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Has anyone seen a genuine Trade Dollar from a eBay seller in China?

PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I've seen numerous posts concerning obvious fake Seated Liberty Dollars, Trade Dollars, or early dollars (Flowing Hair and Draped Bust) from eBayers in China. Do they ever sell real ones? Under the circumstances, a PCGS slabbed coin couldn't be trusted and I would assume the pic was stolen. Any comments?

Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

Comments

  • pontiacinfpontiacinf Posts: 8,915 ✭✭
    you have a better chance of meeting Mao Zeadong in personimage
    image

    Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
  • bhartman35bhartman35 Posts: 1,398


    << <i>I've numerous posts concerning obvious fake Seated Liberty Dollars, Trade Dollars, or early dollars (Flowing Hair and Draped Bust) from eBayers in China. Do they ever sell real ones? Under the circumstances, a PCGS slabbed coin couldn't be trusted and I would assume the pic was stolen. Any comments? >>



    My gut instinct would be to never buy a dollar coin from China. It's a shame, because you hate to see an entire nation lose out, but the odds are so heavily stacked against you that in this case I don't think there's a choice.
    If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.

    -- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows


    My Ebay Auctions
    image
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    or a 1971-S clad Ike
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>or a 1971-S clad Ike >>

    Well, that one says it has COPY which makes it no different than the replicas being made by lots of private US-based mints.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,894 ✭✭
    I am recently back from 5 1/2 months in Macau, while there I traveled to China and Hong Kong and found cast forgeries of U.S. coins everywhere. I would not buy a coin from China without TP verification that it is real!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am recently back from 5 1/2 months in Macau, while there I traveled to China and Hong Kong and found cast forgeries of U.S. coins everywhere. I would not buy a coin from China without TP verification that it is real! >>

    There have been some pretty entertaining TPG slabs coming out of China as well as TPG CoAs.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>or a 1971-S clad Ike >>

    Well, that one says it has COPY which makes it no different than the replicas being made by lots of private US-based mints. >>



    How would you say, "copy" may have been added "post struck/cast produced fake coin?" And that the original coin was mean't to decieve...but what got me thinking was, "Why produce a fake 1971-S Ike to begin with?"
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,192 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I've purchased a real trade dollar from a seller in China. I wouldn't recommend trying it, tho.
    Early Dollar Set
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,631 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I've numerous posts concerning obvious fake Seated Liberty Dollars, Trade Dollars, or early dollars (Flowing Hair and Draped Bust) from eBayers in China. Do they ever sell real ones? Under the circumstances, a PCGS slabbed coin couldn't be trusted and I would assume the pic was stolen. Any comments? >>



    My gut instinct would be to never buy a dollar coin from China. It's a shame, because you hate to see an entire nation lose out, but the odds are so heavily stacked against you that in this case I don't think there's a choice. >>



    It would appear that the government of the People's Republic of China takes the official policy that any decitful act on the part of any of its citizens that results in the taking of capital from foreigners is a good thing.

    If this means that we cannot trust anyone in China selling anything, so be it.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's not just the government of the PRC. The US government also generally looks the other way on PRC issues like this. They have more important things to try and convince the Chinese to do.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>or a 1971-S clad Ike >>

    Well, that one says it has COPY which makes it no different than the replicas being made by lots of private US-based mints. >>



    How would you say, "copy" may have been added "post struck/cast produced fake coin?" And that the original coin was mean't to decieve...but what got me thinking was, "Why produce a fake 1971-S Ike to begin with?" >>

    I'm not sure what you are getting at but COPY is generally added post strike/cast on US private issues that I've seen.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082 ✭
    How did Longacre's quest for gold coins in China turn out?
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Raw? No. I've seen them sold in PCGS and NGC holders from seemingly reputable sellers in Hong Kong, but nothing raw.
  • agentjim007agentjim007 Posts: 6,256 ✭
    I purchased a genuine chopped marked T$ from China on ebay (sent it to ANACS). I sweated it out getting the coin then sending it to ANACS. Made a few bucks but wouldn't do it again.
  • 123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭
    There is a seller on Ebay in Taiwan that sells PCGS, NGC and ANACS graded Trade Dollars. I have bought once from him with on problems.
    image
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    Informative link on Chinese Fakes


    Hey zions, those coins being sold in China have individual letter die stamps, irregular placement where the copies made in the US usually have the word "COPY" imcorporated into the design. Just a point...nothing more.

    Good link though up above.
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hey zions, those coins being sold in China have individual letter die stamps, irregular placement where the copies made in the US usually have the word "COPY" imcorporated into the design. Just a point...nothing more. >>

    The individual letter die stamps is something that I haven't seen with US replicas but some US replicas I've seen from Gallery Mint and National Collectors Mint seem to have COPY stamped on afterwards.

    See the reverse image for the Gallery Mint 1799 Uncirculated Draped Bust Large Cent replica

    Also see the reverse for the NCM 1913 Liberty V Nickel replica

    I also happen to have a NCM issue in front of me which is stamped. I think some private US issues have COPY incorporated into the design but there are more than enough where it was stamped on after the fact. Kind of makes you wonder if any escaped without being stamped....
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • lkrarecoinslkrarecoins Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭
    You have a better chance at seeing Hitler at a Bar Mitzvah image
    In Loving Memory of my Dad......My best friend, My inspiration, and My Coin Collecting Partner

    "La Vostra Nonna Ha Faccia Del Fungo"
  • DDRDDR Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have purchased a couple of genuine Trade dollars from eBay sellers in China, but not recently. Almost all on Ebay currently are fakes and unless you really know what you are doing I would not recommend it. It's not worth the risk.
    David
    Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
    Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,831 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes i have seen a few pics of genuine trades dollars from ebay sellers in China---HOWEVER--chances are nearly 100 out of 100 that you will not get a genuine trade dollar when you get it. JMHO. Bob
    image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,721 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Yes i have seen a few pics of genuine trades dollars from ebay sellers in China---HOWEVER--chances are nearly 100 out of 100 that you will not get a genuine trade dollar when you get it. >>



    The genuine Trade dollar they are showing is probably the coin used to create the molds used to cast the fakes. image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,509 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No Perry, not yet.
    They would be full of "CHOP MARKS" if they were genuine, wouldn't they ?
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500 ✭
    there is a coin dealer in Hong Kong that sells top notch real stuff


    what country is Hong Kong?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,721 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>No Perry, not yet.
    They would be full of "CHOP MARKS" if they were genuine, wouldn't they ? >>



    I wouldn't be surprised if they counterfeited trade dollars and then take punches to add "real" chop marks to help make the coin look more real.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,721 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>there is a coin dealer in Hong Kong that sells top notch real stuff


    what country is Hong Kong? >>



    Hong Kong is a former British colony but is now part of China.




    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • greghansengreghansen Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭
    I've bought a few genuine Trade Dollars off EBAY from China. It was also the source of the most deceptive 1876-CC DDR I've ever seen. I would not recommend the practice to anyone, even those who know the series well. The odds of an unhappy outcome are extremely high.

    Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum

  • Teletrader1950Teletrader1950 Posts: 40
    I would never buy a raw coin from them
    You can't win an arguement with a crazy.

    Parker
  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I've bought a few genuine Trade Dollars off EBAY from China. It was also the source of the most deceptive 1876-CC DDR I've ever seen. I would not recommend the practice to anyone, even those who know the series well. The odds of an unhappy outcome are extremely high. >>



    But...but the prices are so cheap! image
    image
    Obscurum per obscurius
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm astounded that people aren't putting 2 and 2 together here.

    People who wouldn't buy anything unslabbed from China need to think long and hard about the ability of counterfeiters. They can churn out 150 year old coins that even experts in the field don't trust raw. They can churn out premium quality fake Rolex watches machined from metal and assembled from a a couple dozen moving pieces, along with the COAs, packaging, holograms, etc.

    So what makes you think the achillies heel of these massive counterfeiting industries is an $.18 clear plastic case?

    I've said it before, but it apparently needs to be repeated: If counterfeit PCGS, NGC, and ANACS slabs aren't already among us, they will be shorty.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame

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