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1833-The 4th informative picture thread covering the Capped Bust Half Series. Post your CBH's.
JRocco
Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
This is the fourth in a series of informative picture threads covering the lettered edge Capped Bust Half Dollars from 1807-36 in reverse year order. 1832 starts Sunday 10/29 1831 starts Thurs. 11/2 and this pattern continues on down.
General guidelines:
1. Members can simply post pictures, or include pertinent information like Overton marriage and diagnostics, or just ask for information about their pictured coin from other members. Please keep picture file sizes within reason for dial up members.
2. Ultimately, we would like to see at least one example pictured for each Overton marriage.
3. Thread starts are only on Thursdays and Sundays.
1833
There are 13 obverse dies and 14 reverse dies that produced 15 marriages for the year. There is one rare variety for the year, the O-115, which combines obverse 12 with reverse N.
Please look at the previously posted threads covering the years- 1836, 1835 and 1834
Here is an example of the 1833 O-101 R1, which utilized Obverse 1 with Reverse A
Some characteristics of this variety are:
Obverse- The 8 is higher than the adjacent 3
Reverse- 50C is high and tipped to the left. The 5 is tall with a heavy top crossbar that is higher than the 0, almost all crossbars in the shield extend into the left wing, and some on the right.
Pardon the scratches on the slab.
Sorry this is a couple of hours early Mozin, but I will be out most of the day tomorrow and I didn't want this posted late.
Lets have fun folks
General guidelines:
1. Members can simply post pictures, or include pertinent information like Overton marriage and diagnostics, or just ask for information about their pictured coin from other members. Please keep picture file sizes within reason for dial up members.
2. Ultimately, we would like to see at least one example pictured for each Overton marriage.
3. Thread starts are only on Thursdays and Sundays.
1833
There are 13 obverse dies and 14 reverse dies that produced 15 marriages for the year. There is one rare variety for the year, the O-115, which combines obverse 12 with reverse N.
Please look at the previously posted threads covering the years- 1836, 1835 and 1834
Here is an example of the 1833 O-101 R1, which utilized Obverse 1 with Reverse A
Some characteristics of this variety are:
Obverse- The 8 is higher than the adjacent 3
Reverse- 50C is high and tipped to the left. The 5 is tall with a heavy top crossbar that is higher than the 0, almost all crossbars in the shield extend into the left wing, and some on the right.
Pardon the scratches on the slab.
Sorry this is a couple of hours early Mozin, but I will be out most of the day tomorrow and I didn't want this posted late.
Lets have fun folks
Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
0
Comments
Great luster and golden toning. This is an Overton 112 (obverse 11, reverse K), which is a rarity 2.
The hallmarks are the 9th star being flat and the 10th Star recut with an extra point between the two upper points.
On the reverse, the A in STATES is higher at base than the second T, which you can probably see from the reverse photo.
just of note, the knobbed top and bottom "3" was used throughout the 1830's for this series.
Obverse: Star 10 is recut at upper right point.
Reverse: “TA” in “STATES” is rotated CCW. Tall “5” leans left. There is a center dot between crossbars 4 & 5 at left. “I” centered under left side of “T”.
<< <i>Here is my 1833 Bust Half. I don't know the overton number. Maybe someone can help. Thanks!
This could be O-102 R1. What I see in the pictures looks right, but other diagnostics need to be verified.
Obverse: Star 1 is recut around inside and lower points.
Reverse: "5" has a short very broad pointed top. "I" is centered under left side of "T". The fourth crossbar from the bottom extends into the left wing. Lines 2 & 3 of stripe 3 extend below the shield border.
This half does not have an Overton number, since it was not issued by the United States Mint, but is rather a contemporary counterfeit, made to pass in circulation in the late 1830s-1840s. It's Davignon number is 1-A (Keith Davignon, Contemporary Counterfeit Capped Bust Half Dollars), and is listed as "extremely common," which likely means that hundreds of specimens still exist. The reverse die was also used to make counterfeits of 1836, 37, and 38, all of the lettered edge, 50c type, and thus the last two dates being anachronisms.
This variety of counterfeit can be readily determined by the "thinness" of the numbers and letters, and especially the shape of the "5" in the denomination, which looks nothing like any mint issued half of this date. It is made of German silver rather than silver. Surprisingly I've never weighed it.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
<< <i>Could someone attribute this one please?:
Looks like the O-113
This variety shows an opening of the hair curl above the second 3 in the date as I believe yours does. As well as the 1 in the date having short serifs and being higher than the 8, with the 5 on the reverse higher than the 0. Look to see if A1 is recut at the right base for a positive ID to this one.
I've limited time to photograph my coins, so here is an 1833 that ANACS called a VF-35 and attributed as )-104
Even worn coins like this you can see the difference .Reverse diagnostics include broken upper left corner of
the shield,and a die defect from the base of the 5 to the milling.
Now lets see what I have for the 1832 thread.
Some diagnostics for Laced Lips 1833 O-106 R2:
Obverse: It is likely a graver’s slip caused a vertical like defect which joined Liberty’s lips, and the lips to chin. I tried for an hour to get this to show on my scans. I gave up trying.
Reverse: Right side of “I” under left side of “T”. Top of “5” is rounded and tapered to a point. “50C” is tall, high, and very close together. Rusted die pits caused die lumps in field above eagle’s head.
Some characteristics to look for are:
Obverse-Date is low and evenly spaced, extra large pair of segments below outer point of star 1
Reverse- 50C is very large and very high, 5 is recut on outer curve, second T in STATES is higher than A or E, left sided of T and I in line.
What are the odds!
I dont currently have an 1833 half yet, but I'm slowly building a set. 5 down, many, many more to go....and $$$.
Nice coins everyone.
Nice countermarked 1833.
Could it be an O-104?
Thanks
O-109,R3,but I could be wrong.Overton says star 5 has a split point toward the edge on obv.
Rev ,the 5 in 50 is higher than the 0,tilted left and the top is a pointed triangle.Also should have a die defect
line from the base of I in America,to the base of the C.Maybe you can see that in person.?
<< <i>1921obsession,you have a couple of coins that are giving me fits trying to attribute.This one appears to be
O-109,R3,but I could be wrong.Overton says star 5 has a split point toward the edge on obv.
Rev ,the 5 in 50 is higher than the 0,tilted left and the top is a pointed triangle.Also should have a die defect
line from the base of I in America,to the base of the C.Maybe you can see that in person.? >>
I appreciate your efforts on my behalf. Although I can confirm the tilted 5 in 50, the stars are too worn to be sure of the split, and I can see no die defect at the IC, even under the microscope.
<< <i>Here is another 104 but with a counterstamp.
Holy crap tydye.... a "Houck's Panacea" counterstamp.......what a score on that coin
Some diagnostics for 1833 O-103a R2 (This late die state, with stars and letters drawn to dentils, is no longer recognized by BHNC.):
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper edge of dentil. Miss Liberty’s forecurl is tripled, and extends upwards to the top of the headband. “18” is wider than “833”. Star 8 is flat.
Reverse: Upper left corner of the shield is broken. The center line of stripe 3 extends below the shield. Left and right borders of shield are extended at bottom, and cross each other to form an X. Two small dots between crossbars 3 & 4 at left. “50C” is recut and high with a very large “50”. Left side of “I” under left side of “T”.
Edited to replace my earlier mistaken 1834 post with the proper 1833 coin.
Some diagnostics for 1833 O-104 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points between dentils. Date is low and evenly spaced. Stars are usually sharp.
Reverse: “50C” is large and high. Second “T” in “STATES” is high. Some lines from first five stripes extend down below the shield. Left side of “I” under left side of “T”.
Some diagnostics for 1833 O-109 R3:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper edge of dentil. Star 5 has a split point towards the edge, and its upper and inner points are recut. Knobbed “3’s” are well curved.
Reverse: A die line joins the base of “I” to the “C”. “A” above “M” at base. “50C” is high with tall figures. “5” top is a pointed triangle; it is higher than “0”, and tipped to the left. Right shield outline is extended at bottom. “I” far left of “T”.
Some diagnostics for 1833 O-110 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points between dentils. Mostly flat large stars have broad points.
Reverse: A curved die line travels from the flag of “5” across through the “C” to the period. Second “S” in “STATES” is recut. Line 3 of stripe 4 extends downwards. “I” centered under left side of “T”.
Some diagnostics for 1833 O-102 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to upper half of dentil, and it is recut on its upper and inner points.
Reverse: A tiny knob, that could be an extension of a line in stripe 6, shows in feathers below shield border. Fourth crossbar from the bottom extends too far left. Lines 2 & 3 of stripe 3 extend too far downwards. High “50 C” has a broad short pointed top “5”, forming a triangle without a stand. “I” centered under left side of “T”.
I sold both of my 1833 O-115's. I cherried them both off of Ebay circa 2002. One was an XF original that I tried to make into an AU but when I removed the dirt and some of the tarnish there were the cleaning hairlines. I lost about $2,000 by tampering with it. But the coin only cost me $65 and it went for $1,750.
Funny story about this coin. I was afraid to tell the dealer to insure it for $3,000 so I kept my mouth shut. The dealer was an Ernie type of guy but at that time most of these bigger dealers did not attribute the halves. So anyway I finally got the coin in a regular envelop and it had fallen out of some kind of homemade holder and was flopping around in the paper thin envelop. Whew, was I ever relieved.
So the closest I can come to a cool 1833 is this bogus that Keith Davignon agrees is the finest known of the 1833's.
Sorry this grey-dirt original is not the best for viewing in a Show and Tell. ...but it's the only one I have.
(Maybe somebody can post a better one later.)
The Obverse die for the 1833 O-115 die marriage was obv. die 12, used immediately prior to strike the O-113.
It was the second of three uses for reverse die N. Reverse die N was used near the middle of 1832 to strike 1832 O-111. In the 1832 series this reverse die is called rev. die I. After 1833 reverse die N was used to strike the O-115 it was used again to strike an 1832 dated coin. This was the 1832 O-112, struck immediately following the 1833 O-115.
Quick identifiers:
(1) On the obverse the 1 has a short serif and is sharply higher than the 8.
(2) On the obverse there is a fork in the curl above the second 3. (Remember, O-113 has these same obverse identifiers.)
(3) One the reverse it is the only 1833 die marriage with a triangular top to the 5 and a short pronged end to the tip of the 5's top. (Refer to Peterson's book for a clear picture of this.)
Photos of the 1833 O-115, R5+:
Edgar
Edgar
Edgar
Edgar
Edgar
The obverse of this die marriage was struck using Obverse Die 12. This was the first of two uses of this die. It was used immediately after to strike the rare O-115, R5+ die marriage.
The reverse of this die marriage was struck using Reverse Die L. This was the second and last use of this die. It was used just prior to strike the extremely rare 1832 O-123, R7. (Only 6 specimens of the 1832 O-123 DM are known and they are only in Proofs.)
There are two key identifiers for the 1833 O-113 die marriage.
On the obverse the lower curl has a claw-like shape similar to an inverted M:
On the reverse there is a key shaped defect, like a depression, in the left corner of the shield:
Photos of my 1833 O-113, R2:
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
I think your Bustie is O-104 R1.
The O-110a is identical as the O-110 except there is a die crack on the reverse running from the rim through the lower pairs of leaves, claws and along the upper arrow shaft.
This die crack is hard to see in the photo. I have marked it with the red arrows.
Photos of my 1833 O-110a, R2:
I have no idea what the Overton numbers are on this one.
I just like the coin.