Did high grade stuff exist in the 50's/60's?

TheCARDKid

There are some interesting and very provactive threads over on net 54 about alterations, what the big auction houses are doing about it, etc.

A topic that has come up repeatedly is the "set registry crowd" and all the high dollar stuff that's available now. Did 7's, 8's and 9's ever exist in the 50's, 60's or 70's?

I'm 28 and have only been in the hobby off and on since the mid 90's, so I might be way off base. But it seems like there's been an aweful lot of finds since the 60's, 70's, 80's that can account for at least some of the high grade, 7's, 8's and 9's out there. Is this great cloud of suspicion always warranted?

-There was just an article about the Sothebys auction and "virgin" T206's discovered (including many PSA 8 HOF'ers).

-It seems like high prices and increased awareness of the hobby would naturally bring out alot of good stuff (Mr Mint's finds in the 80's for example).

Card values relative to income have exploded in price. That's bound to shake some of the high end stuff loose.

-Incredible stuff still seems to show up, just out of the blue (The high grade '14 Cracker Jack set that sold recently).

-The hobby, pre '70-75, was much more scattered and disorganized, at least relative to now. I imagine you could find more rare and high dollar cards today on ebay than you could in months or years pre internet/pre organized hobby. Has the amount of stuff for sale and the frequency of all of it (major auctions seemingly every month) distored certain viewpoints?

Thoughts, comments?

bbne1

Although I don't own anything pre 1954, both my brother and I just started getting raw 50s and 60s HOF'rs graded that we've had for years. I imagine there are still a number of raw collectors out there that just haven't been interested in grading the cards, especially if they're not selling them. I'm not sure this is pertinent to your question, but I know we had the cards long before alterations became more commonplace, and I would think many other raw collectors have too.

2dueces

There was a find in 1986 of 5500 1952 Topps cards all in NM/Mint condition. Amoung that lot were 40 Mantle Rookies in high grade condition. So yes, there was high grade cards in the 50's and 60's. Most only come out because of the price now. If they were just cardboard we would never see any of the finds. People would just stick them away like family photo's, dear to them, but worthless to everyone else.

Skinpinch

Cardkid, it is kind of both. Whereas there are legit stuff that has been unearthed, and some still in MANY private collections....I broke a 60's collection that I know was unaltered, and got many 9's out of the group, and boy were they sharp. The problem lies here...of that legit set break I did, there are people that would be able to turn some of my 7's to 9's, because it was often a tiny imperfection between the two. Or, when you get that super sharp card from that set, and it has the lightest wrinkle. A five with the wrinkle, and maybe a 10 without it. If somebody does not believe this stuff goes on...

TheCARDKid

I believe it goes on, absolutely.

This scan was brought up on net 54 and speaks for itself...
(Note, the nick on the upper left border, the centering, the faint creases in the jersey, the small pin hole/indentation to the left of his neck)





In terms of severity, I wonder though how much of it is perception and how much of it is reality. Are we talking 1 in 3 cards, or 1 in 20?

zef204

I'm sure I'm not alone here, but I don't read Net54. Please elaborate on what you're talking about.

It seems in your original post, you are talking about "finds" and in your last post you are showing a 1 that is now a 2. Can you throw me a bone here?

stevek

I can speak for the 60's because I opened a number of wax packs back then and yes they were from my recollection PSA 9 and 10 type cards if they had been graded immediately. Of course there were also the miscuts and off centered cards as well. The corners though were definitely "razor" sharp.

The problem was storage and perceived value. I think most of us know that many 60's and earlier cards were mostly kids "toys" to be handled and played with and perhaps maybe placed in some sort of album. But even in these albums, wear and discoloration could still occur. Frankly, from what I know the only realistic storage means to keep the cards in mint condition would have been to use the storage methods used with postage stamp collections.

You look at many 60's postage stamp values in mint condition and they are really not worth all that much money. For example a block of four "commons" postage stamps in mint condition generally sells for only a few bucks. But not many people thought to put baseball cards in these stamp storage methods. The people who did, obviously have a lot of value on their hands for having done so.

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Estil

I remember reading a small book called "Sports Cards" written in 1979 (as it often showed 1978 cards) and it gave tips on how to store cards w/o damaging them; perhaps people started to take good care of their cards even back then?

TheCARDKid

On net 54 (a pre WWII board), a topic that has come up repeatedly is, "where were all the high grade cards in the 50's, 60's, 70's"?

PSA 8 Goudey Ruths, Gehrigs, T206 Cobbs, etc.

Scott Gaynor thread

An example is Scott Gaynors reply near the bottom of the thread.

If you went to shows pre 1980, were there many PSA 8 quality T206's, Goudeys, Delongs or whatever the issue may be? Have PSA 8 and 9 cards just magically appeared over the years?