Will 2007 finally be Bert Blyleven's turn to go to the HOF?

Estil · October 21, 2006 6:23AM

Okay, all of you know about Mr. Byleven's 287 wins, 3701 strikeouts, and 60 shutouts in his career, along with a 3.31 ERA (not spectacular, but quite respectible for a man who pitched 27 years). But have a look at how he's done on the HOF balloting:

1998: 83/473 17.6%
1999: 70/497 14.1%
2000: 87/499 17.4%
2001: 121/515 23.5%
2002: 124/472 26.2%
2003: 145/496 29.2%
2004: 179/506 35.4%
2005: 211/516 40.9%
2006: 277/520 53.3%

Do you think based on his increasing support (he had a 13% increase the past year), 2007 (or maybe 2008) will finally be his turn? That would be so awesome for him to be standing there with Mr. Ripken, Mr. Gwynn, Mr. McGwire, and perhaps a few others (Jim Rice, Goose Gossage, and Andre Dawson each got over 60% in 2006, so...)? If you're going to the induction ceremonies in 2007, you'd better pack a good sized picnic lunch, and perhaps rent a room for the night. It could take a while to get through all the speeches.

ziggy29 · October 21, 2006 6:26AM

No, unfortunately not. I've been an advocate for Blyleven for years, but players who are historically "marginal" Hall of Famers tend to only get in when there are no first-ballot "locks" like Ripken and Gwynn (and perhaps McGwire before all the steroid mess). Some people feel like they have to vote for *someone*, which was a large reason why Bruce Sutter made it in this year.

Estil · October 21, 2006 6:29AM

<< No, unfortunately not. I've been an advocate for Blyleven for years, but players who are historically "marginal" Hall of Famers tend to only get in when there are no first-ballot "locks" like Ripken and Gwynn (and perhaps McGwire before all the steroid mess). Some people feel like they have to vote for *someone*, which was a large reason why Bruce Sutter made it in this year. >>

So you think he'll have better luck in 2008? Maybe so, but I'm not giving up on 2007. I mean, they do get to vote for up to TEN players on their ballots after all.

onlyanumber · October 21, 2006 6:36AM

Between 2008 and 2010 will be his best chance. The only lock in those three years is Rickey Henderson.

First year eligibles those years:

2008: Shawon Dunston, Travis Fryman, David Justice, Mike Morgan, Tim Raines, Randy Velarde
2009: Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Matt Williams
2010: Andres Galarraga, Edgar Martinez, Robin Ventura

Raines will get some consideration, as will Edgar Martinez. Time for the ballot survivors to be enshrined...

Estil · October 21, 2006 6:40AM

Oh yes, Mr. Martinez. He should go in as the very first DH. I mean, there's no question he was the greatest DH ever.

Axtell · October 21, 2006 6:52AM

<< Oh yes, Mr. Martinez. He should go in as the very first DH. I mean, there's no question he was the greatest DH ever. >>

Absolutely.

In addition to staying with the M's for his entire career, he epitomized what hard work can do for you.

drewsef · October 21, 2006 6:54AM

wow, 2008 hof available, I would have guessed that only Tim Raines only deserves mention as a very remote possibility of the Hall of Fame. You seriously can't even mention any of those other guys as potential HOF'ers can you?

grote15 · October 21, 2006 6:58AM

Absolutely.

In addition to staying with the M's for his entire career, he epitomized what hard work can do for you.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Axhole, but the only way that Martinez gets to the HOF is by taking a vacation to Cooperstown, NY.

ToppsCo1lector · October 21, 2006 7:07AM

<< Between 2008 and 2010 will be his best chance. The only lock in those three years is Rickey Henderson.

First year eligibles those years:

2008: Shawon Dunston, Travis Fryman, David Justice, Mike Morgan, Tim Raines, Randy Velarde
2009: Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Matt Williams
2010: Andres Galarraga, Edgar Martinez, Robin Ventura

Raines will get some consideration, as will Edgar Martinez. Time for the ballot survivors to be enshrined... >>

WOW; I expect 08 to be the year of the "marginals" getting in.

ziggy29 · October 21, 2006 7:19AM

<< Oh yes, Mr. Martinez. He should go in as the very first DH. I mean, there's no question he was the greatest DH ever. >>

There's no question he was the greatest ever to play half of the game. That will still be an obstacle, no matter how great a hitter he was.

Axtell · October 21, 2006 8:16AM

<< 

<< Oh yes, Mr. Martinez. He should go in as the very first DH. I mean, there's no question he was the greatest DH ever. >>

There's no question he was the greatest ever to play half of the game. That will still be an obstacle, no matter how great a hitter he was. >>

So are you saying AL pitchers should never get in? Hell they only play half the game.

By your own retarded reasoning any pitcher who was a piss poor hitter (that's all of em) shouldn't get into the hall because they only play 'half the game'.

MLB has deemed the DH a position - Edgar has played it better than anyone. Don't hate him because he's a Mariner and you hate me so much you can't see straight.

ziggy29 · October 21, 2006 8:44AM

<< MLB has deemed the DH a position - Edgar has played it better than anyone. Don't hate him because he's a Mariner and you hate me so much you can't see straight. >>

I don't hate the Mariners and I wasn't even talking to you, much less thinking about any supposed "hatred" you say I have for you.

Though frankly, based on your response here, you certainly seem to want to give me reason to.

grote15 · October 21, 2006 8:50AM

MLB has deemed the DH a position - Edgar has played it better than anyone. Don't hate him because he's a Mariner and you hate me so much you can't see straight.

Here's a classic example of why no one takes you seriously, Axhole. Ziggy makes a valid point about Martinez getting in as a full-time DH. After all, with the exception of Molitor who did play the field for many years before he became a DH, not one player who was primarily a DH like Edgar has ever been admitted to the Hall, so it's a valid point to be made. But you, with all your jealous hatred and insecurities, attack him with your typical delusionary paranoia about him "hating" blah, blah, blah. You're a gutless mindless troll and a hypocrite. Take a break from posting and let the air clean out on these boards. You pollute these threads with your ridiculous comments morning, noon and night. You got 13K posts already! Time to turn off the computer and leave the studio apt hovel you live in and get some fresh air for a change.

DirtyHarry · October 21, 2006 9:06AM

I think Bert will get in at some point in time, but not now.

Axtell · October 21, 2006 9:07AM

ziggy-

my apologies, I thought you were grote...I read through the thread, saw his inane response then yours, with similar avatars. My apologies.

<< 
Here's a classic example of why no one takes you seriously, Axhole. Ziggy makes a valid point about Martinez getting in as a full-time DH. After all, with the exception of Molitor who did play the field for many years before he became a DH, not one player who was primarily a DH like Edgar has ever been admitted to the Hall, so it's a valid point to be made. But you, with all your jealous hatred and insecurities, attack him with your typical delusionary paranoia about him "hating" blah, blah, blah. You're a gutless mindless troll and a hypocrite. Take a break from posting and let the air clean out on these boards. You pollute these threads with your ridiculous comments morning, noon and night. You got 13K posts already! Time to turn off the computer and leave the studio apt hovel you live in and get some fresh air for a change. >>

Groteboy-

why do you insist on mentioning my postcount? It has no relevance whatsoever to any discussion, other than to show your pettiness time and again.

If I am such a 'troll' and 'pollute', then why do you bother to respond? If I am so beneath you, then why waste your breath with a response? Why cloud and turn every thread into a pissing match?

Back on topic. Look, blyleven had a solid career, but he's not a hall of famer. Never led the league in wins, never led the league in ERA, just a solid pitcher who never dominated.

He's not deserving, IMHO.

grote15 · October 21, 2006 9:45AM

If I am such a 'troll' and 'pollute', then why do you bother to respond? If I am so beneath you, then why waste your breath with a response?

Mainly because you can't help yourself responding to every one of my posts with your hypocritical nonsense. And why do you keep honoring me with every post in your sig line? Obsessed much? In fact, I predict you'll respond to this post in exactly 5...4...3...2...1...

softparade · October 21, 2006 9:48AM

Edgar Martinez was lethal with the bat! BUT, he was about as lethal with his glove as toilet paper is to the a$$. No Hall for Edgar ...... definately not.

Axtell · October 21, 2006 9:49AM

<< Edgar Martinez was lethal with the bat! BUT, he was about as lethal with his glove as toilet paper is to the a$$. No Hall for Edgar ...... definately not. >>

But you are forgetting one key and vital aspect to your argument - it's not the DH's job to play defense.

SDSportsFan · October 21, 2006 9:50AM

I too, agree that Edgar Martinez belongs in the Hall of Fame. I'm just afraid he'll be treated the same as relief pitchers, and punters in football. We all have argued about which relievers belong in the Hall of Fame, but take a look at Ray Guy in football. The absolute greatest punter in history, and a big reason the Raiders were so great in the 1970s. Why in Hell is he not in the Pro Football Hall of Fame!!!!! (and this is coming from a lifelong San Diego Charger fan and absolute Raider Hater!!!!!)

Axtell is correct...the NFL and MLB have decreed that the designated hitter, relief pitcher and punter are legitimate, necessary positions in their sport. The best at each position should therefore be honored with hall of fame enshrinement!

Steve

softparade · October 21, 2006 9:52AM

<< 

But you are forgetting one key and vital aspect to your argument - it's not the DH's job to play defense. >>

TRUE, but even me as a AL fan knows ... the DH is bull$hit and should be put to bed. A guy like Edagr would have had zero chance to survive in the league if he HAD to play the field.

I know he was SICK with the STICK !!!! But the Hall of Fame? Nahhh

Axtell · October 21, 2006 9:57AM

<< 
TRUE, but even me as a AL fan knows ... the DH is bull$hit and should be put to bed. A guy like Edagr would have had zero chance to survive in the league if he HAD to play the field.
>>

If he HAD to play the field, he could have played first base (just like big Mac did) and been able to survive. But you are forgetting, no matter what the opinions are of the DH, it's a valid position that MLB has said isn't going anywhere. So on those grounds alone, he was dominant (7 time all star, 2 batting titles), he was among the best to ever play his position.

<< I know he was SICK with the STICK !!!! But the Hall of Fame? Nahhh >>

Isn't 'sick with the stick' the epitome of dominating at DH?

softparade · October 21, 2006 9:59AM

yes it is ax ...... this can be debated forever. We will see. I don't think Edgar is a Hall of Famer.

Axtell · October 21, 2006 10:01AM

<< yes it is ax ...... this can be debated forever. We will see. I don't think Edgar is a Hall of Famer. >>

So let's say the DH is obliterated from the rule books tomorrow...does that take away his contributions at the position when it was legal?

grote15 · October 21, 2006 10:09AM

Even if you accept the DH argument, Jim Rice and Andre Dawson are far worthier candidates for the HOF, IMO. Especially Rice, he leads Edgar in HRs 382 to 309, RBIs 1451 to 1261, and hits 2452 to 2247, and he played two fewer seasons than Edgar.

softparade · October 21, 2006 10:13AM

<< 

<< yes it is ax ...... this can be debated forever. We will see. I don't think Edgar is a Hall of Famer. >>

So let's say the DH is obliterated from the rule books tomorrow...does that take away his contributions at the position when it was legal? >>

No it dosen't. But the question is HALL OF FAME. And to me, Edgar is not a Hall of Famer.Let me say this though, the arguement of Edgar as a HOF'er is a better one then Don Mattingly or Kirby Puckett. Not that I want to take shots at Kirby.... but .... Hall of Fame? NO .... should not have happened. Shows you how lame the voting process is.

gregmo32 · October 21, 2006 10:43AM

To say Kirby Puckett is not a HOFer is a very difficult position to take. The only thing he lacks is extreme longevity. He was so good it was ridiculous. I was never a huge Twins fan or Puckett fan, but he excelled in every aspect of baseball and I cannot think of any reason that he would not be a HOFer besides that an injury ended his career early (but still after accumulating Hall of Fame stats). Huge accumulated career numbers are not a prerequisite for the HOF.

That said, sometimes they are enough to get you in eventually. I think Blyleven will get in, but not this year. Ditto Rice and Gossage.

And I don't think Edgar Martinez will make it, but he has a shot. He was a great hitter who started his career very late when compared to other HOFers. I don't think his DH status should be held against him, but it doesn't help him, like it does someone who was known as a great fielder. I am quite sure he would have been an adequate first baseman if he had to take the field.

Axtell · October 21, 2006 11:45AM

<< Even if you accept the DH argument, Jim Rice and Andre Dawson are far worthier candidates for the HOF, IMO. Especially Rice, he leads Edgar in HRs 382 to 309, RBIs 1451 to 1261, and hits 2452 to 2247, and he played two fewer seasons than Edgar. >>

Woah woah woah...when did I say Rice didn't deserve enshrinement?

So Rice has more home runs, 'Gar has him in BA and OBP...what's your point? Both were fantastic players.

soft-

what would your definition of a 'hall of famer' be? Wouldn't you say it's someone who dominated the game at their position? Meaning, would you hold a second basemen to the same offensive level as you would, say, an outfielder?

To me, a hall of famer is someone who dominated the position they played (the same argument I use against players who compiled numbers over a long period of time like Blyleven).

Edgar was a dominant hitter at the DH position....to me, that's what makes him a HoFer.

ToppsCo1lector · October 21, 2006 11:56AM

I don't know if on sheer numbers Edgar gets in; no doubt at DH for quite a long period he was the best and most feared. His career warrants HOF discussion.

gregmo32 · October 21, 2006 12:17PM

The "best at his position" argument is very much a factor, but it has to be an actual position. DH, which I have no real problem with, is not a position but a lack of a position. DH's should be measured by their hitting only. Let's not call it a position. DH's will be chosen for the HOF based on their batting records.

grote15 · October 21, 2006 12:43PM

Woah woah woah...when did I say Rice didn't deserve enshrinement?

Did I say that you said that? Another example of the village idiot spouting his nonsense. I merely stated that Rice is far more deserving than Edgar, plain & simple.

Axtell · October 21, 2006 12:46PM

<< Woah woah woah...when did I say Rice didn't deserve enshrinement?

Did I say that you said that? Another example of the village idiot spouting his nonsense. I merely stated that Rice is far more deserving than Edgar, plain & simple. >>

And the village chicken chit shows his ugly head...with a perfectly reasonable request to end this squabble and you wouldn't do it.

No, you specifically pointed out how Rice was superior to Edgar in power categories, conveniently leaving out OBP and BA comparisons.

So, grote, you willing to recant your accusations of my being a racist to end this dispute, or are you going to be a crybaby and not let the board have its rest?

grote15 · October 21, 2006 12:51PM

Get bent, clown, you had your chance. But I know that you can't help yourself responding to each and every one of my posts. That's why you're such a hypocrite! And Rice was a far better player than DH Edgar. Edgar's only shot to get into the Hall will be to buy a ticket.

Go ahead and respond to my post here, you know you're itching to and you can't help yourself. Maybe even use the italics quote box, too. Go ahead, 5...4...3...2...1...

zef204 · October 21, 2006 1:12PM

<< First year eligibles those years:

2008: Shawon Dunston, Travis Fryman, David Justice, Mike Morgan, Tim Raines, Randy Velarde
2009: Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Matt Williams
2010: Andres Galarraga, Edgar Martinez, Robin Ventura >>

What about Grace?

Axtell · October 21, 2006 1:17PM

<< Get bent, clown, you had your chance. But I know that you can't help yourself responding to each and every one of my posts. That's why you're such a hypocrite! And Rice was a far better player than DH Edgar. Edgar's only shot to get into the Hall will be to buy a ticket. >>

What chance? To never have the the biggest hypocrite here (YOU) never reply to my posts again?

<< Go ahead and respond to my post here, you know you're itching to and you can't help yourself. Maybe even use the italics quote box, too. Go ahead, 5...4...3...2...1... >>

And I could say EXACTLY the same about you...you can't help yourself, can you crackhead?

Why don't you go crawl back into whatever rat infested hole you came from, and never show your bandwagon, no-good, no-contributing ass here ever again?

Got it? GET LOST.

gregmo32 · October 21, 2006 1:21PM

Let's talk about sports.

Axtell · October 21, 2006 1:22PM

<< Let's talk about sports. >>

I couldn't agree more. A simple retraction is all I ask to make this clown disappear, and he won't do it.

grote15 · October 21, 2006 1:43PM

<< Let's talk about sports. >>

I couldn't agree more. A simple retraction is all I ask to make this clown disappear, and he won't do it.

Would you please stop begging, Axhole. It's very unbecoming of you.

Axtell · October 21, 2006 1:48PM

<< << Let's talk about sports. >>

I couldn't agree more. A simple retraction is all I ask to make this clown disappear, and he won't do it.

Would you please stop begging, Axhole. It's very unbecoming of you.

>>

No one's begging, clown, except you. All you need to do is say 'Axtell...I know you're not a racist', and this thing ENDS TONIGHT.

Are you man enough to do it?

softparade · October 21, 2006 1:49PM

<< soft-

what would your definition of a 'hall of famer' be? Wouldn't you say it's someone who dominated the game at their position? Meaning, would you hold a second basemen to the same offensive level as you would, say, an outfielder?

To me, a hall of famer is someone who dominated the position they played (the same argument I use against players who compiled numbers over a long period of time like Blyleven).

Edgar was a dominant hitter at the DH position....to me, that's what makes him a HoFer. >>

DH is not a position. It is a miserable experiment implemented in days far gone when pitching actually had the upper hand over hitters. First they knocked the mound down and then they added this silly silly "non" position to try and level the field. . So, TO ME, the designated hitter is NOT a position. And to me, a player that can't cut it in the field no matter how wicked the stick .... could never be a Hall of Famer.

grote15 · October 21, 2006 1:54PM

No one's begging, clown, except you. All you need to do is say 'Axtell...I know you're not a racist', and this thing ENDS TONIGHT.

Are you man enough to do it?

Get bent clown. Apparently, you have a hangup with this, I wonder why?

You ain't jetting jack chit out of me so get lost.

And I'm sure there are many other posters on here who feel the same.

You mock the existence of God in your sig line and then cry about religion being brought up inappropriately. What a hypocrite. And an idiot. And you have no problem offending others who believe in God in your sig line in the process. You, jerkoff, are the one who needs to get LOST!

Axtell · October 21, 2006 1:58PM

<< No one's begging, clown, except you. All you need to do is say 'Axtell...I know you're not a racist', and this thing ENDS TONIGHT.

Are you man enough to do it?

Get bent clown. Apparently, you have a hangup with this, I wonder why? >>

Because I am sick of tired kicking your ass up and down this forum, and so is everyone else. I offer you a simple way out.

<< You ain't jetting jack chit out of me so get lost. >>

Wow, quite the christian you are - oh wait, you've backtracked on that, too? Clown.

<< And I'm sure there are many other posters on here who feel the same. >>

All you need to do is retract your idiotic statements you've made about me being a racist, I take your name out of my sig line, and we will cease to reply to one another. Why are you so afraid of admitting wrong-doing?

<< You mock the existence of God in your sig line and then cry about religion being brought up inappropriately. What a hypocrite. And an idiot. And you have no problem offending others who believe in God in your sig line in the process. You, jerkoff, are the one who needs to get LOST! >>

So what do you care what I have in my sig line if you aren't a christian? Or are you simply bringing it up to start chit again?

Dude, it's in your hands: apologize and recant on calling me a racist, I'll remove the sig and never reply to you again.

IT'S ON YOU.

grote15 · October 21, 2006 1:58PM

DH is not a position. It is a miserable experiment implemented in days far gone when pitching actually had the upper hand over hitters. First they knocked the mound down and then they added this silly silly "non" position to try and level the field. . So, TO ME, the designated hitter is NOT a position. And to me, a player that can't cut it in the field no matter how wicked the stick .... could never be a Hall of Famer.

I agree 100%. If it weren't for the power of the player's union, the DH would have been abolished long ago.

Axtell · October 21, 2006 2:01PM

<< DH is not a position. It is a miserable experiment implemented in days far gone when pitching actually had the upper hand over hitters. First they knocked the mound down and then they added this silly silly "non" position to try and level the field. . So, TO ME, the designated hitter is NOT a position. And to me, a player that can't cut it in the field no matter how wicked the stick .... could never be a Hall of Famer.

I agree 100%. If it weren't for the power of the player's union, the DH would have been abolished long ago. >>

Really? You honestly believe the player's union is what is keeping the DH?

Good god....I fear for your children.

grote15 · October 21, 2006 3:09PM

Really? You honestly believe the player's union is what is keeping the DH?

Good god....I fear for your children.

That's funny, you begging hypocrite POS.

Estil · October 21, 2006 4:13PM

To everyone here who believes Mr. Martinez does not belong in the HOF because the DH is not a "real position".

1. "The DH is only playing half the game" -- The AL pitchers who don't bat (and the NL pitchers don't usually bat very well at all unless their name is Orel Hershiser) also only play "half the game". Also, they only play about twice a week as starters, while the DH and other positions play almost every day! Furthermore, what about Ozzie Smith? He was nothing to brag about at the bat, so how did he get in on the first ballot? Simple, he was the greatest defensive shortstop ever. Just like Bill Mazeroski was the greatest defensive second baseman ever, even though it took quite a few years for the HOF to recognize it. I'm just glad they did it while he was still alive.
2. "The DH is not a 'real' position" -- At one time, relief pitchers were probably not considered "real" pitchers either. Until about the 1980s or so, relief pitchers were generallly only "second string" pitchers who were not good enough to be starters. In fact, we had to wait until 1985 before the first true reliever, Hoyt Wilheim got in the Hall, followed by Rollie Fingers in 1992 and the Eck in 2002. And I doubt anyone can look at me with a straight face and tell me Mariano "only pitches one/two innings every other day" Rivera does not belong in the HOF. Not with those four World Series and six American League championship rings he played a HUGE role in winning, and I think he even was WS MVP at least once.

Forget about Mr. Martinez never fielding a position. The question is, are his overall career numbers worthy and most important of all, did he or did he not give the DH more respect and legitimacy among all other DH's?

And yes, I do believe him choosing to stay with one team will help his chances. Just ask Mr. Puckett (well, if you could ask him). I also think it'll greatly help Mr. McGwire because he too, chose to stay in St. Louis even though he could've easily gotten a ton more money. He simply loved the city and the fans too much to leave, and I greatly respect the man for that. Mr. Martinez deserves the same. And for God's sake when are the Mariners gonna retire his jersey?

grote15 · October 21, 2006 4:24PM

The anti-Mr. Martinez people, you gotta do better than that. Forget about him never fielding his position. The question is, are his overall career numbers worthy and most important of all, did he or did he not give the DH more respect and legitimacy among all other DH's?

I understand that you are a fan of Edgar's, and he was certainly a great hitter during his day, but if you consider his career numbers, even forgetting about the fact that he was a DH, I don't think he is worthy of the Hall. As I mentioned in a prior post, Jim Rice has much more impressive numbers than Edgar, and is much more worthy of the HOF consideration, as is Andre Dawson.

The analogy you make with pitchers is not entirely fair. Though pitchers do pitch once every five days, they have much more of a direct impact on the outcome of the game when they do play as opposed to a DH who basically makes one appearance at the plate every 2-3 innings or so. It's not a fair or accurate analogy.

Edgar deserves some consideration, and my guess is that he will garner about 25-30% of the vote, but he is far from being a serious HOF candidate.

grote15 · October 21, 2006 4:27PM

I also think it'll greatly help Mr. McGwire

McGwire is a cheater and deserves less consideration than Martinez, IMO.

Furthermore, what about Ozzie Smith? He was nothing to brag about at the bat, so how did he get in on the first ballot?

Obviously, Ozzie's best asset was his fielding, but he had more career hits than Edgar Martinez, so I that statement is not entirely accurate either.

Axtell · October 21, 2006 4:39PM

<< The anti-Mr. Martinez people, you gotta do better than that. Forget about him never fielding his position. The question is, are his overall career numbers worthy and most important of all, did he or did he not give the DH more respect and legitimacy among all other DH's?

I understand that you are a fan of Edgar's, and he was certainly a great hitter during his day, but if you consider his career numbers, even forgetting about the fact that he was a DH, I don't think he is worthy of the Hall. As I mentioned in a prior post, Jim Rice has much more impressive numbers than Edgar, and is much more worthy of the HOF consideration, as is Andre Dawson. >>

You are taking his numbers out of context. Look at the position he played, and quit comparing him to other position players. You don't take a reliever and compare him against a starter and say 'look how many more wins this guy has!' do you?

<< The analogy you make with pitchers is not entirely fair. Though pitchers do pitch once every five days, they have much more of a direct impact on the outcome of the game when they do play as opposed to a DH who basically makes one appearance at the plate every 2-3 innings or so. It's not a fair or accurate analogy. >>

It's an absolute fair analogy. They only play half the game...based on your own flawed premise, pitchers shouldn't be in the hall of fame.

<< Edgar deserves some consideration, and my guess is that he will garner about 25-30% of the vote, but he is far from being a serious HOF candidate. >>

But if he had played in ny, he'd be a first ballot guy. Seriously.

Now, you hypocrite, you ready to post that retraction, taking back those patently false accusations of me being a racist so we can bury this feud? Or are you going to be stubborn and continue it? Everyone here sees me trying, and everyone sees you pissing it away.

How about it tough guy?

grote15 · October 21, 2006 4:43PM

Now, you hypocrite, you ready to post that retraction, taking back those patently false accusations of me being a racist so we can bury this feud? Or are you going to be stubborn and continue it? Everyone here sees me trying, and everyone sees you pissing it away.

All anyone sees here is your obsession with me, clown. Get bent. And please, stop begging, you sound even more like a clown. Your fixation with what others think of you is truly pathetic. I wasn't even addressing you in my last post but you just can't help yourself, can you?

Axtell · October 21, 2006 4:45PM

<< Now, you hypocrite, you ready to post that retraction, taking back those patently false accusations of me being a racist so we can bury this feud? Or are you going to be stubborn and continue it? Everyone here sees me trying, and everyone sees you pissing it away.

All anyone sees here is your obsession with me, clown. Get bent. And please, stop begging, you sound even more like a clown. >>

This coming from a guy who posts a reply FOUR minutes after mine?

No one's begging, dope, I am simply trying to rid the forum of your foul odor, but it's apparent you aren't man enough to admit a mistake.

Typical ny'er, never admits to doing anything wrong.

GTFO of here you dirty troll.

grote15 · October 21, 2006 4:46PM

Typical ny'er, never admits to doing anything wrong.

GTFO of here you dirty troll.

Will 2007 finally be Bert Blyleven's turn to go to the HOF?

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