A nice find at work. (Warning! Big Pics!)
Jdurg
Posts: 997 ✭
I work for a company that's fairly large, and where I work we kind of have our own "campus" where there is a cafeteria, company store, etc. etc. It's a nice place. Anyway, every day outside of our cafeteria there is an area where random vendors will set up and offer their goods. It's usually jewelers, music store folks, local craftsmen, and every now and then a Sport Memorabilia person.
Earlier this week, I went to pick up lunch and noticed they had a whole bunch of sports stuff there for pretty good prices. Nothing horrifically overpriced like I've come to expect. As I'm walking by, I noticed in the back they had this framed photo of Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio right next to a framed photo of Sandy Koufax and one of Mickey Mantle. There were no price tags on the photos, but each of them was signed by the individual on the photo. So I just casually inquired about the Williams and DiMaggio photo. I asked the guy how much is was and he took a look back there and said "I typically charge $225 for HOF autographs, so for that one it would be $450". I honestly expected him to jump out and say something like $1500 so I was a bit shocked. I mean, this IS Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio. Two of the best hitters in the history of baseball. My hands were full of lunch so I just asked how long he'd be there and the guy said he'd be around until about 2:00.
I went back up to my office and just kept thinking about having that signed photo. I eventually caved in and went downstairs with the intent to buy.
I went back up to the seller there and asked again the price just to make sure I heard him right. He once again said "$450". My next question was whether or not it came with a certificate of authenticity. He then went on this little speech of how he's been dealing in autographed goods for the past 30 years and only sells items that are authentic. He told me that each item comes with a certificate of authenticity stating exactly what the item is and guaranteeing that it is real. I was also told that the guarantee is for LIFE and if it is ever found to be a fake that he will give a 100% refund of the purchase price. The receipt also gets attached to the certificate as proof of the price. With that in mind, I felt pretty good. He gave me his home phone number, business phone number and business card with an e-mail address on it and told me that if for some reason I need to return it to just give him a call. Knowing that there was the full refund offered, I felt confident in making the purchase so I did.
So I picked up the photo and the COA and haven't been able to take my eyes off of it yet. I am a bit unsure if it is real or not simply because these are two guys who are probably faked quite a bit. However, I have looked at many examples of their autographs online and these two are well within the acceptable variances. Joe DiMaggio's autograph seemed a bit odd because the J in Joe was more compact that all of the DiMaggio autos that I've seen, but I was able to find similar examples of his signature which have been authenticated by the big companies so it looks like this is legit. I'm now believing that Williams signed it first so DiMaggio didn't have enough room to really expand the J. The autgraphs are done by blue sharpies and look legit. I don't see the little variations that you normally see in a fake and everything appears as if it was signed in one smooth motion. If it is a fake, then it's a good one.
I guess I'm still debating about whether or not I should send this out for official authentication, but with the refund offer from the seller and his willingness to let me get in touch with him, I have a feeling this is real.
Earlier this week, I went to pick up lunch and noticed they had a whole bunch of sports stuff there for pretty good prices. Nothing horrifically overpriced like I've come to expect. As I'm walking by, I noticed in the back they had this framed photo of Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio right next to a framed photo of Sandy Koufax and one of Mickey Mantle. There were no price tags on the photos, but each of them was signed by the individual on the photo. So I just casually inquired about the Williams and DiMaggio photo. I asked the guy how much is was and he took a look back there and said "I typically charge $225 for HOF autographs, so for that one it would be $450". I honestly expected him to jump out and say something like $1500 so I was a bit shocked. I mean, this IS Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio. Two of the best hitters in the history of baseball. My hands were full of lunch so I just asked how long he'd be there and the guy said he'd be around until about 2:00.
I went back up to my office and just kept thinking about having that signed photo. I eventually caved in and went downstairs with the intent to buy.
I went back up to the seller there and asked again the price just to make sure I heard him right. He once again said "$450". My next question was whether or not it came with a certificate of authenticity. He then went on this little speech of how he's been dealing in autographed goods for the past 30 years and only sells items that are authentic. He told me that each item comes with a certificate of authenticity stating exactly what the item is and guaranteeing that it is real. I was also told that the guarantee is for LIFE and if it is ever found to be a fake that he will give a 100% refund of the purchase price. The receipt also gets attached to the certificate as proof of the price. With that in mind, I felt pretty good. He gave me his home phone number, business phone number and business card with an e-mail address on it and told me that if for some reason I need to return it to just give him a call. Knowing that there was the full refund offered, I felt confident in making the purchase so I did.So I picked up the photo and the COA and haven't been able to take my eyes off of it yet. I am a bit unsure if it is real or not simply because these are two guys who are probably faked quite a bit. However, I have looked at many examples of their autographs online and these two are well within the acceptable variances. Joe DiMaggio's autograph seemed a bit odd because the J in Joe was more compact that all of the DiMaggio autos that I've seen, but I was able to find similar examples of his signature which have been authenticated by the big companies so it looks like this is legit. I'm now believing that Williams signed it first so DiMaggio didn't have enough room to really expand the J. The autgraphs are done by blue sharpies and look legit. I don't see the little variations that you normally see in a fake and everything appears as if it was signed in one smooth motion. If it is a fake, then it's a good one.
I guess I'm still debating about whether or not I should send this out for official authentication, but with the refund offer from the seller and his willingness to let me get in touch with him, I have a feeling this is real.
I collect the elements on the periodic table, and some coins. I have a complete Roosevelt set, and am putting together a set of coins from 1880.
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Comments
shawn
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
1. Fake.
2. Facsimiles.
Of course, if they turn out to be real...I'm a little jealous. I wouldn't mind getting another Ted sig or my fist Joe D.
I hope everything works out and it turns into a great find at a great price, good luck !
-- Yogi Berra
What's important is whether you like it or not and if the documentation is enough for you. If it's enough for you then enjoy your piece. However, not that you bought it to resale, you should have a more reputable authentication service if you plan to sell it.
Just my .02
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
<< <i>I would definitely get it authenticated. Unless an item is authenticated by a reputable source or is something that I get from a close friend that I trust, I won't invest in it. For one, I've been burned on bogus COAs/LOAs. Anyone can make a decent looking COA/LOA. As far as the guarantee, I once had a phone number and guarantee on something I bought and still got toasted for several hundred dollars.
What's important is whether you like it or not and if the documentation is enough for you. If it's enough for you then enjoy your piece. However, not that you bought it to resale, you should have a more reputable authentication service if you plan to sell it.
Just my .02 >>
Sound advice and your last statment there pretty much sums up my thoughts on this. I'd like to get it authenticated for a sense of security and liquidity if needed, but at the same time I like it and don't think I would sell it unless a dire circumstance arose. I don't believe that the seller is a scammer, but there is a chance that the person who he got it from may be.
In the general population it isn't that hard to find people that with a bit of practice can make a decent copy of someone's signature. As was mentioned, the Operation Bullpen, some very skilled forgers combined with a criminal mentality can do this on a large scale. You happened to run across a small time crook.
Your auto looks close to mine but not exactly. Mine was signed around the late 70's - early 80's. I guess his signature could have changed with age.
Here is a link to the auction if you want to compare side by side.
DiMaggio auction
I also have a Williams ball at home that I can post a picture of later. Off the top of my head his signature is more compact and my ball hasn't been authenticated yet, but I know it's real!
Get a quick opinion before you send it in and pay $100.
Loves me some shiny!
Good luck.
<<< He gave me his home phone number, business phone number and business card with an e-mail address on it >>>
I'll just take a guess:
home phone number: answering machine, he never picks up.
business phone number: same thing or he doesn't really work there.
e-mail: is not an ISP e-mail. Probably a Yahoo or MSN e-mail that is easily cancelled and anyone can just signup for a different one in seconds.
If he is so-called "legit" - I wonder how many excuses he will give you for not giving your money back, such as he already spent it and he's now broke. Believe me I hope I'm wrong.
Not an expert but based on the examples here I would have a problem with the "J", the "D" and the first "i" in the last name. The entire first name is a bit off.
Again, good luck. The quick opinion would be worth it.
A question. Why did DiMaggio put the "comma like" symbol below the end of his last name?
I'm probably missing something obvious. An Italian punctuation maybe?
You are getting a lot of "quick opinions" for free here. But if you trust PSA/DNA do what one poster suggested. Do an eBay listing, or have someone do it for you, then buy a quick opinion from PSA (I think it costs $7.95 or something reasonable. If/when they say it's no good, you have something to take to your dealer and get your money back. Or, if you paid with a credit card (hopefully) you have a way to get your money back that way.
SteveK has it nailed.
If you look closely at both signatures, you will notice that the signatures are both roughly the same size. Rather than just looking at individual signatures when deciphering a multi-signed item, I look for similarities in style to try and figure out if both signatures were done by the same person. In this case the signatures are roughly the same size. Now look at the "slant" of some of the letters with straight lines. I'll be if you measured the angle of them on both signatures they would be remarkably close.
Now look at the line that joins "Ted" with "Williams" and notice that there is a very slight "pause" in the continity of the line. In most more modern era Williams signatures this line is a very distinct smoothly rounded curve into the "W" in Williams.
The giveaway in the Dimaggio is the "Joe". Dimaggio all through his lifetime has had very distinctive J's and D's even though they have changed in style. The signature on the picture you have - it's not even close to right and in either case.
Note the "weight" of the signatures, or how much pressure was applied to the pen.
The final "nail in the coffin" if you will is to look at the common letters "e" and "a" in both signatures. They are formed nearly exactly the same in size, pen weight and style.
I have absolutely no doubt that both signatures were signed by the same person, at the same time, with the same pen.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
That's what I think too. It doesn't even look like they tried to differentiate the signatures that much.
Good luck getting your money back.
It really sucks that people are out there taking advantage of others.
Do everything you can to get your money back right now. There is no way those signatures stand a chance in hell of passing PSA/DNA's authentication process (which costs around $100 for both signatures by the way). I wouldn't even bother with PSA/DNA's quick opinion because that's how bad those forgeries look.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Sorry.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>Hate to pile on here, but my first instinct was fake. SteveK nailed it right off. They don't match any of the Williams or Dimag's that I have, all either certified or obtained in person.
Sorry. >>
Whew. I didnt want to be the bearer..........
I am definitely no expert and i thought both autos were writtrn by the same person. As i investigate fraud accounts, scan the large photo of each autograph, fold it in the middle of each autograph, then set the top half of the williams auto to the bottom half of the Dimaggio auto and you will see it has the same flow as described in a later thread posted here. Just my 2 cents.