Thought provoking (not-so) hypothetical involving an interesting Ebay situation.

p8nt · November 22, 2006 12:48PM

The facts: This auction of mine ended last Sunday. It was won by a bidder from Canada. I do not ship to Canada (nor have I ever for various but irrelevant reasons) as is stated in the auction.

(Part 1): Do change my terms and adapt (thus completing the transaction) for this buyer or not?

More facts: I am rather happy, no, extremely happy with the ending price

If it were not for this bidder, the winning bid would have been $300, which is still a nice amount, but $500 is much better

(Part 2): Do I have some sort of subconscious debt to this bidder? Please explain.

Final facts: The bidder contacted me shortly after the end of the auction and requested that I ship the coin in a plain envelope without any values or markings on it.

(Part 3): Do I complete the transaction? if so, at what terms? If not, why not?

jayboxx · November 22, 2006 12:53PM

This is kind of like a Coinguy hypothetical and one of those annoying math test questions combined. My head hurts.

flaminio · November 22, 2006 12:56PM

<< Final facts: The bidder contacted me shortly after the end of the auction and requested that I ship the coin in a plain envelope without any values or markings on it. >>

This is the deal breaker. The buyer is asking you to commit fraud. Tell him that if you can't send it with the proper customs forms, the deal's off.

lordmarcovan · November 22, 2006 12:58PM

<< (Part 1): Do change my terms and adapt (thus completing the transaction) for this buyer or not? >>

Your call. If you're thrilled with the bid amount and his money's good, go for it. If he pays via PayPal, what's the difference? You can make him pay a little bit more for shipping, but shipping to Canada is not that much more expensive.

<< (Part 2): Do I have some sort of subconscious debt to this bidder? Please explain. >>

Nope. If you don't wanna do it, don't. Just remind him of your terms.

<< (Part 3): Do I complete the transaction? if so, at what terms? If not, why not? >>

Sure, go for it. He might've requested the plain, unmarked envelope because of a concern about nosy neighbors, teenaged crackhead sons who might steal it, anything. I don't necessarily see it as a red flag. Just make sure his money's in hand first, and in US funds.

Edit to add: flaminio has a point. You do need to fill out the proper customs forms. If he doesn't like that, tough. He shouldn't have bid. To have bid when your terms excluded him in the first place, he's already in a bad position to ask you any favors. But if he is willing to do it with the proper customs forms attached to the envelope, etc, and you want his money, take the deal.

airplanenut · November 22, 2006 1:01PM

<< 

<< Final facts: The bidder contacted me shortly after the end of the auction and requested that I ship the coin in a plain envelope without any values or markings on it. >>

This is the deal breaker. The buyer is asking you to commit fraud. Tell him that if you can't send it with the proper customs forms, the deal's off. >>

Or just send them with the documents. Let's play it out:

He wins the auction (against your terms)
You adjust your terms and agree to ship to Canada (now he has no basis to back out)
He asks you to commit fraud (that wasn't ever part of the deal, but a contract was made)

I say he bought it at the price he won it for, and the customs forms should reflect that.

Hugegut · November 22, 2006 1:02PM

His feedback looks ok and you got an extra $200. I'd ship it.

flaminio · November 22, 2006 1:08PM

<< His feedback looks ok and you got an extra $200. I'd ship it. >>

I would to, but with a properly filled out customs form.

Hugegut · November 22, 2006 1:11PM

<< 

<< His feedback looks ok and you got an extra $200. I'd ship it. >>

I would to, but with a properly filled out customs form. >>

That goes without saying. Just ship it the normal way.

JZrarities · November 22, 2006 1:12PM

Hmmm.. winning bidder: invisiblemanfromhongkong

I would wait for payment to clear and wouldn't use Paypal.

Bochiman · November 22, 2006 1:15PM

<< Hmmm.. winning bidder: invisiblemanfromhongkong

I would wait for payment to clear and wouldn't use Paypal. >>

I'd agree about not using paypal when going to another country (even canada)...besides, are the canooks trustworthy?

Coin Finder · November 22, 2006 1:23PM

The buyer is trying to avoid Dutes and Taxes in US Dollars which when converted to Canada Dollars will be more.

How is he/she paying?

Dog97 · November 22, 2006 1:39PM

<<<Edit to add: flaminio has a point. You do need to fill out the proper customs forms. If he doesn't like that, tough. He shouldn't have bid. To have bid when your terms excluded him in the first place, he's already in a bad position to ask you any favors. But if he is willing to do it with the proper customs forms attached to the envelope, etc, and you want his money, take the deal. >>>

I agree.

onthespot · November 22, 2006 2:13PM

tell him to give you a US contact to send it to and let his contact commit fraud instead.

coindeuce · November 22, 2006 2:30PM

<< tell him to give you a US contact to send it to and let his contact commit fraud instead. >>

Right. in other words, open yourself up to a conspiracy to commit fraud, which in the eyes of the law is just as culpable as committing the fraud directly

shmort6552 · November 22, 2006 3:19PM

Just a thought from a "Canook". I have bought a lot of coins etc from e-bay and normally 99% of the sellers are from the US. I have never asked for a plain envelope or anything else. The actual shipping cost is reallt about the same as it is within the US. I've never had a problem and I simply filter my searches to make the seller will ship to Canada.
Asking you to use the plain envelope goes over the line.

Bruce

TAClough · November 22, 2006 4:16PM

I hope you tell him that you only mail items insured - Delivery Confirmation! Or at least I hope you learned that by now.

p8nt · November 22, 2006 4:23PM

<< I hope you tell him that you only mail items insured - Delivery Confirmation! Or at least I hope you learned that by now. >>

All Ebay transactions come standard with DC/SC and insurance now

itsnotjustme · November 22, 2006 4:27PM

You cannot agree to his last request for you to commit a crime.

Properly completed customs form, and insured. If he doesn't like it, no sale. If you a revengful, and a neg at 89.999 days.

ksteelheader · November 22, 2006 11:04PM

<< The facts: This auction of mine ended last Sunday. It was won by a bidder from Canada. I do not ship to Canada (nor have I ever for various but irrelevant reasons) as is stated in the auction.

(Part 1): Do change my terms and adapt (thus completing the transaction) for this buyer or not?

More facts: I am rather happy, no, extremely happy with the ending price

If it were not for this bidder, the winning bid would have been $300, which is still a nice amount, but $500 is much better

(Part 2): Do I have some sort of subconscious debt to this bidder? Please explain.

Final facts: The bidder contacted me shortly after the end of the auction and requested that I ship the coin in a plain envelope without any values or markings on it.

(Part 3): Do I complete the transaction? if so, at what terms? If not, why not? >>

I sell worldwide. I get better prices by doing such. What is the reason for not selling to Canada???

100proof1957 · November 22, 2006 11:10PM

if you send it without paperwork youre just begging for a charge back !

DenverDave · November 22, 2006 11:19PM

"The buyer is asking you to commit fraud"

Another way to look at it is... Unfair Tariffs on American Goods...

ksteelheader · November 22, 2006 11:20PM

I never ship without the customs paperwork filled out and attached. It only takes a minute to complete.

DenverDave · November 22, 2006 11:21PM

Got to question his handel... "invisiblemanfromhongkong"..."-)

TorinoCobra71 · November 22, 2006 11:40PM

<< This is kind of like a Coinguy hypothetical and one of those annoying math test questions combined. My head hurts.

>>

So True......

TorinoCobra71

flaminio · November 23, 2006 12:40AM

<< Another way to look at it is... Unfair Tariffs on American Goods... >>

Oh, I absolutely agree. However, such battles are fought in the legislature, and in the courts. Not with a dweeby eBay buyer.

TwoSides2aCoin · November 23, 2006 12:53AM

Canadians are our friends. Send him the coin and when filling out the customs form, just list it as Numismatic item. The only thing bad is no guarantee or insurance on such items going outside of our borders.
There is a certain risk, but I have sent coins there without problems.

drwstr123 · November 23, 2006 12:57AM

For the extra bucks you got, ship it Registered!

19Lyds · November 23, 2006 1:21AM

Isnt there an option in Ebay to block bidders that are "Registered in Countries you do not ship too"?

Since your listing states Ships to: United States, did this function fail or do you not have it set up?

Just curious..........

Russ · November 23, 2006 7:36AM

<< For the extra bucks you got, ship it Registered! >>

There is no Registered Mail to Canada.

<< Isnt there an option in Ebay to block bidders that are "Registered in Countries you do not ship too"? >>

Yes, there is.

Ben,

Whatever you do, heed the advice not to accept PayPal. The vast majority of foreign addresses are not confirmed, which means you would have no protection if the bidder decides to shaft you with a chargeback.

Russ, NCNE

Thought provoking (not-so) hypothetical involving an interesting Ebay situation.

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