<< <i>To my knowledge, most people in managerial positions at grading companies don't dictate the grading standards. >>
I would say that being the President of a company is a bit different than being simply in a "managerial position". >>
It may be, but that by no means assures that (even) the President dictates the grading standards. For example, Ron Guth is the President of PCGS, but I'd be stunned if he, alone, is responsible for PCGS's grading standard. >>
I think it's more the finalizers that set the standards... they may get some urging from management to grade a certain way, but I think it's more the Finalizers that set what the standards are...
<< <i>James Taylor was not a grader there. Unless you have proof that HE, alone, was responsible for such a shift in the grading standards (which would have been all but impossible), your accusation is unfair and off-base. >>
Mark, does it really matter? The deterioration of their modern grading standards happened under Taylor's watch with the "new ANACS". As president of the company, isn't Taylor is ultimately responsible for the company's grading standards? >>
It sure matters to me. If he had no real say or control regarding the standards for the grading of modern coins (and I think it's quite plausible that he did not), then blaming him seems very unfair, regardless of his title. >>
Mark, I think Connecticoin's point is valid. If James Taylor's the president, theoretically, the buck (or half, or quarter) stops there, with him. If he thought people were overgrading, he could do something about it, couldn't he?
Edited to Add:
Okay, I read the rest of the thread now. He doesn't claim to be a grader, and that's fine. But he can still do the math on the coins coming in and out, right? If you see the standards starting to slip, isn't that a red flag?
If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.
<< <i>Hot off the presses. More details to follow... >>
Longacre, other than comments from the other board members in this thread, are there more details from a specific source you know of that are forthcoming?
I just got off the phone with James. He has been living in Austin with his family staying in Colorado. He has only been seeing them on weekends. He is leaving ANACS so that he can move back with his family and spend time with them. He has left ANACS on very good terms.
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I still don't believe it. Was his long-term plan moving to Austin and keeping his family in CO? If he was the force behind the move and his family wanted to stay in CO, why didn't he move ANACS there?
<< <i>I just got off the phone with James. He has been living in Austin with his family staying in Colorado. He has only been seeing them on weekends. He is leaving ANACS so that he can move back with his family and spend time with them. He has left ANACS on very good terms. >>
Well, on the surface, it would appear he is leaving them "high and dry".
However, if he left on good terms, then it would appear that a smooth transition of power is taking place. Maybe that is what both James and ANACS needed, so it could be a win-win.
He has a teenage daughter in high school and his wife loves her job. It was not supposed to be permanent, but he did it for a year. It would have made his daughter miserable to start at a new school when she only had a couple of years left.
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I don't believe he ever considered this position as temporary. It simply didn't work out. He had very good reason not to relocate his family. It would have made his daughter miserable when she only had a couple years left in school.
Education...the key to collector success! ANA#R216999 WINS#482 EAC#5255 CONECA#N-3902 Coin Community Forum
I am glad to hear that JT's family situation takes precedence over work. I think he has his priorities straight.
But I have to wonder why accept a job in Ohio - and move it to Texas, when the family is in Colorado? I have to question that judgement - I would like to think there is more to the story.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>Hot off the presses. More details to follow... >>
Longacre, other than comments from the other board members in this thread, are there more details from a specific source you know of that are forthcoming? >>
My mole tipped me off to this immediately prior to my announcing it (and scooping the boards). He is quite a squirrely fellow , and is judicious in the information that he gives out. Hopefully he will provide some more details soon. In the meantime, some of the more reasoned responses to this thread are probably accurate.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>... In my area of interest, (1950 to 1970 proof and SMS coins), ANACS used to be every bit as tough as PCGS. These days, I trust their grading of these coins no more than I trust ICG or PCI. There was a very real change in grading standards that happens to coincide with the management change.
Russ, NCNE >>
This is certainly a common perception. But we really need to see a written pop report of coins graded by ANACS after the transition to make a concrete comparison.
For example: How many 1957 Franklins had ANACS graded in PR69CAM prior to Taylors arrival?
How many of the same have been graded ater his arrival?
I would hazard a guess the difference would be very visible.
As to whether or not Taylor is singlehandedly responsible for the shift... I can't say.
BUT, as smoeone else pointed out earlier in the thread, Taylor was not JUST president. He was also their public relations/ customer service voice.
And as such, I think Flaminio is considerably justified in venting his frustation with Taylor as target.
"Wars are really ugly! They're dirty and they're cold. I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole." Mary
<< <i>I've seen this sort of response before...no fore thought, just ramblings of a disgrutled person. >>
Mark and you, I'm not disgruntled. I honestly could not care less what James Taylor is doing when it comes to numismatics. Not before and not now. No matter what anybody has said in this thread so far it makes absolutely NO difference. WoodenNickel, I gave it some fore thought and it all boils down to this: He's gone and goodbye to him. Now, that is fore thought, not a rambling, and not from a disgruntled person. HE'S GONE. SO WHAT. GOODBYE TO HIM. Who gives a crap.
I like James, I think he was good for ICG. I've said it 100 times before on these boards and been shouted down. ANACS had a niche in the market. They were the only reasonable arbiter of grading problem coins. Once they stopped that as a normal practice they became useless. I used to submit 300-400 coins a year to ANACS. Since the big change I have sent in ZERO coins. I know a bunch of other people that feel the same way. Looking at some POS in an ANACS slab with a details grade and no net grade just means it's a POS of no value to me.
BTW I have sat beside Miles Standish and taken Advanced grading from him at the ANA Summer Seminar. There is NO WAY that Miles had anything to do with looser standards at ANACS.
If ANACS is going to continue slabbing problem coins they should go back to net grading all of them or they should do like PCGS and just simply never encapsulate problem coins. Anything else is deceptive crap like NCS details grading. Merely a scam to screw newbies.
"Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner NoEbayAuctionsForNow
<<BTW I have sat beside Miles Standish and taken Advanced grading from him at the ANA Summer Seminar. There is NO WAY that Miles had anything to do with looser standards at ANACS.>>
If Miles graded such coins there, he clearly had something to do with the "looser standards", whether he was for it or not. A grader at a grading company is part of a grading team and, like it or not, must often ignore or compromise his individual/personal grading standards in deference to those dictated by the grading company he works for and the grading team he works with.
.............A grader at a grading company is part of a grading team and, like it or not, must often ignore or compromise his individual/personal grading standards in deference to those dictated by the grading company he works for and the grading team he works with.
How could ANY true grading company dictate grading standards? I thought that an MS-65 was an MS-65. Doesn't everyone work from the same standard?
<< <i>.............A grader at a grading company is part of a grading team and, like it or not, must often ignore or compromise his individual/personal grading standards in deference to those dictated by the grading company he works for and the grading team he works with.
How could ANY true grading company dictate grading standards? I thought that an MS-65 was an MS-65. Doesn't everyone work from the same standard? >>
One person's MS65 is certainly not always an other's, and what clearly defined "standard", which can be objectively and consistently applied to each coin, are you speaking of? Personally, I don't know of one.
Also, if, for example, you are stricter or looser than most in your grading and join a grading company as part of a grading team, you will likely need to modify/compromise your individual standards to a point, or be of little use to the grading team and company.
<< <i>If ANACS is going to continue slabbing problem coins they should go back to net grading all of them or they should do like PCGS and just simply never encapsulate problem coins. Anything else is deceptive crap like NCS details grading. Merely a scam to screw newbies. >>
<< <i>If ANACS is going to continue slabbing problem coins they should go back to net grading all of them or they should do like PCGS and just simply never encapsulate problem coins. Anything else is deceptive crap like NCS details grading. Merely a scam to screw newbies. >>
an absolutely ridiculous statement. >>
I do not disagree with the statement above. In the old days (ie. last year), when you encountered an ANACS net graded coin, the pricing was concordant with the net grade. More recently, I see sellers trying to anchor the pricing to the "details" grade. I think newbies may be susceptible to being hosed in this scenario.
<< <i>.............A grader at a grading company is part of a grading team and, like it or not, must often ignore or compromise his individual/personal grading standards in deference to those dictated by the grading company he works for and the grading team he works with.
How could ANY true grading company dictate grading standards? I thought that an MS-65 was an MS-65. Doesn't everyone work from the same standard? >>
You guys must work for very unique companies, or you work for Presidents who are majority shareholders.
In the real world Presidents have no power or authority. Their job is to execute the bidding of the CEO or Chairman or whomever has the "money" and/or "signs the checks".
As President, you have all the responsibility but almost no say at all (meaning, no control).
As President, the "what" is decided for you and then you are measured on how well you figure out or implement the "how".
Of course in all big companies the "what" changes like the wind, henceforth Presidents who are not majority shareholders but are simply hired for the job typically never meet corporate expectations and separation typically occurs within 3 years or less.
As an entrepreneur I've been Chairman of a public company, started 2 other companies and sold one, and now I work for the 5th largest employer in the world. I'm a corporate SVP and currently report to the CEO of North America (who reports to a Global CEO). All-in-all I've had 2 other very senior level corporate jobs. In my finite experience and through my extensive network of executive colleagues, the above is what I've seen.
Just my 2 cents.
EDITED: There is one exception -- a President who is a patsy or a lackey can last in his/her position indefinitely. However, these folks tend to just be PCC's (pay check collectors).
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>To my knowledge, most people in managerial positions at grading companies don't dictate the grading standards. >>
I would say that being the President of a company is a bit different than being simply in a "managerial position". >>
It may be, but that by no means assures that (even) the President dictates the grading standards. For example, Ron Guth is the President of PCGS, but I'd be stunned if he, alone, is responsible for PCGS's grading standard. >>
I think it's more the finalizers that set the standards... they may get some urging from management to grade a certain way, but I think it's more the Finalizers that set what the standards are...
42/92
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>James Taylor was not a grader there. Unless you have proof that HE, alone, was responsible for such a shift in the grading standards (which would have been all but impossible), your accusation is unfair and off-base. >>
Mark, does it really matter? The deterioration of their modern grading standards happened under Taylor's watch with the "new ANACS". As president of the company, isn't Taylor is ultimately responsible for the company's grading standards? >>
It sure matters to me. If he had no real say or control regarding the standards for the grading of modern coins (and I think it's quite plausible that he did not), then blaming him seems very unfair, regardless of his title. >>
Mark, I think Connecticoin's point is valid. If James Taylor's the president, theoretically, the buck (or half, or quarter) stops there, with him. If he thought people were overgrading, he could do something about it, couldn't he?
Edited to Add:
Okay, I read the rest of the thread now. He doesn't claim to be a grader, and that's fine. But he can still do the math on the coins coming in and out, right? If you see the standards starting to slip, isn't that a red flag?
-- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows
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<< <i>Hot off the presses. More details to follow... >>
Longacre, other than comments from the other board members in this thread, are there more details from a specific source you know of that are forthcoming?
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<< <i>I just got off the phone with James. He has been living in Austin with his family staying in Colorado. He has only been seeing them on weekends. He is leaving ANACS so that he can move back with his family and spend time with them. He has left ANACS on very good terms. >>
Well, on the surface, it would appear he is leaving them "high and dry".
However, if he left on good terms, then it would appear that a smooth transition of power is taking place. Maybe that is what both James and ANACS needed, so it could be a win-win.
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WINS#482
EAC#5255
CONECA#N-3902
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The fact that he didn't relocate his family may support the idea that it was a temporary position???
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But I have to wonder why accept a job in Ohio - and move it to Texas, when the family is in Colorado? I have to question that judgement - I would like to think there is more to the story.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
no big mystery... they needed to attract employees, that was not really happening in Ohio
(would you want to live in Ohio?)
Austin TX was a super place for a huge amount of reasons... cost of living, etc...
<< <i>
<< <i>Hot off the presses. More details to follow... >>
Longacre, other than comments from the other board members in this thread, are there more details from a specific source you know of that are forthcoming? >>
My mole tipped me off to this immediately prior to my announcing it (and scooping the boards). He is quite a squirrely fellow
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
ANA#R216999
WINS#482
EAC#5255
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<< <i>Hold the presses... I spend one afternoon on the currency forum and I'm now out of touch... What happened to Consuela? >>
I can't believe Consuela is gone.
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/collectors-showcase/world-coins/one-coin-per-year-1600-2017/2422
<< <i>... In my area of interest, (1950 to 1970 proof and SMS coins), ANACS used to be every bit as tough as PCGS. These days, I trust their grading of these coins no more than I trust ICG or PCI. There was a very real change in grading standards that happens to coincide with the management change.
Russ, NCNE >>
This is certainly a common perception. But we really need to see a written pop report of coins graded by ANACS after the transition to make a concrete comparison.
For example: How many 1957 Franklins had ANACS graded in PR69CAM prior to Taylors arrival?
How many of the same have been graded ater his arrival?
I would hazard a guess the difference would be very visible.
As to whether or not Taylor is singlehandedly responsible for the shift... I can't say.
BUT, as smoeone else pointed out earlier in the thread, Taylor was not JUST president. He was also their public relations/ customer service voice.
And as such, I think Flaminio is considerably justified in venting his frustation with Taylor as target.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
Jerry
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Who gives a crap. He left ICG. Now gone from ANACS. Good riddance. Who cares.
Jerry >>
Why go to the trouble to post if you feel that way?
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>I've seen this sort of response before...no fore thought, just ramblings of a disgrutled person. >>
Mark and you, I'm not disgruntled. I honestly could not care less what James Taylor is doing when it comes to numismatics. Not before and not now. No matter what anybody has said in this thread so far it makes absolutely NO difference. WoodenNickel, I gave it some fore thought and it all boils down to this: He's gone and goodbye to him. Now, that is fore thought, not a rambling, and not from a disgruntled person. HE'S GONE. SO WHAT. GOODBYE TO HIM. Who gives a crap.
Jerry
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
BTW I have sat beside Miles Standish and taken Advanced grading from him at the ANA Summer Seminar. There is NO WAY that Miles had anything to do with looser standards at ANACS.
If ANACS is going to continue slabbing problem coins they should go back to net grading all of them or they should do like PCGS and just simply never encapsulate problem coins. Anything else is deceptive crap like NCS details grading. Merely a scam to screw newbies.
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If Miles graded such coins there, he clearly had something to do with the "looser standards", whether he was for it or not. A grader at a grading company is part of a grading team and, like it or not, must often ignore or compromise his individual/personal grading standards in deference to those dictated by the grading company he works for and the grading team he works with.
(edited to add; he's a very nice person, and I wish him the BEST)
<< <i>so clearly, President or not, we don't know what Mr. Taylor was up against. >>
Mike, sadly, I think that's one of the few things mentioned in this thread that is clear.
.............A grader at a grading company is part of a grading team and, like it or not, must often ignore or compromise his individual/personal grading standards in deference to those dictated by the grading company he works for and the grading team he works with.
How could ANY true grading company dictate grading standards? I thought that an MS-65 was an MS-65. Doesn't everyone work from the same standard?
BTW, that was a rhetorical question.
<< <i>.............A grader at a grading company is part of a grading team and, like it or not, must often ignore or compromise his individual/personal grading standards in deference to those dictated by the grading company he works for and the grading team he works with.
How could ANY true grading company dictate grading standards? I thought that an MS-65 was an MS-65. Doesn't everyone work from the same standard? >>
One person's MS65 is certainly not always an other's, and what clearly defined "standard", which can be objectively and consistently applied to each coin, are you speaking of? Personally, I don't know of one.
Also, if, for example, you are stricter or looser than most in your grading and join a grading company as part of a grading team, you will likely need to modify/compromise your individual standards to a point, or be of little use to the grading team and company.
Edited to add:
<< <i>BTW, that was a rhetorical question.
You only THOUGHT it was.
<< <i>If ANACS is going to continue slabbing problem coins they should go back to net grading all of them or they should do like PCGS and just simply never encapsulate problem coins. Anything else is deceptive crap like NCS details grading. Merely a scam to screw newbies. >>
an absolutely ridiculous statement.
<< <i>
<< <i>If ANACS is going to continue slabbing problem coins they should go back to net grading all of them or they should do like PCGS and just simply never encapsulate problem coins. Anything else is deceptive crap like NCS details grading. Merely a scam to screw newbies. >>
an absolutely ridiculous statement. >>
I do not disagree with the statement above. In the old days (ie. last year), when you encountered an ANACS net graded coin, the pricing was concordant with the net grade. More recently, I see sellers trying to anchor the pricing to the "details" grade. I think newbies may be susceptible to being hosed in this scenario.
<< <i>.............A grader at a grading company is part of a grading team and, like it or not, must often ignore or compromise his individual/personal grading standards in deference to those dictated by the grading company he works for and the grading team he works with.
How could ANY true grading company dictate grading standards? I thought that an MS-65 was an MS-65. Doesn't everyone work from the same standard? >>
You guys must work for very unique companies, or you work for Presidents who are majority shareholders.
In the real world Presidents have no power or authority. Their job is to execute the bidding of the CEO or Chairman or whomever has the "money" and/or "signs the checks".
As President, you have all the responsibility but almost no say at all (meaning, no control).
As President, the "what" is decided for you and then you are measured on how well you figure out or implement the "how".
Of course in all big companies the "what" changes like the wind, henceforth Presidents who are not majority shareholders but are simply hired for the job typically never meet corporate expectations and separation typically occurs within 3 years or less.
As an entrepreneur I've been Chairman of a public company, started 2 other companies and sold one, and now I work for the 5th largest employer in the world. I'm a corporate SVP and currently report to the CEO of North America (who reports to a Global CEO). All-in-all I've had 2 other very senior level corporate jobs. In my finite experience and through my extensive network of executive colleagues, the above is what I've seen.
Just my 2 cents.
EDITED: There is one exception -- a President who is a patsy or a lackey can last in his/her position indefinitely. However, these folks tend to just be PCC's (pay check collectors).
<< <i>this isnt james taylor the singer, >>
Somebody better tell that to Carly Simon, then.