To Slab or Not To Slab?

CollectorBob

I need your collective advice and experiene here...

I am considering selling a lot of my duplicates, especially those from the hot zones (Portugal, Poland, Russia), but most of what I'd list on ebay (all non-gold) are Krause-valued in the $50-$75 range. Getting these slabbed by PCGS will tack on approx. $25 onto each coin (fees, postage, insurance). But, of course, offering a slabbed specimen would command a premium offer (what with the flood of asian counterfeits out there).

Question is: is it worth it? Do you think I will recover my slabbing expense, in the general case? I would slab anything > $100, but the $50-$75 range? What would you do?

Another one: is there any way to get "bulk" discounts from PCGS or any of the other grading services? The only "discount" I can find off the PCGS website is the "8 coins free if you pony-up $200 for some grade of membership".

Thanks for all your insights!

--Boman.

sliderider

Even in a slab, you likely won't get bids higher than the value of the coin in the slab, unless you get a bidding war going between two or more people who desperately want what you have. To spend 1/3 to 1/2 of the potential sale price is a big expense which is almost never recovered on a low value coin. If a coin is valued at $5 and costs $20 to get into a slab, you can't turn around and sell it for $25, because nobody is going to pay it no matter whose plastic it's in. So you need to do the math. If you submit the coin, can you still sell it at a profit after the slabbing fee is taken into consideration?? If the most you can expect to get for the coin minus the slabbing fee leaves you with a net loss, it isn't worth it. What you need to do is get some really nice photos of the coins you are selling. Anyone who sees them will be able to tell the quality and offer a guarantee with them. If the coins are really nice, you probably won't have them returned and if the photos and description are accurate, it will reinforce your grading to the potential bidders.

CollectorBob

Thank you very much! That's so in line with my thinking.

I got to work on getting myself a decent camera. That's going to be my self-present for this holiday season. Right now I had an old Sony CyberShot 3.2MP and I just can't get a decent coin pic out of it!! If I try zooming in, everything blurs, and I can't seem to figure the right lighting or angles too. There is so much I have to learn.

secondrepublic

Generally for Polish coins in that price range I would only consider slabbing if the coins are UNC. Also, I would recommend NGC because that's what the market seems to prefer (and it's a generally cheaper and quicker service).

Edited to add: Krause values are often way off the mark. Generally, coins in XF and below are overvalued in K-M and higher grade coins are undervalued.

CollectorBob

NGC rates are almost the same as PCGS $16.50/world coin, $99 for an annual membership (to avail of direct submission rights) with 5 free submissions.

Tootawl

You can also submit directly top NGC if you are an ANA member. There are no memebrship fees. There are the regular grading fees.

ANA- NGC Info web site.

ANA/NGC Membership form.

secondrepublic

<< <i>NGC rates are almost the same as PCGS $16.50/world coin, $99 for an annual membership (to avail of direct submission rights) with 5 free submissions. >>



I was thinking of the cost to ANA members... $36 for the annual ANA membership which gives you "no annual fee" submissions to NGC - just the per-coin cost.

SYRACUSIAN

To spend 1/3 to 1/2 of the potential sale price is a big expense which is almost never recovered on a low value coin. If a coin is valued at $5 and costs $20 to get into a slab, you can't turn around and sell it for $25, because nobody is going to pay it no matter whose plastic it's in.


I will have to disagree here. If the coin is in superb gem quality, it will most likely sell for multiples of its unc cat value ,depending on how often it is offered for sale on ebay. There are several members (myself included at a very small scale) that have done and keep doing this. Of course you need to know the market a bit, because for some coins, even an MS65 might turn out to be a loser grade. In the end, you need to look at the total results: (coins' value+slabbing and other fees) vs (total sales price-ebay and paypal fees) to see if it was profitable or not, rather than look at it on a coin per coin basis.

a couple of recent examples to illustrate my point:

$5 coin in unc

$12.50 coin in unc

ajaan

Dimitri brings up a good point. Krause's highest grade is usually Unc. or sometime BU. If you submit an uncirculated coin and it comes back MS64-67, you will usually receive multiple of the Krause value. If you list the coin 'raw' you'll probably get a fraction of the Krause value.

You must realize, slabbing is a crap shoot sometimes. I would send in a couple coins as a 'test'.

Preussen

<< <i>Dimitri brings up a good point. Krause's highest grade is usually Unc. or sometime BU. If you submit an uncirculated coin and it comes back MS64-67, you will usually receive multiple of the Krause value. If you list the coin 'raw' you'll probably get a fraction of the Krause value. >>



I agree 100%. I once sold (for a friend) a $12 coin in an MS67 slab... It brought over $400 . If sold raw, I believe it would have brought virtually nothing.



<< <i>You must realize, slabbing is a crap shoot sometimes. I would send in a couple coins as a 'test'. >>



I agree 100%. It is a crap shoot. Pick some of the nicest pieces and give it a try. - Preussen

ajaan

It also really helps to know the market of the coins you are selling. Like secondrepublic said, Krause can be way off on some issues.

FilamCoins

You should have seen my max bid on this $4 coin!!

ajaan

<< <i>You should have seen my max bid on this $4 coin!! >>


$8???

FilamCoins

I wish!

Tootawl

<< <i>

<< <i>NGC rates are almost the same as PCGS $16.50/world coin, $99 for an annual membership (to avail of direct submission rights) with 5 free submissions. >>



I was thinking of the cost to ANA members... $36 for the annual ANA membership which gives you "no annual fee" submissions to NGC - just the per-coin cost. >>


I was thinking of the people here who were already members of the ANA who might not know about the NGC deal.

worldcoinguy

I think I have to agree with syracusian - if the coins are true gems, your money might be well spent sending it to NGC/PCGS.

I just let 7 raw Nicholas II roubles go on eBay, each had been cleaned as I noted in the auctions. I was more than pleasantly surprised with the final auction price.

coinpictures

I concur. For run of the mill coins it's probably not worth it, but for high-end grades, a slab is invaluable. The question is where is the cutoff to determine whether or not a coin is worth submitting, keeping in mind that in all likelihood not all coins will come back in the grades you anticipate? MS64? MS65? MS63 with PL or rainbow toning?

The choice of what to submit and what not to can be a tricky one...

The other area where it may be worth submitting a coin not just for grade purposes, is if you have any where authenticity is as important as (or more important than) grade.

sliderider

<< <i>To spend 1/3 to 1/2 of the potential sale price is a big expense which is almost never recovered on a low value coin. If a coin is valued at $5 and costs $20 to get into a slab, you can't turn around and sell it for $25, because nobody is going to pay it no matter whose plastic it's in.


I will have to disagree here. If the coin is in superb gem quality, it will most likely sell for multiples of its unc cat value ,depending on how often it is offered for sale on ebay. There are several members (myself included at a very small scale) that have done and keep doing this. Of course you need to know the market a bit, because for some coins, even an MS65 might turn out to be a loser grade. In the end, you need to look at the total results: (coins' value+slabbing and other fees) vs (total sales price-ebay and paypal fees) to see if it was profitable or not, rather than look at it on a coin per coin basis.

a couple of recent examples to illustrate my point:

$5 coin in unc

$12.50 coin in unc >>



How can those two coins possibly sell for just $5 and $12.50 raw? It would be obvious to anyone those are extremely PQ and have a shot at being top pop coins, even in a raw state. Also, why would anyone use Krause values in determining the price they should charge for their coins?? They don't go into enough detail in distinguishing MS grades from one another. It is the opposite extreme of all the lowlifes who put second tier slabs for sale on ebay and then quote the PCGS price guides hyperinflated figures to make their junk look more valuable than it really is.

sliderider

<< <i>You should have seen my max bid on this $4 coin!!


>>



To me, Krause BU means the lowest possible state of MS preservation. In your case that would be MS 60 BN, which might actually have a real value of just $4. There is a HUGE difference between MS 60 BN pricing and MS 68 RD pricing on ANY copper issue.

coinpictures

I'm going to disagree slightly. I think that Krause UNC equates to MS60BN, but in my mind BU would be MS63-64 RB at the least.

What complicates this is that for some countries Krause lists XF, UNC, and BU, whereas in others the listings are only XF and BU (no UNC).

coinkat

The world coin market is in a different position than the US market. Many world coin collectors are not as obsessed with owning a condition concensus coin... however, as time passes and as a different collector perspective enters the world market, that will change. Also, there are world coins that have not been on the radar screen of many dealers or collectors and condition issues will emerge.

I believe some world coins should be slabbed, but one must consider the collector base, the financial consequences and have a very sharp eye and understanding of grading to make it work... its not just about picking the country that is hot, its about knowing the difference between what coins are average and which are of superior quality worthy of a premium that makes slabbing the coin worthwhile.

CollectorBob

Wow! Thanks guys for taking the time for all those replies. All that feedback and I am still undecided.

Okay, here's an example, I've got a few Portuguese India 1947 1/4s and 1/2s, which appear, to me at least, to be in UNC or a very high AU condition (I'll post pics as soon as I get myself a decent camera). The Krause I am currently referencing (library had only this version available - Collecting World Coins 10th edition) has a $40 and $60 for these, respectively. Thus, the dilemma, slab and add ~$25 to each, or go with good pics and hope I get a good price.

Note that I wouldn't bother slabbing those that I don't intend to pop off.

lordmarcovan

While having the coins in slabs might add a small premium for you when they hit the block, in many cases it will not, and I do not think it would be worth it to you to slab the stuff worth less than a hundred bucks. The added hassle and expense would not be adequately recompensed when auction time came around. I would even be selective with some of the > $100 stuff. Gold might be better slabbed, but a lot of stuff in the $100 range can be sold just as well raw. On the other hand, when you start crossing the $200 mark, it might be different.

You can sell a lot here on the Weekly Swaps and/or the Buy/Sell/Trade Forum, with no fees like you'd have on eBay. Or have your cake and eat it too- list the coins on eBay, then link 'em up to the BST Forum and the Weekly Swap thread here. Best of both worlds.

In summary, I would advise against slabbing the coins prior to selling them. If they were gold or United States coins or key dates or something like that, I might answer differently, but generally speaking, I think you would NOT recover your slabbing expenses and would be wasting time, effort, and money. That time and effort that you would have spent on slabbing might be better invested in making nice photographs of each coin. Good pictures- now there's something that might fetch you a premium for your nicer coins.

Then again, there are folks like JamminJ, who take material like the Swiss coin previously posted and send it off and get amazing plastic grades, and reap exponential premiums for their investment, no doubt. If you love the submissions game and you have that sort of eye, well, then- more power to you- you'll do well with the plastic. I'm sure JamminJ and others don't hit the target 100% of the time, but one has to respect their submission success.

coinpictures

<< <i>Wow! Thanks guys for taking the time for all those replies. All that feedback and I am still undecided.

Okay, here's an example, I've got a few Portuguese India 1947 1/4s and 1/2s, which appear, to me at least, to be in UNC or a very high AU condition (I'll post pics as soon as I get myself a decent camera). The Krause I am currently referencing (library had only this version available - Collecting World Coins 10th edition) has a $40 and $60 for these, respectively. Thus, the dilemma, slab and add ~$25 to each, or go with good pics and hope I get a good price.

Note that I wouldn't bother slabbing those that I don't intend to pop off. >>



Not worth it.

If they were MS64+ it probably would be worthwhile, but if you're not darned certain they'll make gem or close to it, I would sell them raw.

Now, the key to being able to sell raw coins successfully online is pictures. They need to be reasonably large pictures, in focus, have decent depth of field, and decently lit. Flatbed scanner doesn't cut it.

MacCrimmon

<< <i>You should have seen my max bid on this $4 coin!!


>>



$4? That's a $12-15 coin all day in Switz. in raw condition. Of course, that's in ticky-tacky 64-65 condition. Funny, the coin looks familiar.

Whether NGC or PCGS, your target grade should be 66 and above for best results.

newsman

<< <i>Wow! Thanks guys for taking the time for all those replies. All that feedback and I am still undecided.

Okay, here's an example, I've got a few Portuguese India 1947 1/4s and 1/2s, which appear, to me at least, to be in UNC or a very high AU condition (I'll post pics as soon as I get myself a decent camera). The Krause I am currently referencing (library had only this version available - Collecting World Coins 10th edition) has a $40 and $60 for these, respectively. Thus, the dilemma, slab and add ~$25 to each, or go with good pics and hope I get a good price.

Note that I wouldn't bother slabbing those that I don't intend to pop off. >>



These are popular coins. If they are truly uncirculated, you should have no problem selling them for close to full catalog value. If you decide to slab them and they come back 65 or better, you might get more.

SYRACUSIAN

<< <i>

<< <i>You should have seen my max bid on this $4 coin!!


>>



$4? That's a $12-15 coin all day in Switz. in raw condition. Of course, that's in ticky-tacky 64-65 condition. Funny, the coin looks familiar.

Whether NGC or PCGS, your target grade should be 66 and above for best results. >>





It has been handled by 5 members, you, me, cosmic who took the photo, shroom who sold it and filam who won it.It never left the Darkside. The truth is that I expected my one and only MS68RD to do a little better, but as long as it's a member who won it...