Fellow Giant fans...
bri2327
Posts: 3,178 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
Can we all finally come to an agreement and admit that Eli is overrated ?
With the weapons the Giants have on offense basically any QB would do at least as well, and most better than he has.
There are times he just looks clueless out there. No more " growing " or maturation excuses can be given. He has had more than enough time as a starter in this league to show what he is made of.
He is not the player many think he is, nor do I believe he ever will be.
With the weapons the Giants have on offense basically any QB would do at least as well, and most better than he has.
There are times he just looks clueless out there. No more " growing " or maturation excuses can be given. He has had more than enough time as a starter in this league to show what he is made of.
He is not the player many think he is, nor do I believe he ever will be.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win."
-- Yogi Berra
-- Yogi Berra
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<< <i>Can we all finally come to an agreement and admit that Eli is overrated ?
With the weapons the Giants have on offense basically any QB would do at least as well, and most better than he has.
There are times he just looks clueless out there. No more " growing " or maturation excuses can be given. He has had more than enough time as a starter in this league to show what he is made of.
He is not the player many think he is, nor do I believe he ever will be. >>
Who is this and what have you done to bri?!?!
Seriously, he has done NOTHING for the past 5 games, and in all honesty, not much prior to that.
Time for us all to get our head out of the clouds and realize the hype has been far beyond what he is or will ever be.
Kerry Collins was a better QB than this guy will ever amount to.
-- Yogi Berra
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>David Garrard (yes, David Garrard) outplayed him tonight - and not just by a little. >>
I wholeheartedly agree.
-- Yogi Berra
Tiki is ok, but when you are down, he isn't an option.
Giants are really overrated. Bucs will help you out this week
JS
<< <i>Eli was very good this season and now he is very bad. Up and down and all around. Bri, I think you are over re-acting to just a pitiful performance tonight. There is a good QB in Eli. >>
Dan,
In all honesty, there hasnt been all that much very good in Eli this year.
And it wasnt just tonight, or else I wouldnt have commented. He has been borderline pitiful for 5 games now.
One other note on Eli...as he did last year, he gets considerably worse as the weather gets colder. He might be one of those guys who just cant play in cold weather. It is definately something to take note of.
In the end, no matter what is said I dont think Eli is a QB who can take the Giants all the way. Lets face it, there are ALOT of QB's in this league who would do more with the talent he has around him.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>weapons?? What?? Plexiglass is soft and Im still waiting for Shockey to back up that big mouth. Carter has hands of steel....wet steel. Sure
Tiki is ok, but when you are down, he isn't an option.
Giants are really overrated. Bucs will help you out this week
JS >>
As usual, you show that you know right around next to nothing. Plaxico is a talent, and until Toomer went down Eli had two excellent WR's to throw to, a tight end who he forgets is on the field for at least 3 quarters a game, one of the premier running backs in the game, and another who is a better than average runner and powerhouse in Jacobs.
Few teams in the NFL have what Eli has around him. In any case, he has MORE than enough talent to perform much better than he has.
I expected the Giants to struggle with the recent injuries, but there is no excuse for how the offense has struggled, and it has to lie on Mannings shoulders.
-- Yogi Berra
If he didnt have a famous last name there isnt a Giant fan out there who would defend this guy, period.
-- Yogi Berra
The Giants receivers suck. For real. I don't know how you call Plaxico a "talent" and I don't think Toomer is much better.
Tiki is awesome, but if they play from behind and/or give him only 10 carries he's a non factor. I don't think Eli is a superstar, but he's better than most qbs in the league. The Giants D is dessimated, which doesn't help the offense one bit.
He's 25 years old, very few QBs are awesome at that age. If the Giants give up on him, I can all but gaurantee he will go elsewhere and flourish.
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As was noted in tonight's game, this is the second consecutive game against a good defense that he's looked terrible. Last week against the bears, tonight against the jags.
Do you think the giants are kicking themselves for letting Rivers go?
<< <i>Bri-
The Giants receivers suck. For real. I don't know how you call Plaxico a "talent" and I don't think Toomer is much better.
Tiki is awesome, but if they play from behind and/or give him only 10 carries he's a non factor. I don't think Eli is a superstar, but he's better than most qbs in the league. The Giants D is dessimated, which doesn't help the offense one bit.
He's 25 years old, very few QBs are awesome at that age. If the Giants give up on him, I can all but gaurantee he will go elsewhere and flourish. >>
Honestly, I havnt seen enough of Plaxico over his career to argue too deep in his defense, but he certainly is well above average.
Toomer on the other hand I have seen for his entire career, and he is one of the best receivers in team history.
Like I said though, the Giants have enough talent. There are teams with alot worse who have qb's that perform better.
In as much as you dont know how I call Plaxico a talent, I dont know how you can say Eli is better than most qb's in the league.
Again, if his name wasnt Manning, would you say that? Would anyone have anything positive to say about him EVER if his name wasnt Manning ?
-- Yogi Berra
"Daddy says the Chargers are real sucky.
If I have to play for them I think I'll just end up crying myself to sleep under the bed every night."
"Can you fix it so I can go to the big city Daddy? Oh! ... thank you Daddy!"
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
<< <i>
"Daddy says the Chargers are real sucky.
If I have to play for them I think I'll just end up crying myself to sleep under the bed every night."
"Can you fix it so I can go to the big city Daddy? Oh! ... thank you Daddy!" >>
I would never begrudge a Bolts fan for enjoying any and all of Eli Manning's failures.
QB's mature at a different rate, obviously.
But when you see someone like Roethlisberger come in and win a Super Bowl, or even the way Phillip Rivers and Tony Romo just seem to "get it" from the moment they first step on the field, it can be frustrating watching a QB that seems to need more time.
I'll agree his surname will give him a longer leash on trying to figure things out, not to mention a number one pick and big contract.
I still give thanks every night that my Colts took Peyton and not Ryan Leaf. It was a toss up at the time.
If Eli doesn't turn the corner real soon, it's safe to say he's nothing more than a descent, no-better-than-average, run of the mill NFL quarterback. Not a chump, not a star.
shawn
<< <i>Kerry Collins was a better QB than this guy will ever amount to. >>
No freakin way
<< <i>How about the Cardinals and Giants getting these guys some O line help. I didn't watch last nights game but in the second half of the Bears game he was short-arming a lot of easy throws which tells me he was hearing footsteps. Doesn't matter how good your receivers are in the QB is listening to the drumbeat of footsteps. Develope the line to get a decent and consistent running game going and take some pressure off of him. >>
This is a really interesting point. I think it would probably be pretty revealing if someone could find a way to do a study on how O-line play correlates to quarterback play. I'll bet there's a causal relationship there, and that it's much stronger then most of us would ever suspect.
<< <i>If you pout on draft day for being the #1 pick, you are destined for failure. >>
John Elway pouted his way from the Colts to the Broncos and into the HOF.
If I recall correctly, Elway sucked for a couple years as well. Not saying that Eli Manning is certain to mature into an Elway, but it is possible, and probably what the Giants are hoping for.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you pout on draft day for being the #1 pick, you are destined for failure. >>
John Elway pouted his way from the Colts to the Broncos and into the HOF.
If I recall correctly, Elway sucked for a couple years as well. Not saying that Eli Manning is certain to mature into an Elway, but it is possible, and probably what the Giants are hoping for. >>
Manning doesnt have one tenth the arm Elway had. That is something you are born with and dont mature into.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>Manning doesnt have one tenth the arm Elway had. That is something you are born with and dont mature into. >>
Really? I just assumed he has a bionic arm like his big brother.
<< <i>
<< <i>Manning doesnt have one tenth the arm Elway had. That is something you are born with and dont mature into. >>
Really? I just assumed he has a bionic arm like his big brother. >>
You know what they say about assuming things.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>Elway did demand a trade but I don't recall him being on stage, in front of millions, pouting.
Back when Elway was drafted, it wasn't the 2 day ESPN spectacle that it is now. By no means defending Eli (I've been as big a critic of the guy as anyone), but let's not give Elway any extra credit - he was a spoiled kid who was determined to go to a team that he wanted to play for.
Elway flat out told them not to draft him. It was the first time I can recall any player telling teams he wouldn't play for them (anyone else have prior instances?)
Bo Jackson repeated it later with the Bucs.
Eli continues to make really bad decisions, and I hear interviews with him where he tries to say how you have to play with confidence, and not be afraid to make mistakes, but it seems like he's so determined to be better than his brother that he makes mistake after mistake.
Bo Jackson told TB that they would waste a #1 pick because he was going to play baseball.
Elway, who already had 2 years of minor league baseball under his belt, told the Colts either trade him or he was going to play baseball.
Eli had ZERO leverage. Trade me or I'll sit out a year. Boo-feakin-ho. I'm as good as my brother and daddy.
To compare Eli to Elway and Bo in the same context is stretching it to say the least.
Spin it how you want, they all tried (and were successful) in dictating where they would play.
<< <i> Manning doesnt have one tenth the arm Elway had. That is something you are born with and dont mature into. >>
That is wrong. Eli has a very strong arm. Very strong. He just does not know where the ball is going from throw to throw. Eli can throw the deep ball with anybody, the hard zip over the middle with anybody,
he just can't hit the ol broad side of a barn
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>It's not a stretch...they all said the same thing: "I won't play for you".
Spin it how you want, they all tried (and were successful) in dictating where they would play. >>
Show me any pictures/video of Bo or John pouting, which was my point before you spun it out of context, when they got drafted.
"If you pout on draft day for being the #1 pick, you are destined for failure."
"Elway did demand a trade but I don't recall him being on stage, in front of millions, pouting."
<< <i>
Show me any pictures/video of Bo or John pouting, which was my point before you spun it out of context, when they got drafted.
>>
And if you'd listen to my point that when those guys were being drafted, the NFL draft wasn't plastered all over ESPN for 2 days straight...then you would have.
<< <i>"If you pout on draft day for being the #1 pick, you are destined for failure." >>
Elway pouted and was hardly a failure.
<< <i>"Elway did demand a trade but I don't recall him being on stage, in front of millions, pouting." >>
He would have if the Colts had drafted him...but his pre-draft pouting assured that didn't happen.
Elway and Bo didn't need to pout because they had options other than sitting on their couch. Both had baseball career to fall back on, remember? It's called using leverage in negotiations. Eli had absolutely nothing, other than his big brother and daddy.
If you honestly believe that Bo and Elway were mopping around and pouting on draft day, just like Eli, then more power to you
Edited to add: Oops, that should read, "... were moping around.." but I guess it still makes sense. Eli was mopping the ground with his lip from pouting so much
<< <i>
<< <i> Manning doesnt have one tenth the arm Elway had. That is something you are born with and dont mature into. >>
That is wrong. Eli has a very strong arm. Very strong. He just does not know where the ball is going from throw to throw. Eli can throw the deep ball with anybody, the hard zip over the middle with anybody,
he just can't hit the ol broad side of a barn >>
Dan,
I respectfully have to disagree with you. Elway had one of the best arms the game has ever seen. Eli Mannings throwing arm, its strength, as well as accuracy should not be mentioned in the same breath.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>Arguing just to argue again, huh? >>
Look who's talking? Look, did anyone for a second think that Elway was seriously going to go play baseball? No, no one in their right mind did. But if it helps you sleep better at night, feel free to think that way.
Why are you going on and on about Elway? This thread is about Eli. Please stay on topic.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> Manning doesnt have one tenth the arm Elway had. That is something you are born with and dont mature into. >>
That is wrong. Eli has a very strong arm. Very strong. He just does not know where the ball is going from throw to throw. Eli can throw the deep ball with anybody, the hard zip over the middle with anybody,
he just can't hit the ol broad side of a barn >>
Dan,
I respectfully have to disagree with you. Elway had one of the best arms the game has ever seen. Eli Mannings throwing arm, its strength, as well as accuracy should not be mentioned in the same breath. >>
And Eli's lower lip was mopping the ground as he pouted his way up the podium to shake Tagliabue's hand
<< <i> Dan,
I respectfully have to disagree with you. Elway had one of the best arms the game has ever seen. Eli Mannings throwing arm, its strength, as well as accuracy should not be mentioned in the same breath. >>
Thats fine Bri, But what you said is Eli does not have 1/10th the arm of a Elway. Not true. Not even close. While Eli's arm is certainly not of the caliber of a all time great, he does have a very strong arm. You are confusing his abysmal accuracy with arm strengh. Eli can THROW the football with any quaterback in the game. He just can't GET IT WHERE IT SHOULD BE.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Also, in terms of Elway's arm, I remember his receivers talking about how hard he threw - that he'd leave little crosses on the chests of his receivers when he threw.
the "floating" you are talking about has nothing to do with his arm strength. Those almost trademark floats come from Eli's head and not his body. That boy can chuck the pigskin. Unfortunately his head is made of pigskin too.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
he needs to be a leader as his team feeds off him. when he looks lost the team follows suit. he can't be looking all down when he misses a reciever.
steve