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MSNS, 2 days in Dearborn with the Michigan crowd and more!!!
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
The annual Thanksgiving Day weekend show in Dearborn, Michigan has become one of favorite regional shows and this year's event continued the trend of nice getaways. Not only is it an excuse to forget about the monotont of home and the beginning of a long winter, but it offers the chance to see some friends and attend a little known auction and a bustling bourse with plenty of wannabee's, market-makers and all the stuff that tends to drive the big mouthpiece dealers and legends up the proverbial wall. The local vest pocket dealers have the oppurtunity to set-up with national dealers and guys that drive in from neighboring states with both reaping the rewards of a long weekend off work for the common guy to visit for a day or even a few hours. To my way of thinking, it provides a venue which leaves little downside for anyone.
Just remember, these are my impressions and my feelings from what I witnessed, things may have been entirely different
.........................
I managed to arrive shortly after 9:30 AM on Friday, just in time to check in to the Hyatt and make the floor as the opening bell was sounded. I had an interesting prelude to the mayhem ahead as I was walking through the parking lot; a small hawk was chasing down a pure-white-dove in the never ending battle of life, with the dove escaping to coo another day!!! Can anyone guess which bird was the dealer and which the collector in my mind??
I got down to business and gave MadMarty a phone call to discover that he was already at work busily checking Proof and SMS sets, thus saving me the hassle of having to do that chore. I'll let him tell/show what he found, but I didn't bother to look at a single set on the floor. Even though the aisles on the bourse are generous things were crowded after an hour of opening so I decided to do some auction viewing and let the crowd thin a bit.
I gave a call to beartracks42 and he met me in the smaller hall where the viewing is along with his wife. We looked for about an hour and a half before breaking for lunch. The variety this year seemed beter than in the past with more appealing coins and somewhat less in the way of the Exonumia I gravitate towards. My approach is to peruse the catalog prior to the show and get an organized list of lots to check prior to any bulk lot and additional searching, using a clipboard for notes and then checking things for pricing in the evening. The highlights for me were two and three cent pieces, there were several gems of each, both Proof and Mint State. There also were Proof Half and Large Cents, with an 1857 Small Date Large Cent being the highlight. It had gorgeous faint olive green tone mixed with the red and brown, I saw it as a PR65BN. What struck me as strange is that neither me or Gary tended to be interested in the same things, so we got to look at quite a bit and shared the high points with each other.
Rather than leave the hotel we opted to eat at the in-house restaurant, a bit pricey but good and hassle free. Marty met us and we had time to look at some of his medals in standard slabs and the large NGC multi-holders. He sure is a quick study and brought some nice eye candy.
When we got back to the bourse it had indeed thinned out and it made it actually possible to get to tables!! Some things I noticed-----there were more ACG holders than I'd seen in about 2-3 years at a single show, less ANACS holders, virtually no ICG slabs and with some dealers, entire cases of gold PCI coins. One guy had a full case of gold PCI classic commems and another guy had about 4-5 different ACG slab types. The only grading service in attendance was ANACS, with a lone representative who wasn't a grader. This was bad cause I'd brought along some stuff for opinions. The guy did tell me funny story, though. Apparently a collector wasn't aware that they had moved from Ohio to Texas and he called a while back to get directions once he got off the interstate. When asked where he was at, the response was "Getting off the freeway in Dublin."
I assume he was bummed out when he found out he still had about 1200 miles of driving left!!!
Despite the no grading opinion at ANACS I was still able to find help. I bumped into conder101 and Mike helped with my 1798 Large Cent, telling me it was a Sheldon 175. As well as being the oldest coin in my collection it has the distinction of being the one I've had the longest. After some 35-40 years I finally know what it is. The dealer at Cunningham Exonumia helped with a Civil War token I brought, telling me it's a Fuld 188/384 R-3 in copper. Turns out I didn't need ANACS after all. I located a "market maker" that snapped up a coin I wanted to sell, gave me a fair price in a no-hassle transaction but I held onto another that I had brought to sell. I also saw a coin that I'd "made" for sale in a dealers showcase, the first time that's happened to me. It had some characteristics that made it easy to spot and he confirmed my hunch when I asked where he'd bought it at. I paid a visit to a couple of the book dealers at the show and finally, finally, finally I have a CherryPickers vol. 1!!! I also bought a new loupe from Foodude, the Newmismatist recommended Eschenbach 3-6-9. It was pricey but I had decided over the summer that my aging eyes needed a better glass than what I was using.
Since it was getting late in the day I tried to get a list of dinner attendees and went to the restaurant and made the reservation, then headed to my room to change clothes and relax for a spell. We met at 7:30------myself, MadMarty, beartracks 42 & the Missus, numobri & his sidekick Bill, Tassa & Andy from jaderarecoins, Numisma and Michelle, Foodude, Newmismatist, Sego, and I think that was it. Marty dissappointed us all because he didn't bring the Chicken. We had an enjoyable dinner and then someone mentioned "the bar" and the place seemed to clear out rather quickly!!
Saturday meant more lot viewing and a little thinner crowd, but not much. I mainly looked at lots for a sort of verification and checked a few bulk listings but then focused on the floor. I sought some help in sorting out an 1879 3CN-----where's DPoole when you need him-----that the catalog listed as MS but I thought was a Proof. After talking to a couple guys I decided it was indeed a Proof so I should pass. I continued my hunt for an acceptable 1805 C-1 Half Cent and found none that passed muster. One coin from the Stacks sale earlier this month had evidence of cleaning showing as hairlines on the obverse portrait. As I search, I become convinced that the EAC have conspired to hide them all.
I found some nicely toned PCGS Ike Dollars in a dealers case, but he insisted on selling them as a group and wouldn't budge. I went back to a case that had some exquisite Love Tokens only to find they were gone. I followed up on some Proof two-cent pieces but they were priced at about 3x sheet which is absurd, so I passed. I managed to find a few SC$'s that MadMarty didn't see and bought a nice Panama-Pacific unlisted variety which had an Indian chief motif on the obverse, nothing real pricey but a neat variety nonetheless. Gary Adkins had some Louisiana Purchase Exposition Gold tokens and I picked up a nice NGC 1/2 dollar example. He also had a 1785 Connecticut African Head that I enquired about. Strangely, I was talking earlier to Numisma(Dennis Tarrant) about not seeing any of those coppers and this example was on a decent planchet and well centered. I took down all the information from the slab and thanked the seller with the hope of reaching a deal in the near future, I didn't want to get overextended and cut myself thin at the auction.
I spent time with beartracks and his wife up at their room as we waited for the auction. Things started slow cause we needed to wait for the Canadian lots to end, but the U.S. stuff moved along at a nice pace. My lots were scattered so I walked the lobby intermittantly and cruised down to the bar to mix with the crowd that was unwinding. There was also an MSNS banquet and "Hockey Dance" for the kids at the hotel to attend. It made for an intersting mix!!! Without getting into a long auction speil, I'll let you know what I won. The first item I tried to bid on was an 1863 IHC but the auctioneer didn't see my card, the lot went to the book at about half of what I was willing to pay. The coin was a Gem with no carbon spots, I had it as MS65. I held my card up higher for the next lot which was 1865 2-Center listed correctly as Breen-2386 with vibrant tone and PL surfaces. I held off on the 3CN's even and didn't have a lot listed for about 2 hours, a nice lithograph of the 1933 CPIE held in Chicago. I't one of my favorite expo's and the litho is in fine, fine shape.
After some waiting and crowd thinning we finally got to the meat of my selections, some Gem SC$'s. I managed to win the three lots with greatest interest, an 1876 Centennial Liberty Bell HK-43 on a thick copper planchet, an HK-22 Gilt and a Liberty Seated Dollar on white metal(tin) HK-55. The final lot was another copper planchet medal dedicated to George Washington, a Valley Forge Centennial listed as HK-137 and Baker-449A. All these are MS gems and for the most part problem free except for the tin example which has some pest showing. It was getting late, the room was empty and the listings coming to an end so I headed down to the bar to goodbye to a few of the Michigan guys that were still standing!!!
All in all it was a good show with good company and lots to see and buy. I'd like to share pictures but that won't happen till almost Christmas, but I promise a followup. If you live within a few hundred miles of Detroit I'd suggest you consider this show in it's spring and autumn formats, both are good in all regards, well organized and maintained. I can't offer an opinion on market conditions, the dealers are better situated to do that, but I had a swell time and didn't see much negative to comment on. There are always sour apples in the barrel, but this weekend had more ripe fruit than anything else. And as DHeath would say, some of the fruit was hangin' low!!!
Al H.
Just remember, these are my impressions and my feelings from what I witnessed, things may have been entirely different
.........................I managed to arrive shortly after 9:30 AM on Friday, just in time to check in to the Hyatt and make the floor as the opening bell was sounded. I had an interesting prelude to the mayhem ahead as I was walking through the parking lot; a small hawk was chasing down a pure-white-dove in the never ending battle of life, with the dove escaping to coo another day!!! Can anyone guess which bird was the dealer and which the collector in my mind??
I got down to business and gave MadMarty a phone call to discover that he was already at work busily checking Proof and SMS sets, thus saving me the hassle of having to do that chore. I'll let him tell/show what he found, but I didn't bother to look at a single set on the floor. Even though the aisles on the bourse are generous things were crowded after an hour of opening so I decided to do some auction viewing and let the crowd thin a bit.I gave a call to beartracks42 and he met me in the smaller hall where the viewing is along with his wife. We looked for about an hour and a half before breaking for lunch. The variety this year seemed beter than in the past with more appealing coins and somewhat less in the way of the Exonumia I gravitate towards. My approach is to peruse the catalog prior to the show and get an organized list of lots to check prior to any bulk lot and additional searching, using a clipboard for notes and then checking things for pricing in the evening. The highlights for me were two and three cent pieces, there were several gems of each, both Proof and Mint State. There also were Proof Half and Large Cents, with an 1857 Small Date Large Cent being the highlight. It had gorgeous faint olive green tone mixed with the red and brown, I saw it as a PR65BN. What struck me as strange is that neither me or Gary tended to be interested in the same things, so we got to look at quite a bit and shared the high points with each other.
Rather than leave the hotel we opted to eat at the in-house restaurant, a bit pricey but good and hassle free. Marty met us and we had time to look at some of his medals in standard slabs and the large NGC multi-holders. He sure is a quick study and brought some nice eye candy.
When we got back to the bourse it had indeed thinned out and it made it actually possible to get to tables!! Some things I noticed-----there were more ACG holders than I'd seen in about 2-3 years at a single show, less ANACS holders, virtually no ICG slabs and with some dealers, entire cases of gold PCI coins. One guy had a full case of gold PCI classic commems and another guy had about 4-5 different ACG slab types. The only grading service in attendance was ANACS, with a lone representative who wasn't a grader. This was bad cause I'd brought along some stuff for opinions. The guy did tell me funny story, though. Apparently a collector wasn't aware that they had moved from Ohio to Texas and he called a while back to get directions once he got off the interstate. When asked where he was at, the response was "Getting off the freeway in Dublin."
I assume he was bummed out when he found out he still had about 1200 miles of driving left!!!Despite the no grading opinion at ANACS I was still able to find help. I bumped into conder101 and Mike helped with my 1798 Large Cent, telling me it was a Sheldon 175. As well as being the oldest coin in my collection it has the distinction of being the one I've had the longest. After some 35-40 years I finally know what it is. The dealer at Cunningham Exonumia helped with a Civil War token I brought, telling me it's a Fuld 188/384 R-3 in copper. Turns out I didn't need ANACS after all. I located a "market maker" that snapped up a coin I wanted to sell, gave me a fair price in a no-hassle transaction but I held onto another that I had brought to sell. I also saw a coin that I'd "made" for sale in a dealers showcase, the first time that's happened to me. It had some characteristics that made it easy to spot and he confirmed my hunch when I asked where he'd bought it at. I paid a visit to a couple of the book dealers at the show and finally, finally, finally I have a CherryPickers vol. 1!!! I also bought a new loupe from Foodude, the Newmismatist recommended Eschenbach 3-6-9. It was pricey but I had decided over the summer that my aging eyes needed a better glass than what I was using.
Since it was getting late in the day I tried to get a list of dinner attendees and went to the restaurant and made the reservation, then headed to my room to change clothes and relax for a spell. We met at 7:30------myself, MadMarty, beartracks 42 & the Missus, numobri & his sidekick Bill, Tassa & Andy from jaderarecoins, Numisma and Michelle, Foodude, Newmismatist, Sego, and I think that was it. Marty dissappointed us all because he didn't bring the Chicken. We had an enjoyable dinner and then someone mentioned "the bar" and the place seemed to clear out rather quickly!!
Saturday meant more lot viewing and a little thinner crowd, but not much. I mainly looked at lots for a sort of verification and checked a few bulk listings but then focused on the floor. I sought some help in sorting out an 1879 3CN-----where's DPoole when you need him-----that the catalog listed as MS but I thought was a Proof. After talking to a couple guys I decided it was indeed a Proof so I should pass. I continued my hunt for an acceptable 1805 C-1 Half Cent and found none that passed muster. One coin from the Stacks sale earlier this month had evidence of cleaning showing as hairlines on the obverse portrait. As I search, I become convinced that the EAC have conspired to hide them all.
I found some nicely toned PCGS Ike Dollars in a dealers case, but he insisted on selling them as a group and wouldn't budge. I went back to a case that had some exquisite Love Tokens only to find they were gone. I followed up on some Proof two-cent pieces but they were priced at about 3x sheet which is absurd, so I passed. I managed to find a few SC$'s that MadMarty didn't see and bought a nice Panama-Pacific unlisted variety which had an Indian chief motif on the obverse, nothing real pricey but a neat variety nonetheless. Gary Adkins had some Louisiana Purchase Exposition Gold tokens and I picked up a nice NGC 1/2 dollar example. He also had a 1785 Connecticut African Head that I enquired about. Strangely, I was talking earlier to Numisma(Dennis Tarrant) about not seeing any of those coppers and this example was on a decent planchet and well centered. I took down all the information from the slab and thanked the seller with the hope of reaching a deal in the near future, I didn't want to get overextended and cut myself thin at the auction.I spent time with beartracks and his wife up at their room as we waited for the auction. Things started slow cause we needed to wait for the Canadian lots to end, but the U.S. stuff moved along at a nice pace. My lots were scattered so I walked the lobby intermittantly and cruised down to the bar to mix with the crowd that was unwinding. There was also an MSNS banquet and "Hockey Dance" for the kids at the hotel to attend. It made for an intersting mix!!! Without getting into a long auction speil, I'll let you know what I won. The first item I tried to bid on was an 1863 IHC but the auctioneer didn't see my card, the lot went to the book at about half of what I was willing to pay. The coin was a Gem with no carbon spots, I had it as MS65. I held my card up higher for the next lot which was 1865 2-Center listed correctly as Breen-2386 with vibrant tone and PL surfaces. I held off on the 3CN's even and didn't have a lot listed for about 2 hours, a nice lithograph of the 1933 CPIE held in Chicago. I't one of my favorite expo's and the litho is in fine, fine shape.
After some waiting and crowd thinning we finally got to the meat of my selections, some Gem SC$'s. I managed to win the three lots with greatest interest, an 1876 Centennial Liberty Bell HK-43 on a thick copper planchet, an HK-22 Gilt and a Liberty Seated Dollar on white metal(tin) HK-55. The final lot was another copper planchet medal dedicated to George Washington, a Valley Forge Centennial listed as HK-137 and Baker-449A. All these are MS gems and for the most part problem free except for the tin example which has some pest showing. It was getting late, the room was empty and the listings coming to an end so I headed down to the bar to goodbye to a few of the Michigan guys that were still standing!!!
All in all it was a good show with good company and lots to see and buy. I'd like to share pictures but that won't happen till almost Christmas, but I promise a followup. If you live within a few hundred miles of Detroit I'd suggest you consider this show in it's spring and autumn formats, both are good in all regards, well organized and maintained. I can't offer an opinion on market conditions, the dealers are better situated to do that, but I had a swell time and didn't see much negative to comment on. There are always sour apples in the barrel, but this weekend had more ripe fruit than anything else. And as DHeath would say, some of the fruit was hangin' low!!!
Al H.
0
Comments
Sounds like it was a lot of fun.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Dan
J
siliconvalleycoins.com
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Great report,
I thought the show turned out Real nice,
Super people to spend time with.
See you in the Spring.
Brian
Nice that you got many of the auction lots you were after.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
i hate it when work gets in the way of my show schedule!!!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Al when I ran into Marty, Friday at Jade Rare Coins table, he said you were probably viewing lots, I must of just missed ya.
It was nice being able to meet a few of you guys, Foodude almost had me buying a real nice toned bald guy, probably should of picked it up.
Jade sold me a real nice bust half dime, almost as pretty as Tassa. I wish I would have let them take the coin back to photo, because I can not get a shot of the damn thing to save my life.
I also picked up another real nice CBHD.
All in all it was a good time, I wish I would of stuck around for the dinner, but had the little ones with us.
Ron
<< <i> I also bought a new loupe from Foodude, the Newmismatist recommended Eschenbach 3-6-9. It was pricey but I had decided over the summer that my aging eyes needed a better glass than what I was using. >>
Keets, Nice seeing you at MSNS - a great dinner and enjoyable company. I'm sure you'll enjoy that new loupe - you can actually use the the 3x to view coins in the cases w/o having to have the dealer take them out - if you like what you see, then ask to see it in hand - after you use that loupe for a while, you'll never go back to a cheap loupe
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
Great report.
Dinner was good as well.
Maybe next year Marty will bring the chicken!
James
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Kranky,
If you had a nice time with EVP and myself in Pittesburg,You would have a nice time at this show.
You should try it.
Brian
There a lot of true collectors that attend the MSNS show every year. I consider it a bellweather for the heart of the coin market. Sounds like all is well in collectorland at the present time, if this show is any indication.
Coin Rarities Online
It was a great show, as always.
Very nice show report by keets. Also, special thanks to our own numobri, who is the bourse chairman. He really worked hard on this show, but still found time to chat with everyone about what this is all about; COINS!
to Newmismatist------i was busily using the new glass as you instructed, flat on the case to get an impression of coins in the case and it's suprisingly effective. since i don't like to be a bother and have dealers pulling stuff out unnecessarily i think it's a very good thing.
i think Dennis makes a good point about the show and the organization provided by the staff from MSNS which includes numobri as the "BourseBoss" who seems to go the extra mile for both the dealers in attendance and dealers/collectors who show up. the MSNS table was always manned and pages always seemed to show up whenever i'd hear a dealer wondering about something like food!!
MadMarty intentionally left that chicken at home, much to everyone's dissappointment. i find it a bit funny that people actually ask him where the chicken is. that's a bit demented, ain't it??!!??
"Mom" and I enjoyed our time with you and the other forum members this past weekend. The show was very well attended and Brian does a super job organizing it and keeping it in line. I was equally impressed with the auction associated with the show. Hope to do it again next fall.
<< <i>MadMarty intentionally left that chicken at home, much to everyone's dissappointment. i find it a bit funny that people actually ask him where the chicken is. that's a bit demented, ain't it??!!?? >>
What's worse is that you arrive, greet your "friends", and all they want to know is where the chicken is. Shows who rates higher.