High quality counterfeits made in Italy, circa 1940's...anyone have info?

291fifth

I recall reading about very high quality counterfeit world coins, mostly dollar size, that were made in Italy shortly after WWII. The die work is of extremely high quality and the metal content is correct. Eritrea KM4 & KM5 Tallero counterfeits reportedly come from this source. I'm sure there are many others. The give-away on the counterfeits is their semi-prooflike surfaces and somewhat convex fields. (The genuine pieces have perfectly flat fields and usually aren't prooflike.)

Does anyone know where more info on these counterfeits can be found? Were gold counterfeits also made by this source?

theboz11

I have two books on counterfeits ( By Taxay, and Lonesome John) and neither one mentions the coins that you refer too, sorry. Maybe someone else has personal knowledge.

MacCrimmon

Milan was a major counterfeiting center in the 1940s and 50s. In fact, the reintroduction of the British sovereign was due to Italian CFs flooding the world. There's a website that discusses this somewhere.....out there.

Try this site.

sliderider

Slightly OT, but I don't understand how someone can get sent up for counterfeiting, when their coins have the correct weight of metal in them?? I read a story a while back about someone who made a living counterfeiting and passing Australian shillings back in the 1920's. The thing was, his shillings were also the correct weight of .925 silver so where is the crime?? If I receive one of his shillings I get the same value as if I accepted a government issued coin, do I not?? My opinion is that if someone is being deceived into believing that they are receiving value that isn't there, then it is counterfeiting. I also know of a lot of counterfeit sovereigns that seemed to be popping up everywhere back in the 1960's and even some of those weren't bad copies and contained the proper weight in metal. The difference there, though, is those were being sold as scarce collector pieces and not being spent for their precious metal value.

291fifth

All of the coins by this faker were of coins that had significant numismatic premiums. In addition, I believe that all of the coins were considered to be "uncurrent."

Sapyx

<< <i>Slightly OT, but I don't understand how someone can get sent up for counterfeiting, when their coins have the correct weight of metal in them?? I read a story a while back about someone who made a living counterfeiting and passing Australian shillings back in the 1920's. The thing was, his shillings were also the correct weight of .925 silver so where is the crime?? If I receive one of his shillings I get the same value as if I accepted a government issued coin, do I not?? My opinion is that if someone is being deceived into believing that they are receiving value that isn't there, then it is counterfeiting. I also know of a lot of counterfeit sovereigns that seemed to be popping up everywhere back in the 1960's and even some of those weren't bad copies and contained the proper weight in metal. The difference there, though, is those were being sold as scarce collector pieces and not being spent for their precious metal value. >>


In the case of the "Chinese shillings" of the late 1920's, the "crime" was in producing unofficial tokens the same weight, fineness and design as official government tokens. In effect, their crime was collecting for themselves the seigniorage that rightfully belonged to the government. At the time, a (genuine) shilling had somewhat less than a shilling's worth of silver in it. The counterfeiters were buying up scrap silver bullion in China, striking "coins" with less than a shilling's worth of silver in them and taking them to Australia for banking at full shilling value. Only a small profit per coin, but obviously enough to make the venture worthwhile.

The only technical flaw in the fakes was a difference in the emu's legs. They only got caught when so many deposits of freshly-minted coins aroused the suspicion of the banks.

Of course, a verifiable 1928 "Chinese shilling" is now a collectors item in its own right, worth as much if not more than a genuine 1928 shilling, though they don't usually rate a mention in the catalogues.