Weekly images from Old School & DGF...

downgoesfrazier

Current listings by Old School Images

downgoesfrazier

Can a Jeter image be MORE cool???

tennesseebanker

Some of the best yet !
I am trying to pick one I like the best, But I cant they are all awesome !

downgoesfrazier

TB,
Thank you! I am really unleashing the monsters these days. I am proudest of the new black & whites. There isn't much interest in them on eBay, but these images were still in the cans up until a couple of months ago...talk about fresh!

dgf

downgoesfrazier

Check out the lady behind Clark.. When I was in editing this photo at 200% she was the scariest thing I had ever seen. Her head is friggin' HUGE! She looks like an alien. When she is enlarged, she looks like "Skelator". Egads!

dgf

downgoesfrazier

tennesseebanker

I love the way the Madden/Stabler photo looks, I think I can hear "the Autumn Wind" Starting to Play

downgoesfrazier

TB,
PM me your address and your main player/team interests if you get a chance. Better yet, email me at oldschool.images@yahoo.com so I can keep it handy.
PA

downgoesfrazier

Hey guys,
I planned on listing this next week, but I just love the way they came out and wanted to share some truly rare stuff. This is from a complete game of negatives I purchased a couple months ago from 1973 Giants vs. Astros. Stretch homered and the photographer got three great shots. I have cleaned two of them. It's a really cool moment in time kind of thing. The guy blasted quite a few of 'em, and this one hasn't been witnessed since 1973!

NewJerseyMeatHook

That lady is, perhaps, the spookiest thing I've ever seen . . .

tennesseebanker

You mean the lady wearin the shades ? Maaaan ! Is that a cabbage or her head ?

downgoesfrazier

TB,
I have to say...she's not wearing shades! Those are her freakin' eye sockets! I zoomed in at 200 of full size to clean a scratch on the negative and damned near crapped my shorts! NJ, I'm with you...well put..."spooky".

dgf

nascar20

DGF- like the kingman photo,I remember watching him smack HR's on tv growing up

downgoesfrazier

nascar,
I added another Kingman today. Let's just say when he hit 'em, you KNEW they were gone. He was a monster!
dgf

downgoesfrazier

What's with the rush on Rod Carew? Three copies sold! I have never sold an image from the CU boards from a post that I can remember!
Apparently Germans LOVE David Hasselhoff and the CU boards love Rod Carew!
Thanks to all for your support!

dgf

baseballfanatic

That Carew image is one of the best I've seen in a long time. Looks like a man getting ready to go to work............

GDM67

The Wilt-Russ image is a Walter Iooss photo for Sports Illustrated, if I'm not grossly mistaken. It's always been one of my favorite shots of those two Titans locked in their eternal combat.

downgoesfrazier

Not mistaken at all. I obtained a handful of publication slides and they are mesmerizing. I have a few Ali and some footballl & baseball. I also obtained WS slides from '69 & '66. I'm hoping to add a very special one but it's in negotiation right now. I typically just "borrow" the images for a licensing period but there are two images I am actively trying to purchase outright. They're awesome. Stay tuned.
Here's another Carew...

33Goudey

What do u mean by "borrow"?

GDM67

Walter Iooss is one of the great photographers in America, today. He's worked for SI for years and has dozens of classic shots on his resume. (His most famous one is probably the iconic cover shot of Dwight Clark with Montana's pass on his finger tips, Everson Walls looking up in mute horror.)

Fabfrank

I have never sold an image from the CU boards from a post that I can remember!

Actually, the Mays you sold last week was to a co-worker of mine. I read your post and fowarded him your auction. He's a big Giants fan and loved the image of Mays. So you never know where a good thread can lead.

downgoesfrazier

Frank,
You are the man! Thanks very much. Perhaps I can offer you a 5x7 of your favorite player on the house? Just email me a few names/teams at oldschool.images@yahoo.com and include your address. I'll find something that you will like! Thanks again!

33,
sup.
<<<What do u mean by "borrow"?>>>

R U in that big of a hury to abb. such things as "u"...I find it obnoxious and annoying and generally don't respond to such dribble. I'm responding to this as you may not know just how full of myself I actually am. Check out my Willie Mays listing under questions recieved and you'll see what I mean. Generally, I think people that abbreviate like that are video game playing punks who need to engage their minds in something more meaningful. "Borrow" means I know an editor who allows me licensing for a limited time for a fee...now go learn how to communicate beyond the skills of the bushmen.


dgf

33Goudey

Uh, so sorry to have aggravated "you" with such dribble. I'm not a video game playing punk, just a dumb Canadian, eh. I will agree with you that you are full of yourself and add that you are also probably psycopathic.

downgoesfrazier

r u 4 real?

calling me a psychopath is an insult to all those fine psychopaths out there.
Canadian, eh?

downgoesfrazier

How is this for hair? Does this qualify as a fro...or just a lot of hair?

CON40

Phil;
Astounding new image of Russell and Chamberlain! This is indeed an Iooss image. Stunning. To obtain the rights to print and sell even a single image of his for a single day must have been a huge investment on your part. How do you plan to charge accordingly to cover the cost? What formats is it available in? And I know many photographers who "license" their images for resale have exacting standards for how the slide is to be reproduced in order to maintain the integrity of the artist and the image. Can you post the details on that for us all. I think it'd be a great learning exeperience for the board and a teachable moment for you. Sports licensing has become one of the most competitive and convoluted aspects of the business of sports and selling images of athletes and professional teams. I'd love to know how you have arranged to obtain these rights, from whom (athletes, artists, athelete estates, MLB properties, and the MLBPA for the active players (like Jeter).

I hope you can tell us how you negotiated it all. I have a client who has asked me to design a set of sports cards (all 4 major sports) and they have an attorney who I think is in over his head and your experience may be invaluable to helping them make this set a reality. Thanks!

downgoesfrazier

I'm running out right now...I'll chime in later with some details. I will say that I am in a unique situation that I can't disclose. It's pretty simple. I know somebody who has access and is a big shot at SI. It's as simple as that regarding the published stuff. There are numerous editor copies that a guy like me can get lucky with. The original film would be something else entirely. At the end of the day it is harder to enforce a copyright than people think.
I will say that when negotiating rights to an image of SI caliber, you will NEVER, ever, recoup the cost. If you guys think buying a PSA 10 is expensive, try prying an original slide away from the shooter. More details later,
dgf

pandrews

<< <i>At the end of the day it is harder to enforce a copyright than people think. >>



i dont know the first thing about this stuff, but a copyright is still a copyright, no?

CON40

Phil;
I am looking forward to the details from a few angles... as I mentioned, it may be helpful to a client of mine with those sports cards, and as an artist who occasionally licenses his work, I'm curious what the loopholes are by which someone may be using rights-managed artwork and not compensating for the usage, or worse, using it to exploit something the artist may not endorse and in fact, could be detrimental to the reputation of that artist.

Let's say you decide to use that Iooss shot on a package of Big Black Dong condoms. I'm sure Iooss wouldn't be happy about that, and neither would Russell, nor Wilt's estate. You would conceivably be doing irreparable damage to all three parties reputations. Are you saying there is no way copyright law can prevent that from happening? And nothing would happen to you (or the guy who gave you Iooss' shot) for doing it?

Griffins

<< <i>At the end of the day it is harder to enforce a copyright than people think >>



My attorney has never had a problem enforcing my copyrights. And it is very, very easy to register your copyright with the Dept of Copyrights- I do it once a month on the previous months work.

Griffins

Keith- Generally speaking, if Walter Iooss was an employee of SI at the time he created that image he has no stake in it- SI owns the copyright, as would any employer. But if he was a free lancer and didn't sign over full rights (they typically sign over 1 year rights), it doesn't matter who has possession of the image or copy of that image, it still belongs to him.
However, that doesn't mean he can do with it what he wants. He has to have releases from any person pictured in the image- whether they are the principal in the shot or a person in the crowd- for any non editorial usage, from an ad to packaging to a single print. I had to stop collecting reusage fees from an ad I shot when the kid in the picture turned into a mega star and they rescinded their model release. There was a case last year when a guy's image was on a package (coffee, or tea, or some beverage) for years and he never signed a release. He ended up with millions.

CON40

Anthony;
I did a little research on Iooss and this shot in particular. If it was shot prior to 1968 (it likely was), Iooss was still a freelancer with SI so he would own the shot, it's his intelllectual property. But, you are right, even though the concept of the shot and the slide is his, he cannot publish it woithout a model release from Russell and something from Chamberlain's estate (any idea what that would be?). If it were an MLB shot, Iooss would also need permission from MLB Properties (they own the rights to the team names, logos, and uni's).

But, it sounds like Phil is dealing with top people at SI and has found a way to circumvent these pesky legal issues that protect artists and models. God knows Iooss doesn't need the money, so why the hell should Phil be concerned with paying to 'license' even a single reprint of this image? I'm sure Russell doesn't care either, even though this photo was just featured in a 2004 coffee table book named Hoops that chronicles 175 of Iooss' most famous basketball images.

Hey, I do remember that model release case. It was the smiling mug of the guy holding the mug on the Taster's Choice label. I think he was awarded $13 million in damages.

CON40

Oh... just to clarify... MLB isn't IM-speak for milb... it's just my lazy abbreviation for Major League Baseball in case it confused you Anthony.

CON40

Anthony... I can tell you are a pro shutterbug... you specifically cited Iooss "created an image" and didn't simply "take a shot".

downgoesfrazier

Just checked back. sounds like you have all the answers.

downgoesfrazier

THIS image has a more interesting tale. Perhaps Griffins can enlighten us on how it was obtained and who owns the copyright.

Griffins

No idea, but the collages are very cool.
Con40 is the researcher, not me.

33Goudey

I'm just a dumb bushman, but it appears to me that Con40 and Griffins have laid out a pretty convicing case of copyright infringement. I wonder if Walter Iooss and MLB would be interested in seeing what is happening to their images.

Stone193

This is for sale on ebay right now.

I would like to infringe on her copyright!

downgoesfrazier

33,
Y don't U call M up?.... I have paid out the A$$ for my copyrights. What case of what are you talking about? Infringement of what? Dood, the cold weather isn't 2 good 4 U! Further, bonehead, they didn't even ELUDE to an accusation of copyright. They're just photo enthusiasts with more knowledge on the subject than the average Canadian. You are a clueless idiot....or is it moron? I digress..now, shoo! C'mon shoo! ... go away.

Anthony,
The collages are stuff I shot. One of them is mostly family & friends while the other is a trip to NYC from this summer. The Jeter is an image that I just fell in love with. A photographer named Jeff DuBowy (very talented) happened to capture it at the Yanks/Mets game this summer. He's not a baseball guy or sports photographer in general. Just a family guy with an artistic flare. I'm not sure he appreciated his work that much, but I loved it. I purchased the file along with an arrangement for sales. Good guy and TALENTED!!!
With the SI stuff, I can only divuldge (that can't be spelled correctly, is it?) this; I work directly for a man who has access to a lot of stuff. His copies are not originals-but duplicated copies for editing and layouts, etc. Still, they maintain the original integrity and fair quality. I can only reproduce them in small format and only with permission that has limits that are numerous. The upside is that I only have a few of them and I don't depend on them to bring in any profit. They are more "attractions" rather than core inventory. Typically, an arrangement usually lasts a calendar year. For those they're available to me for a month. The Russell/Chamberlain image has been published and has been available for public sale quite often in book form as well as hacked up flatbed scans on eBay and the like. The difference in my copies would be the quality. Because it is from a negative, I can make a large file and hence get an awfully sharp reproduction in 8x12 or 5x7, etc.
Keith really hit the nail squarely. I will never recoup costs on those. I just love the images. I have a 12x18 of the Wilt/Russell as well as a killer Ali that make the costs worth it. When I DO land special images from any quality source, it is a thrill! It's like finding an unopened case of '57 Topps for me. I open the "cans" and go through the negatives and come out with gems like these...



I recently obtained over 350 fresh, never seen before images from 1974-1979 and it's so exciting seeing them for the first time. Really common players like Ruppert Jones, for instance, come alive in youthful promise all over again. Here he is with the Mariners in 1977 just two weeks into his career...it's so cool. I wish everybody got into it the way I do. I bought those negatives outright--still the best way to do it, IMO. In the end I think I prefer black & white.

PA

Griffins

<< <i>When I DO land special images from any quality source, it is a thrill! It's like finding an unopened case of '57 Topps for me. I open the "cans" and go through the negatives and come out with gems like these... >>



I can certainly relate. I almost miss the old days of film when I'd go on a trip and then process 100 rolls of film- beat the rush I ever got opening presents on Xmas as a kid. Now you see them as you shoot them which is certainly cool, but I do miss the old way sometimes. And often as not I'd pass up a shot that I'd rediscover months later as my favorite. Sort of like listening to a good album years later and having a different favorite song.

I like the Jeter shot a lot- I'd love to see it pulled back a bit more, so you get more of the stadium, but it's great as is. Sometimes those aside moments tell a lot more of the action that the shot of the guy in mid swing.

Griffins

BTW- Walter Iooss did a really cool book on minor league baseball. You can get much closer and the backgrounds are often cleaner with better light (no high stadiums to block the sun). King Kellogg (Larry) used to be in pretty tight with the Portland Beavers and has some amazing shots of future MLB stars.

33Goudey

You paid Australian dollars for the rights?
I think you meant allude not ELUDE.
Don't worry, I'll go away as soon as I forward to MLB the pertinent information on your copyright infringement. I know enough to know that you can't sell images of current baseball players even if you have an arrangement with the photographer. I also know enough to know that MLB has a team of lawyers who are very interested in rip-off artists. Stop ranting and start respecting the law.

downgoesfrazier

Larry gave me a fantastic jersey from Portland. I think they were the Rockies sister then? Still? It's interesting how there are some parks that I love the stuff from and some I hate. Likely because of what you're talking about in terms of light. Dodger Stadium produces fantastic stuff. The best stuff I have these days is of my own players that I coach. Some of it I take and some I get from photographers who cover us. Here are a couple of really excellent images of guys playing the game because they love it...all of these guys are students of mine &/or play for me competitively...



Fritz: Make-Up call '06


Garramone: 3-R HR '05


Franklin: Regional GW run '06


Williams: 40th Run Scored '05

I have literally hundreds of shots like these of HS & Collegiate baseball that I've taken through the years or have obtained from local press in exchange for a paragraph. They add up over time. These are all from the last two seasons. The kid in the second shot is the most electric player I've ever coached. His tools are just awesome. Tremendous power, above average arm, will catch anything he can see and runs a sub 6.7 60....and he's only 5'6! What a player. As a TWELVE year-old he hit 20 homers and stole 80 bases in a 45 game season...and walked 38 times and scored 66 times. I easily overlooked the 30 strikeouts he racked up. What a great kid, too. Interestingly, he has great parents who are well grounded and supportive. Funny how the solid players and good citizens have--more times than not--a strong set of parents.
The shot of Franklin is scoring the GW run in the '06 regionals for us. Big win. We were underdogs against a bigger, hotter club. It was our day.
The top shot is the greatest kid on earth. He is playing at DePauw these days...Freshman. Dad's a photographer--go figure. Great stroke. His game is like a young Chipper Jones.
The last kid is a solid 2-sport guy (FB & BB). He somehow scores runs every day.
I love the amature stuff...

PA

Fabfrank

You are the man! Thanks very much. Perhaps I can offer you a 5x7 of your favorite player on the house?

Dgf- Thanks for the generous offer. I love seeing your stuff and I knew my friend would appreciate it. You don't need to send me anything. Just keep posting these great images for us.

downgoesfrazier

More Kong...



I took the bottom photo when I was 10 years old.

downgoesfrazier

Ahhh...palm trees n' football...
Now that baseball is over we can focus on images like this...

rw2win

Palm trees and football...What is that a picture of??? Cutting floor matereial at best!

downgoesfrazier

More football images listed tonight...






Here's a killer baseball one from tonight...

downgoesfrazier

Note to Drewsef (message board member),
I have added some Earl Campbell stuff. If any of you know Drew and think about it, let him know the Chronicle guy came through with the negatives and I have them. Gotta love Earl! I PM'd Drew but don't know any other way to reach him. Thanks!!!

dgf