What is this coin?

Warman

and is it worth grading?

1jester

Well, one thing you can be reasonably sure of is that it's pure gold. There are so many test marks and bends in the coin it's amazing. Anyway, I have no idea where it stems from. The coat of arms bears some resemblance to that of Spain, but I don't think that's correct. I hope some real experts show up; there is enough detail to make a positive ID.

coachleonard

Looks to be Spanish gold coin of Ferdinand and Isabella (1474-1504)-- definitely looks genuine

sliderider

The shield does look Spanish, but the other side puzzles me. All the Ferdinand and Isabella gold I have seen actually depicts them on the other side. It doesn't look much like the other side bears their portraiture or that of any other person.

7Jaguars

Yes, the coats of arms of Castille, etc. Can't tell about the value though.

sliderider

Ah, I see it now. Turn the obverse photo around and you can make out the images of two profiles, presumably Ferdinand and Isabella, facing each other, which is typical of gold of that period so that is definitely what it is. A Spanish piece issued under their rule. Good ID of that one coachleonard.

Warman

Thanks for the info everybody! Didn't realize it might be that old. Is something like this in this condition worth grading?

JZrarities

Why do the letters appear INCUSE (or is it just me?)

sliderider

<< <i>Why do the letters appear INCUSE (or is it just me?)

>>



I don't think they are incuse, I think they are just worn so flat that all you can really make out is a shadow on many of them.

Warman

That's what it is, it's the spaces in between that are below the letters, but they are worn and rounded though.

sliderider

I don't know that it's worth grading. In that condition, it would probably come back as a PO1, if it wasn't rejected for damage. You can see what it's supposed to look like in the photo above. Yours looks like it may have even been broken in two and then rejoined at some point, if the ridge that is seen on both sides is any indication. I also just noticed. Look at the legend after DG. The letters don't line up after that. and as you move along there appears to be another line where it was rejoined. It looks like someone tried to cut this coin in half and then cut one of the halves into quarters and it didn't quite work out because the coin is not divided up evenly so they rejoined the whole thing probably with melted gold or some sort of gold based solder. Or maybe a previous owner acquired the coin cut up and reassembled it. Without analyzing the material used to rejoin the pieces, it is impossible to say when it was repaired. Gold and silver coins were commonly cut up to make change centuries ago and it looks like that's what you have here.

What you basically have a really nice conversation starter. It still retains it's bullion value, and of course it's value as an antiquity, and as an artifact associated with a popular royal lineage, but probably not a lot of numismatic value. However, it does have a sense of history to it that a MS piece wouldn't have. When you see a coin like this in MS in a museum it seems sterile and even boring. With a coin like this you can just picture a Spanish noble entering the premises of a shopkeeper to pick up a few things for his estate/manor/castle or whatever and handing the merchant this gold coin. Business has been bad for the merchant lately, so he has no coin to make proper change. The bill is equal to 3/4 of a gold piece so the merchant tries his best to divide up the coin so he can return 1/4 of it but he botches it. The coin is not equally divided. The noble refuses to be short changed. An argument ensues followed by fisticuffs or possibly even a duel. Maybe the noble has the merchant arrested and jailed. We won't know what really happened, but whatever happened, whichever of the two ended up in possession of the divided coin repaired it and spent it on as a whole coin until it eventually passed from person to person for over 500 years until you obtained it. Or you can make up your own fun story to tell the grandchildren. So even though it isn't in top condition, it is still a great piece.

1jester

Warman, did you exchange the images you posted the first time? The first time I posted, there were different images, about half the size, and not inverted as they are now, so it was easier to see the features of the coin.

Sliderider, I don't think the coin has been cut in two and then reconnected. It merely appears to have been folded completely back and forth, then bent back into position. This process always leaves a mark on a gold coin; other metals will break.

I don't know which service might grade this coin. I suspect ANACS will, but I doubt NGC and PCGS would because of the damage. And I don't think it's a P01 - more like a G04 to G06. There's a lot of detail still left.

Warman

No, these are the original images I scanned, not sure what you saw the first time but thank you all very much for the info. I was just going through my coins and remembered I had this one. it was part of an estate and was in a holder and marked 1861 or something in the 1800's (I should have saved it). So I thought it was something from that era, but of course when I looked closer there was no date and nothing looked familiar so thank goodness you all know about this stuff, i don't think my local coin dealers would've figured it out. Well, I 'm kind of discouraged from grading it now but when I heard it was so old, I thought that maybe this was decent shape for a coin like this - until i saw your pictures. Anyway thanks again, I may just put it on "the Bay" to see what I get for it raw.


<< <i>Warman, did you exchange the images you posted the first time? The first time I posted, there were different images, about half the size, and not inverted as they are now, so it was easier to see the features of the coin.

Sliderider, I don't think the coin has been cut in two and then reconnected. It merely appears to have been folded completely back and forth, then bent back into position. This process always leaves a mark on a gold coin; other metals will break.

I don't know which service might grade this coin. I suspect ANACS will, but I doubt NGC and PCGS would because of the damage. And I don't think it's a P01 - more like a G04 to G06. There's a lot of detail still left.

>>

1jester

Well, I guess my memory is failing me! I must be getting old. I thought the images were different, but I guess I was out of my mind.

For what it's worth, grading would at least get the authentication that seems to be necessary on ebay. But I think most would be able to see that it's genuine by the photos. Anyway, good luck!