

It's quite a task - in fact I think the 04 set is short 2 chromes - a lot of trading and helps from friends like Lothar, Softparade and a few people that done post anymore. I believe Geordie helped me also.

The 58T design this upcoming year is gonna be sweet IMO!

mike >>



Hey Mike-

Just because we don't post anymore, doesn't mean we're not still around.

Mark >>


Hi Mark

Good to see you - I was talking about Bearsnum - e.g. - who I had some great conversations with - was planning to visit SA from El Paso and then seemed to fall off the face of the map.

mike

TNP777

heh - who buys Heritage for the thrill of putting together a really great set or cool on-card autos or the great game-used cards? BAH!! Behold the real reason that Heritage rocks:



That's just last year's gum. I finally had to clear it out of my office - it should have a half-life of 10 years or so, right? I'll be passing this stuff out to the kids at church for a looooong time.

Geordie

joestalin

The gum in 01 heritage is still very sweet. Topps had a mix in 2006, but it looks like the sugarless crap is out and the good gum
is here to stay!! Now if they would only loose the gum wrapper we would be in business..arn't wax stains part of the hobby?

9 out of 10 dentists prefer you to collect topps heritage!!

JS

Basilone

It is nice to talk about Heritage again. Remember back in 2005 we all put together a list of the white backs card by card. Topps denied it but it was eventually accepted by the hobby publications as a variation.

The great part about Heritage is all of the guys you end of trading with. People try to help each other out and are more concerned about getting you the cards you need rather than getting equal value.

ArchStanton

I have already spoken with one of the local shops about '07 Heritage. He will give me a good price on a case.

I am really looking forward to the white letter/yellow letter variations. I think Topps started doing seperate All-Star cards in 1958. They were all high numbers. There is also at least one misspelled name in the set that Topps corrected.

I think I heard that the '58 set was not well received when it was originally released. I say that it is a sharp looking set.

I can't believe that this has started already.

MikeyLikesIt

OK so with an eye on the '07's that will be coming out, what would be a good number of unopened boxes to pick up? My goal would be to build a set through buying some unopened stuff and filling in the holes through trades, ebay, etc. I'm not sure if the better half would agree to buying a whole case. 4 boxes? 6? Do dealers give pretty good discounts on cases that make it worthwhile and thus easier to convince the Mrs.?

Mike

TNP777

I don't think four boxes will get you close enough to a set. If the collation is right, you should be able to complete a base set, but the SPs will kill you. IIRC, last year SPs were seeded every other pack, so even with even collation, that'll only yield you 48 of the 100 or so SPs needed for the set. However, this year's Heritage football is yielding a SP in every pack, so that would be great if that was the new standard. I for one would love that.

Geordie

magellan

Mike , I have to agree with Geordie. I opened right around 2 cases last year and still ended up a few SP's short of the master set and probably a dozen chromes short. I have filled all the holes except for 5 chromes.
I also have had a bazillion base dupes and quite a number of SP & chrome dupes that I've traded or sold on eBay. You can pick up a base set quite cheap $25-35 on eBay.

Have great fun with it, if collation IS good you may be able to come close to a set with 6 boxes or so and lot's of trading.

Dave

paleocards

Mikey -- I posted the message pasted below on May, 5, 2006, after I completed this year's Heritage set. It'll give you an idea of how I put together the '05 & '06 sets and how much it cost.





"I thought it may be interesting to share my completion stats and costs for the last two years of Topps Heritage. In both 2005 and 2006, I completed my version of the Master Set: 495 card base and SP set (actually 494 cards this year since I didn't go after the Gordon cut-out), 35 card basic insert sets (FB, NAP & TN) and 110 chrome set (109 this year).

2005 SPs:
from boxes - 68 (61.8%)
from trades - 24 (21.8%)
singles/lots bought - 18 (16.4%)

2006 SPs:
from boxes - 51 (46.4%)
from trades - 21 (19.1%)
singles/lots bought - 38 (34.5%)

2005 inserts:
from boxes - 21 (60.0%)
from trades - 11 (31.4%)
singles/lots bought - 3 (8.6%)

2006 inserts:
from boxes - 21 (60.0%)
from trades - 11 (31.4%)
singles/lots bought - 3 (8.6%)

2005 chromes:
from boxes - 29 (26.4%)
from trades - 23 (20.9%)
singles/lots bought - 58 (52.7%)

2006 chromes:
from boxes - 17 (15.6%)
from trades - 13 (11.9%)
singles/lots bought - 79 (72.5%)

Incredibly, after adding up my expenses on Heritage for this year and last, I realized that I spent nearly identical amounts, even though I spent more on boxes in 2005 and more on singles in 2006:

2005 costs:
boxes - $513.00 (6 hobby, 5 blaster)
singles/lots - $287.86 (77 cards)
TOTAL = $800.86

2006 costs:
boxes - $435.31 (3 hobby, 7 blaster, 1 12x2 retail)
singles/lots - $365.45 (122 cards)
TOTAL = $800.76

I'd be interested to hear what others' experiences have been putting together Heritage sets. How much did you spend, what proportion did you complete by pulls out of boxes, trades and/or buying singles on eBay?

One thing I didn't do, that I'm sure others have, was to sell dupes or big pulls to finance more purchases (I couldn't part with the Duke Snider 2/25 auto seat relic I got last year or the Dusty Rhodes 8/57 red auto I pulled this year)."

MikeyLikesIt

paleo-
Excellent information - very helpful. Thanks. When you factor in the big pulls you got, looks like you made out pretty well, huh? Is it generally accepted among the Heritage collectors that a 2006 "complete set" is 494 cards and not 495 because of the Gordon cutout?

Thanks again to all for the help,
Mike

Estil

I would love to collect these neat Heritage sets, but all of them seem to go for a least $200-$250 each, and if I want to spend that much on a set of cards, I'd rather have NRMT/MT 1976-79 original Topps sets instead of reprints. But that's just me.

originalisbest

That's the interesting thing about Heritage though - not a "reprint" so much as an "homage". I agree, they're cool sets - but am I lame for only wanting a "basic" one? The really really really complete ones - frankly - frustrate me a bit as a collector. Ah well, the challenge is definitely there, though!

ArchStanton

but am I lame for only wanting a "basic" one?

You can try it, brother, but it won't happen. I started in 2005 with the intention of putting together a base set. I was not into artificially short printed cards, autographed cards, cards with chunks of bats and seats in them, and I sure as hill didn't want and shiny cards.

I dumped about a mortgage payment on 2005 Heritage to put together the basic master set with SPs and subsets. I did the same last year and put a whale of a dent in a refractor set as well. I am working on a local dealer for a good price for the new 12-box case for '07. I'll see where the Heritage road leads. I don't think I'll try the chromes or refractors with the longer odds this year. You can bet I'll spend a bunch of money and hours of time again this year.

I'm looking forward to refreshing old PM lists with new trades.

originalisbest

Heh! See, that's what I was afraid of. But I do think it's been a great concept on Topps' part. Let me ask you a dumb question then - other than these boards - what's the best reference to have when trying to make sure you have all the cards in a "master" set?

86nova

Not a dumb question at all. IMHO, this thread will end up being your best source of information. People readily share knowledge continually regarding the Topps Heritage cards. Answering questions, trading, and the sharing of information is commonplace among these collectors.

originalisbest

I'll just keep checking the thread then. I do believe it's a great concept.

Stone193

<< <i>I would love to collect these neat Heritage sets, but all of them seem to go for a least $200-$250 each, and if I want to spend that much on a set of cards, I'd rather have NRMT/MT 1976-79 original Topps sets instead of reprints. But that's just me. >>


Estil

These are not really reprints.

These are like doing the regular base brand Topps set of current players but with a cool printing style - this year that will be the 58T design.

This is my chance to identify with baseball - "today" - and it's current players and RCs.

The inserts, parallel sets, chromes and autos are just a bonus for me.

mike

Stone193

<< <i>That's the interesting thing about Heritage though - not a "reprint" so much as an "homage". I agree, they're cool sets - but am I lame for only wanting a "basic" one? The really really really complete ones - frankly - frustrate me a bit as a collector. Ah well, the challenge is definitely there, though! >>


Original

I can't argue with your premise.

But, for heritage nuts like me - and there's loads here - it's the chase for the Master Set that brings excitement anew - each and every year.

And, you're not lame - practical would be more like it.

mike

Stone193

<< <i>I'll just keep checking the thread then. I do believe it's a great concept. >>


John aka "Basilone" has provided an excel spreadsheet every year.

It's time consuming but John has been generous enough to share it.

If you pm him, he'll send you a copy when he makes it up.

mike

originalisbest

Thanks for the help Mike. Merry Christmas too.