Is Beckett still the strictest card grading service?

Estil

I remember when I was in college (1999-2003) when I got back into collecting (once I had the money to actually buy what I really wanted; complete sets) and I always heard that Beckett (BGS) was much tougher on their grading standards than PSA was (so much so, in fact, that a BGS 9 = PSA 10 and BGS 9.5 = PSA 11; yes I know there's no such thing, but you know what I mean). Is that still true or has BGS gotten more lax in their grading as I've heard some on this forum say? I'm not sure how objective the responses are going to be (seeing as how this is a PSA owned forum after all), but I'd love to hear your takes on this.

fandango

not even close in 2006.......BGS has become very lax/careless in the slabbing, they slabb many cards that have been trimmed....i frequently get back BGS crads from PSA saying they were trimmed....either BGS has a bad ruler, or they dont care about 1mm size differences....i have seen WAY LESS NEGATIVE things over the last 3 years from PSA then BGS......plus the Graded card Review thing for BGS is a killer, as many cards that started at 9.0 end up in 10.0 after enough re-submitts....i dont understand this policy of resubmitting because they say the only disputes of a grade are over mislabeling, not misgrading...so WHY DO THEY ACCPET AND DO SUB BUMPS..isnt that a dispute over the grade? TIS SUBBUMP HAS KILLED BGS IN MY OPINION...you get those few people who go to ever show and submitt the same card 100 times till it gets bumped, then voila, you got a bgs 10..sad

lawnmowerman

Beckett is a joke. They used to be really tough, now they grade anything a 9.5. The garbage I have in bgs 9.5 slabs would be lucky to be a psa 9.

matt

f2tornado

I debated weather to send my first sub to PSA or BGS. Since I have mostly post 1990 material I opted for BGS simply because BGS appears to be more popular among collectors of the new chrome type stuff. PSA is by far more popular for just about any set through the mid 90's. This could change someday but that is the market as I see it. Here is my brief BGS experience. I submitted 21 (post 1990) cards at the 10-day service level and BGS waited the full 10 days to fulfill the order. Sounds like grades can crack early for PSA subs. My order arrived at my door late because either BGS or FedEx entered a slightly wrong address. I can't pinpoint blame so I won't. Out of my 21 cards, 14 of them landed the 9.5 and 7 landed a 9. Both of my 1990 Leaf Frank Thomas cards got the 9 when I felt a 9.5 was worthy. Upon inspection under a 10x loup you can see the slightest tinge on one the lower reverse side corners. That is getting fairly picky in my mind so the grade seemed tough on those. I don't have a PSA 9 or 10 to compare. I have two more of the same card heading to BGS now. Those two look even better if that is possible so will see how the grades fall. I cherry picked three Forsberg hockey rookies out of a pile of 300 and I figured I'd get a 10 for sure on one of them. Nope; only 9.5. I cherry picked one card out of a stack of 50 very condition sensitive 1994-95 SP hockey and that card only got the 9. It was half a sub off from the 9.5. Again, fairly strict in my mind. The following is just an opinion based on observation but it seems like most BGS 10 grades go to the big sellers/submitters of BGS cards. Whether this is preference or simple statistical chance remains to be seen. I will say a BGS 10 is like a PSA 11. It's a statistical fluke to get one and why a card in a BGS 10 holder fetches 500% of the price of a 9.5 despite extremely minute differences is a mystery to me. I only have one sub to comment on but BGS was very strict. I cannot comment on older stuff aside from what I said about general collector preference. You may wish to seek comment on the Beckett Message Board but be prepared to trudge through the riff-raff to get the better info.

I'm not sure what fandango's experiences have been with PSA/BGS but this is an interesting read. You have to read through to find out about a very interesting trip a 1993 SP Jeter card went through. Here is an excerpt (not my article):

1993 SP #279 Derek Jeter

This is another one from my failed PSA -> BGS experiment, but this one has a goofy history.

This card was originally in a PSA-8 slab. I broke it out and sent it to BGS, and it came back either 7.5 or 7.0. I wish I knew which, but I don't. All I remember is that I had a bunch that came back less than 8, so I sent them back to PSA.

Imagine my surprise when this one came back from PSA as trimmed. I sent it back again, and PSA didn't like it that time, either.

So this card has been a PSA-8, a BGS-7.0 or 7.5, and a PSA "trimmed" twice. So it would not be fair to get on PRO's case if they encapsulate this card.

The card is 3-1/2" x 2-1/2", which is what it's supposed to be, I think.

f2tornado

<< <i>Beckett is a joke. They used to be really tough, now they grade anything a 9.5. The garbage I have in bgs 9.5 slabs would be lucky to be a psa 9.

matt >>



If the cards are that bad then you should post scans of them for the rest of us to see so we can judge ourselves. If you really feel that way and can back it up then I'm sure others will take solid note of the situation. I do know this Montana rookie on CardTarget is a PSA 10 with this lousy centering on the back. Perhaps it barely sqeezes into the 10 category. Whatever.

fandango

my ebay experience has taught me there are a few monster sellers who have an in with BGS....most all of their stuff is 9.5....they are the trimmers who know how to do it, and know they get away with it through BGS..i have yet to see a seller who has questionable modern PSA cards...I have nothing against BGS, only when i see questionable cards, it always seems as though they are in a BGS holder and have a recent serial number....(bgs serial numbers are consecutively issued)...i wont name names, but i have a personal blacklist of sellers who Pawn these altered cards...Not oNE OF THEM sell PSA, all NEW BGS CARDS..... again, i deal in modern cards, not vintage...i would think for vintage the dichotomy is even greater!

then i have my personal experience of sumbitting many many BGS cards for crossover to PSA..guess what? about 40% come back trimmed! i give these trimmed BGS cards away to my little brothers cousins and nephews, as they are worth little in the real world, but are priceless to an 8 year old...

tedh111

BGS is slightly tougher then psa on most card issues, but is much tougher on a handful of issues...therestandars have loosened in the last 2 years to become much more inline with theo ther grading companies. they admit this, so i really dont see a problem... As for the trimming issue... Fandango, name the big BGS dealers who dont also sell psa cards? i cannot think of one! They all deal with both companies... Also, have you ever tried sending a high end psa to beckett? You will get the same exact kind of results with any of the companies.

lawnmowerman

<< <i>If the cards are that bad then you should post scans of them for the rest of us to see so we can judge ourselves. If you really feel that way and can back it up then I'm sure others will take solid note of the situation. >>



Okay first up we have a Faulk card with an upper right edge/corner issue. Its not a bad scan the upper right edge is smashed in. But this gets a 9 for corners

lawnmowerman

How do you like the "Pristine" bottom corners showing touches of white on this baby? Kinda hard to tell in the scan but a 10? No way

Edit to add: I bought this on ebay from BGSBrad. Dealer friendly service

lawnmowerman

Next. All "Gem mint subs" Favre. Wow! great gem mint bottom right corner, heh

lawnmowerman

Touched upper left corner, smashed in lower right edge (toward the corner)

Another bgs gem!

XanaduNow

BGS is far superior to every other grading company. In fact, Congress just passed a law that states "in the event of a war, whereby all valuable raw materials should be dramatically limited in domestic consumption/production, the only card grader allowed to still use plastic for their holders is BGS. Because they're that damn good."

That's a verbatim quote from Congress too. I'm not making this up at all. Look it up, it's in the paper.

Arthur

5STAT

While BGS 9.5 and 10's pull crazy money in todays market...on modern cards...it is again just part of the trend (or fad) that catches the market every couple of years. It will iron itself out.
They above anyone are playing the low pops game and people are buying into it...."look a Griffey 1994 Hot Gloves card..9.5" and it goes for $150 because the pop is in the basement. While at the same time people won't pay $35 for the same card as a PSA 10 because there are alot already graded.

Is it a fact that Beckett graded them harder?? NO...plain and simple PSA has been around for alot longer and therefore there are more of each card graded.

As for new the Beckett...don't just sit here and type what you "think" they are up to...get out from behind the computer...go to a big show and get to see them in action...and you will see the real deal. When someone grades a card and the customer is standing there discussing it's merits trying to get bumps..it takes away from the process. "why are the corners only 8.5??" .."well, the top left has a little lift...go press it down and bring it back and we'll see what we can do?".....2 hours later the cards is in a 9.5 holder..
Or the pay a little extra and get solid 9's and 9.5s...

I've posted here before about my customer who buys all my PSA 8 stars and high end cards....even alot of my 9's...and resubs them back to Beckett. Most are getting the 9.5...
He even buys my highend stuff out of the case...that I have previously scanned through and deemed not worthy of a PSA 10....and he's getting the same results back.

Now my PSA 9's getting cracked and resubmitted and coming back 9.5's....those I can see..because if I had sent them to PSA ..I had already figured they had shots at 10's....as for the rest...I deem it my bargain basement..

So for those results....somethings up!!

There's always a new fad..a new gimmick used to generate more $$$$$ in the hobby. 3-4 years ago GAI half grades were all the rage!! Why pay $100 for a PSA 9..when a PSA 10 is worth $2,000....."I'll sell you my GAI 9.5 for $800.00...it nicer than your PSA 9!!"

How many people fell into that trap??? Or bought this garbage because they figured the cards would flip into a PSA 10 holder at some point??

And look at where that has gotten them in today's market....lol....they are truly laughable!!

Does Beckett bring more $$$ on modern cards as 9.5 and 10....heck yah........are Beckett people swinging big bucks into their new Set Registry to try to fill all BGS cards...yes....but will it even out in the end.....of course. Look at what BGS 9.5 and 10's are selling for in 1986 Fleer Basketball..vs PSA 10...

Imitation is the best form of flattery!!

The trend will die off....more people will realize that they bought the holder..not the card..and bought into the hype....and dealers have figured out just "another" angle to turn cardboard into huge piles of cash!!

lawnmowerman

another Favre gem with a dinged right bottom corner.

Boopotts

<< <i>While BGS 9.5 and 10's pull crazy money in todays market...on modern cards...it is again just part of the trend (or fad) that catches the market every couple of years. It will iron itself out.
They above anyone are playing the low pops game and people are buying into it...."look a Griffey 1994 Hot Gloves card..9.5" and it goes for $150 because the pop is in the basement. While at the same time people won't pay $35 for the same card as a PSA 10 because there are alot already graded.

Is it a fact that Beckett graded them harder?? NO...plain and simple PSA has been around for alot longer and therefore there are more of each card graded.

As for new the Beckett...don't just sit here and type what you "think" they are up to...get out from behind the computer...go to a big show and get to see them in action...and you will see the real deal. When someone grades a card and the customer is standing there discussing it's merits trying to get bumps..it takes away from the process. "why are the corners only 8.5??" .."well, the top left has a little lift...go press it down and bring it back and we'l se what we can do?".....2 hours later the cards is in a 9.5 holder..
Or the pay a little extra and get solid 9's and 9.5s...

I've posted here before about my customer who buys all my PSA 8 stars and high end cards....even alot of my 9's...and resubs them back to Beckett. Most are getting the 9.5...
He even buys my highend stuff out of the case...that I have previously scanned through and deemed not worthy of a PSA 10....and he's getting the same results back.

Now my PSA 9's getting cracked and resubmitted and coming back 9.5's....those I can see..because if I had sent them to PSA ..I had already figured they had shots at 10's....as for the rest...I deem it my bargain basement..

So for those results....somethings up!!

There's always a new fad..a new gimmick used to generate more $$$$$ in the hobby. 3-4 years ago GAI half grades were all the rage!! Why pay $100 for a PSA 9..when a PSA 10 is worth $2,000....."I'll sell you my GAI 9.5 for $800.00...it nicer than your PSA 9!!"

How many people fell into that trap??? Or bought this garbage because they figured the cards would flip into a PSA 10 holder at some point??

Does Beckett bring more $$$ on modern cards as 9.5 and 10....heck yah........are Beckett people swinging big bucks into their new Set Registry to try to fill all BGS cards...yes....but will it even out in the end.....of course.

Imitation is the best form of flattery!!

The trend will die off....more people will realize that they bought the holder..not the card..and bought into the hype....and dealers have figured out just "another" angle" to turn cardboard into huge piles of cash!! >>



I'd like to agree with you, except I'm reluctant to underestimate the stupidity of my fellow collector.

Six years ago I thought the Lotto-mentality that fueled the purchase of high dollar boxes would have exhausted itself by now. Assume a limited collector base, and the fact that everyone has a threshhold for the amount of $$$ they're willing to consistently lose from busting boxes, and I couldn't see how the 'buy a $150 box and get $10 worth of cards' phenomenon could possibly last more than five years.

Silly me.

lawnmowerman

<< <i>If the cards are that bad then you should post scans of them for the rest of us to see so we can judge ourselves. If you really feel that way and can back it up then I'm sure others will take solid note of the situation. >>



I hope this helps.

Like I said BGS is a joke

Really though. I do have some "good" BGS cards. Bgs is way too inconsistent now and you take a gamble buying their junk on ebay. But, If you submit your own cards and are happy with how they look by all means keep doing it.

Matt

lawnmowerman

<< <i>BGS is far superior to every other grading company. In fact, Congress just passed a law that states "in the event of a war, whereby all valuable raw materials should be dramatically limited in domestic consumption/production, the only card grader allowed to still use plastic for their holders is BGS. Because they're that damn good."

That's a verbatim quote from Congress too. I'm not making this up at all. Look it up, it's in the paper.

Arthur >>

tedh111

Lawmowerman, i agree those cards are overgraded.. but one can find and post lots of overgraded psa cards as well as many have done here in the past... From my own submistting and crossing over experiences, beckett still grades tougher then psa and SGC. Its not by much, ut they are still slightly tougher from what i have seen...

Bunker

I started collecting cards again a month or so ago. Posts like this are very imformative. It would have taken me a long time to learn this on my own.

Collectors who don't read forums like this are really missing the boat imo.

schr1st

I have nothing but contempt for BGS. The only times I'll buy cards graded by them are if I have no other option, or if they are at a discount from what I'd normally pay. It's a shame too, since I still think they have the best holders in the marketspace. Too bad there are so many other problems with the company.

lawnmowerman

<< <i>Lawmowerman, i agree those cards are overgraded.. but one can find and post lots of overgraded psa cards as well as many have done here in the past... From my own submistting and crossing over experiences, beckett still grades tougher then psa and SGC. Its not by much, ut they are still slightly tougher from what i have seen... >>



I agree that there are some overgraded cards by all companies. It just seems Beckett is the leader of the pack. I have boxes and boxes of BGS slabs. I came to PSA for a reason, in search of a better product if you will. I grew tired of the low quality cards with the "shiny" gold flip because I payed good money for BGS slabs on ebay and got garbage in return.

Now buying PSA, of course there is an occassional disappointment but not nearly the amount as when I bought bgs

matt

f2tornado

Thanks for the examples, lawnmower.... not that I was saying BGS is any better or worse than PSA. I just prefer to see the evidence to back up an opinion rather than innuendo or hear-say. Seems we all agree some of the larger vendors may be getting some bumps. I know my recent BGS sub seemed accurate overall but I'm just a schmuck who'll probably send in one batch of 20 cards a month.

lawnmowerman

<< <i>Thanks for the examples, lawnmower.... not that I was saying BGS is any better or worse than PSA. I just prefer to see the evidence to back up an opinion rather than innuendo or hear-say. Seems we all agree some of the larger vendors may be getting some bumps. I know my recent BGS sub seemed accurate overall but I'm just a schmuck who'll probably send in one batch of 20 cards a month. >>


Sure, no problem

matt

Boopotts

My experiences with BGS have been a little hit or miss as well, but I will say this-- I sincerely hope that at some point in the future Beckett decides to put some serious marketing muscle behind getting their set registry program kicked into high gear. I can't believe they haven't done this already, since the revenue stream they could achieve by having a highly competitive registry would, at least at first blush, appear to be enormous.

chaz43

Here is my take:

#1. PSA

#2. BGS/BVG - SGC

#3. GAI

Let's put this to rest. chaz

fsjeter

I agree with those that say BGS has gone way downhill. I would only purchase older BGS labels with the grading on the back of the label.

Scott

XanaduNow

<< <i>My experiences with BGS have been a little hit or miss as well, but I will say this-- I sincerely hope that at some point in the future Beckett decides to put some serious marketing muscle behind getting their set registry program kicked into high gear. I can't believe they haven't done this already, since the revenue stream they could achieve by having a highly competitive registry would, at least at first blush, appear to be enormous. >>



I could be wrong but it seems to me as though PSA and Beckett almost have two different target audiences, if you will. For instance, if you go onto eBay and search for graded cards from the 10s - 70s you're hard-pressed to find many cards even graded by BGS. While not to this extent, the reverse seems also true when searching for late-90s to present. From my selling days I can tell you that I would pull more $ from a BGS slab than a PSA slab for post-2000 cards. To me, I think BGS is content with this "younger market" and I don't really see them doing anything to push vintage grading.

The set registries for both companies are also indicative. Two different companies with two different business strategies. Every company, even the mom-and-pop grading companies are going to end up with a certain amount of quality cards in their holders, it's just the law of averages. I don't think you can say absolutely that one company is good while the other is bad. All we have are our experiences and personal opinions. Like I've said many times before ... if I'm buying it or keeping it I want PSA.

To each their own.

Arthur

Boopotts

<< <i>

<< <i>My experiences with BGS have been a little hit or miss as well, but I will say this-- I sincerely hope that at some point in the future Beckett decides to put some serious marketing muscle behind getting their set registry program kicked into high gear. I can't believe they haven't done this already, since the revenue stream they could achieve by having a highly competitive registry would, at least at first blush, appear to be enormous. >>



I could be wrong but it seems to me as though PSA and Beckett almost have two different target audiences, if you will. For instance, if you go onto eBay and search for graded cards from the 10s - 70s you're hard-pressed to find many cards even graded by BGS. While not to this extent, the reverse seems also true when searching for late-90s to present. From my selling days I can tell you that I would pull more $ from a BGS slab than a PSA slab for post-2000 cards. To me, I think BGS is content with this "younger market" and I don't really see them doing anything to push vintage grading.

The set registries for both companies are also indicative. Two different companies with two different business strategies. Every company, even the mom-and-pop grading companies are going to end up with a certain amount of quality cards in their holders, it's just the law of averages. I don't think you can say absolutely that one company is good while the other is bad. All we have are our experiences and personal opinions. Like I've said many times before ... if I'm buying it or keeping it I want PSA.

To each their own.

Arthur >>



I agree. When I was talking about the BGS set registry I was thinking explicitly of modern stars- e.g., Derek Jeter, A-Rod, Mike Vick, and so on. As far as the demand for pre-1990 cards for set registries I agree, though, that having BGS trying to muscle into that would be redundant.

fandango

not only havent they got their regitsry up to speed, they are going into reverse...my entire Pujols collection, and everyone elses was erased from the registry..over 150 cards gone, i use it for insurance purposes but its really bad and useless now....what if that happened to psa regitrsy ..the s---would hit the fan.



lawnmower man,,,couldnt agree more about bgs!

Hockeybonkers99

I use both services for different reasons.

For my personal collection- PSA, insurance purposes, grading standard,ease of the registry and the price is right

For Ebay/re-selling - BGS (modern cards) - for some reason they still sell for a higher premium. (althought I do have some personal 9.5's that are nice)

Using both services, I have yet to be dinged for a big custom fees, see how long that lasts.


Adam