Pedigree coins

Newcomp103

Should a premium be paid for coins that are slabbed with a designation of the "fill in the blank here" collection? A few collectors that I know have differing opinions on the topic, wanted to pose the question to the forum.

ziggy29

Some people won't pay extra for any pedigree. But in general "the market" will usually pay a small premium (on the order of 10-20%) for some of the most prominent pedigrees out there (i.e. Eliasberg, Norweb, et cetera) just for the "coolness" factor of having a piece of their collection. Most lesser pedigrees add little if any value.

RYK

There have been numerous discussions of this topic over the years:

What's in a name? Doug Winter's take on the importance of pedigrees

Pedigrees: Names of the past vs. names of the present and future

Which pedigrees stick?

What Pedigrees do you like?

are just a few. Search "pedigree" and "provenance" and you will have plenty to read.

coinguy1

Here is one thread on the subject: see here

Others (some of which are on point) can be found here

ColonialCoinUnion

Drat! Beat me to it - it takes a long time to set up those links.

slipgate

<< <i>Some people won't pay extra for any pedigree. But in general "the market" will usually pay a small premium (on the order of 10-20%) for some of the most prominent pedigrees out there (i.e. Eliasberg, Norweb, et cetera) just for the "coolness" factor of having a piece of their collection. Most lesser pedigrees add little if any value. >>



10-20%? I've seen pedigreed coins sell for 100x their value just for the pedigree - especially ones like eliasberg!

coinguy1

<<10-20%? I've seen pedigreed coins sell for 100x their value just for the pedigree - especially ones like eliasberg! >>

Please give us some examples of those that sold in the 100x value range? I haven't seen them, but would be interested. Thanks.

ziggy29

<< <i>10-20%? I've seen pedigreed coins sell for 100x their value just for the pedigree - especially ones like eliasberg! >>

Do you mean 100% more than their value (i.e. double the sheet value)? Yes, some will, but more "average" coins with the pedigree are closer to 10-20%.

For what it's worth, I have an Eliasberg coin for which I paid about double the sheet value, and don't regret it a bit. The pedigree is a coolness factor, but for the look of this coin I'd have done it without the Eliasberg pedigree:

RYK

Interestingly, I have owned a handful of pedigreed coins (Eliasberg, Norweb, Bass, etc.), and in only one case did I pay more for the pedigree. It was the least expensive coin of the group (below), and I paid about 20% more than it was worth, but 25% less than what it recently had sold for in a public auction.

As for the other pedigree coins, I think that the pedigree raises interest in them and improves the likelihood that they sell quickly, I do not believe that the pedigree necessarily adds monetary value to the coin.

1798CentCollector

I think it depends on what you value as a collector and that a "relevent" pedigree does add value to a degree. A 1793 wreath large cent owned by the likes of Proskey, Hines, French, Newcomb, Sheldon, et al, does add "value" for me as I find the provenance and the stories and people who collected passonately as interesting and fun as the coins themselves. IMO Provenance is the bloodline and I'd be willing to pay a reasonable premium for the provenance. A modern day paid-for pedigree on a slab from a registry set does not do the same IMO. Granted some slabbed pedigress like Norweb, Bass, and Eliasberg do represent value to me, and there are usually names that came before those.

In collecting Large Cents, I usually find that fine cents are connected to fine pedigress/provenance and hence the premium goes with the fine coin.

IMHO

slipgate

sorry - I meant 100% as in double the value - $400 coin sells for $800 with pedigree. I look on ebay all the time for them in hopes of picking one up but they always sell way higher than I want to pay.

ziggy29

<< <i>sorry - I meant 100% as in double the value - $400 coin sells for $800 with pedigree. I look on ebay all the time for them in hopes of picking one up but they always sell way higher than I want to pay. >>

I'll bet these are usually exceptional coins for the grade, though, which would get a strong premium regardless of the provenance. I doubt they're, well...widgets with famous names attached. Are they?

RichieURich

<< <i>

<< <i>sorry - I meant 100% as in double the value - $400 coin sells for $800 with pedigree. I look on ebay all the time for them in hopes of picking one up but they always sell way higher than I want to pay. >>

I'll bet these are usually exceptional coins for the grade, though, which would get a strong premium regardless of the provenance. I doubt they're, well...widgets with famous names attached. Are they? >>



I remember that the Eliasberg collection had Unc. rolls of 1883 No Cents nickels that someone bought, had them slabbed with the Eliasberg pedigree, then tried to sell them for a big markup. You occasionally see one in an auction somewhere. I'd say an 1883 No Cents nickel is certainly a widget by just about anyone's standards.

ScarsdaleCoin

Rich, so funny you mention that set of coins.....I tried to buy one at Baltimore...current sheet was around $35-$45 bucks....dealer wanted to wholesale it to me for $100... a example of thanks but no thanks.... LOL

kimon1230

So, how does a coin get a pedigree?

fcloud

<< <i>So, how does a coin get a pedigree? >>



One way is to have a big collection such as Eliasburg. These pedigrees are based on the size of the collection and their prestige.

The other way is to get a set into the top five sets, and PCGS will pedigree the set for free.

From PCGS benifits page.

A valuable pedigree. In the rare coin market a pedigree is a contributing factor in the pride of ownership and value of the coin. Coins from famous collections such as Eliasberg, Norweb, Garrett, etc., usually command a premium in the marketplace. If you participate in the PCGS Set Registry program your set may qualify for the free pedigree service. The free pedigree service policy is as follows:

The set must be 100% complete.
The set must be in the top 5 in the Registry.
Sets with less than 10 coins may be pedigreed if warranted. The decision will be that of PCGS experts.
The Registry member is responsible for shipping and handling costs.
The fee for pedigrees for upgrades to your set submitted after the initial pedigree is $5 a coin ($20 a coin for coins graded MS or Proof 70.) PCGS will not pedigree duplicate coins. You must submit both the upgraded coin and the coin it will be replacing. The coin that will no longer remain in your set will be reholdered without the pedigree and returned to you along with the newly pedigreed coin. Your set must remain 100% complete and in the top five to qualify.

Kimchee

"Your set must remain 100% complete and in the top five to qualify. "

Does that mean you can't sell off pieces of set to different buyers? (If you decide to sell the set)

fcloud

They will only upgrade coins, if you send the old coin in for them to remove the pedigree. In other words: You send in a certifed MS67 coin, but you already had an MS66 coin, so you need to send both coins to get the pedigree on the new one and they reholder the other one without the pedigree.

If you no longer own the pedigree for that slot, they will not allow you to get a replacement pedigreed.

RYK

<< <i>They will only upgrade coins, if you send the old coin in for them to remove the pedigree. In other words: You send in a certifed MS67 coin, but you already had an MS66 coin, so you need to send both coins to get the pedigree on the new one and they reholder the other one without the pedigree.

If you no longer own the pedigree for that slot, they will not allow you to get a replacement pedigreed. >>



They say that, but I have seen/bought coins in holders for pedigreed sets that have been upgraded.

fcloud

<< <i>They say that, but I have seen/bought coins in holders for pedigreed sets that have been upgraded. >>



they used to let you upgrade without sending the other coin in, but they changed their policy to the new version I listed earlier.