PLEASE HELP - I think someone trimmed my Dempsey

XanaduNow

I picked this 1947 Cummings & Son "Famous Fighters" Jack Dempsey up recently. I got it dirt cheap and it looked like it was in good enough condition. I just gave it a closer inspection and there appears to be something funky going on with the right edge of the card. Is it just me or does it look like the edge moves in as it approaches the center of the card and then pops back out on its way to the other end?

Has this been trimmed? It certainly appears that way to me but I am by no stretch of the imagination an expert or knowledgeable in this department.

What's my course of action? The seller has a FB rating of over 2300 and is at 100%. It could be possible that the seller wasn't aware that it had been trimmed but if a novice like myself can detect it upon the briefest of looks than I'm guessing the seller knew as well. Keep in mind, I got the card delivered for under $10 so to be honest I don't feel like starting WWIII over this but I would like to prevent this from happening again to others. I don't want to return the card as shipping to the UK wouldn't be worth it and the seller would probably just turn around and sell it again and -- to be honest -- someone else might end up getting much more burned than myself (SMR on a 5 is $60). Neg?

I tried the pixel thing on the right edge and the right border's width measures this as you go from top to bottom:

136
110
122
134



Any and all opinions/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Arthur

Edited to add: Just realized I never added the scan. D'oh!

Boopotts

I don't think you should give someone a negative without giving themselves a chance to make it right. Also, I think you're going to find this yourself in this situation quite often if you're buying off-grade vintage stuff sight unseen, and that the best thing you can do is either a) accept it as one of inherent risks that come with buying non slabbed cards, or b) factor in the possibility that the card has been altered into your bid price.

XanaduNow

<< <i>I don't think you should give someone a negative without giving themselves a chance to make it right. Also, I think you're going to find this yourself in this situation quite often if you're buying off-grade vintage stuff sight unseen, and that the best thing you can do is either a) accept it as one of inherent risks that come with buying non slabbed cards, or b) factor in the possibility that the card has been altered into your bid price. >>



Good point Boopotts. I should've mentioned in my post that I would certainly contact the seller and dealt with them extensively before leaving a neg. I don't believe I've ever left a neg and I don't take it lightly. My point was that a return of my payment, less S/H, still leaves me out the same amount of money I spent on the card so I don't really see it as a feasible option. The seller has many auctions and I've seen their items up on numerous occasions, I've just never won anything from them before. I don't feel the price I paid for an item should be a determining factor though in whether or not a leave a negative.

I will contact the seller and hear their point of view on this as that is the very least I can do. I was just wondering what others thought on this. Thanks for the input Boopotts, it's very much valued.

Arthur

Southerncards

The outward curvature of the upper right corner would make me leery.

ajw

I've gotta say that the right edge looks *very* fishy. Is it a difficult card to find? If it really was cheap, why not just keep it in your collection while looking for an upgrade (while asking for a refund of a good portion of the purchase price, too).

I also have to say that my first thought upon reading the subject of this post was "I bent my Wookie!"

I bet I'm not the only one.

jimq112

I've bought some cards from several UK sellers and it seems like they think differently than we do about condition. I've gotten cards wrapped in tissue paper and that was normal for them. Also I've gotten cards with minor writing that wasn't mentioned. One seller I deal with a lot has a MP&co DiMaggio for sale now that he mentions a slight line on the back and barely mentions that it's miscut enough to show part of another card.

They just see things differently. I doubt if your seller would try to hoodwink you over $6 or so. If he's like my seller and you mention the problem you'll get a refund and keep the card.

Probably just an honest mistake. Hard to believe you can get a 47 dempsey card for less than most packs of new cards go for now.

daveryan2001

For $10 just keep the card.

You'd have to wonder why anyone would bother to trim a card like that to improve it,
and do that bad a job.

The seller probably didn't even pay attention to the right side.

Unless the description raves about it being mint, perfect, etc.... just keep it, give
the positive and know you still got a good deal on it, it just may not grade, and
if it's only worth $10 why get it graded anyway?

detroitfan2

Whatever the case, I nominate this thread for the 2006 PSA message boards "Title of the Year" category.

lawnmowerman

XanaduNow

Thanks for the input guys. So, just to make sure I'm reading some of your responses correctly ....

It's okay to trim cards as long as you don't do it to items that sell for large sums of money? SMR on a 9 is $400. I'm keeping the card and don't expect any money in return but what if it went for $100? Would it be okay to be upset about trimming then? What about $75? What's the cut-off?

Dave & Ryan, there are many reasons to get cards graded other than raising the monetary value. I've got a Dempsey Master set I'm working on so there's one reason. I didn't say the card was worth $10, I said I paid $10 for it. Either way, welcome to the boards. We accept everyone here.

Arthur

jimq112

I don't think it's ever ok to sell a trimmed card and not describe it as trimmed, I just think the UK sellers don't know or care as much as USA collectors do about grading. He probably took a quick look and didn't see creases.

Email him and tell him it matters to you that it was trimmed and ask him what he wants you to do. The card is worthless to you, but it's not worth the shipping costs to send it back. Maybe he can refund your $ less shipping and ebay fees or something.

Also I saw the same card in closed auctions unsold in a psa 6 for $49.95. Maybe that seller would listen to an offer if the card is something you can use? It's been listed twice with no sale.

dempsey

XanaduNow

Thanks Jim, I appreciate all your help.

I didn't pick up the PSA 6 because I picked up an 8 shortly after I purchased this raw copy. In that sense, I'm lucky. I've got the card I need for my registry and as soon as it gets here I'll be happy. I also completely agree with you about the differences between card collecting (and it's grading) on the two sides of the pond. I want very much to not believe there was any malice on the part of the seller. I guess I was just thrown off a bit by the implication by others that the cost of an item should determine whether or not altering/tampering is okay.

I'm not going to buy from this seller again either way and if I were someone else I would want to know about this -- whether the seller did the trimming or whether they were just too ignorant or apathetic to notice it.

Thanks again.

Arthur

Griffins

<< <i>Whatever the case, I nominate this thread for the 2006 PSA message boards "Title of the Year" category. >>



Can you imagine if the card was one of Jack Johnson?

I don't think it's ever ok to trim a card, or erase something, or press a wrinkle or crease.
That being said, how much continued aggravation do you need for $10. Yes, it sucks, and I'd at least email the guy. But not something I'd let eat at me for more than 10 minutes.
If it was sold without a scan you now know to always ask for one. If it was offered with a scan you know what to look for. Either way, it was a cheap lesson.
Don't feel too bad- my lessons in this subject cost me a few hundred. But they probably saved me thousands.

themetalsign

That right edge is definitely trimmed.

I wouldn't neg the guy.

I would chalk it up as never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, buy raw unseen and expect too much if you do. You will be let down more often than not. At least by my experience.

I would think a neutral would suffice. He just might not have known it was trimmed. It is possible but in all reality probably not.

Just let potential buyers who research feedback know that they need to be aware of this potential with a neutral rating.

For what you paid I wouldn't worry too much. It still makes a great display for the collector.



Dave D.