PQ or PQ for the grade or just exactly what does it mean.

IrishMike

Years ago I read a coin book about coins and in it was a quote from the President of one of the TPG's claiming there was no such thing as a coin PQ for the grade as it was not humanely possible for a grader to distinguish any further than just the grade, meaning if it says 67, that is what it is not a PQ 66. What brings this question to mind is the constant drumbeat that my coins are all PQ for the grade or I only buy PQ coins, etc. etc.

How many folks have to look at your coin and gasp before it really is a PQer or is this just a fignewton of our imagination? Until I joined this board I would look at a coin in a holder and say yes it is a 64 or 65 and I can see why. Now sense joining here, PQ has been injected into the equation. What makes a coin PQ or high end for the grade in your mind or is that terminology overused?

ziggy29

If there was no such thing as PQ for the grade, then all coins would be exactly in the holders they deserved to be in, and there would be no money in the crackout game.

Cladiator

It's all about the eye appeal baby and everyone's idea of what is eye appealing is different.

IrishMike

So the President of the TPG company was wrong?

IrishMike

I never mentioned anyone's name, but of course maybe you read the same book. I thought NGC too care of the eye appeal issue with its * designation. I guess what I am saying eye appeal is part of the grading equation, as is skin, luster, marks, caca etc. so what distinguishes a coin as PQ if all of that is taken into consideration when the grade is assigned? I have seen monster toners graded 62 and many AU and less original skinned coins.

IrishMike

This wasn't said off the cuff, it was a letter written by the author and sent to their dealers.

ABC123

Think of MS65.765 = PQ !

MikeKing

<< <i>So the President of the TPG company was wrong? >>



Unqualified YES.


PS, for me, PQ for the grade means that for the life of you, you can't figure out why the TPG's wouldn't grade it higher. Or, that personally/objectively, the coin is just spectacular 'for the grade' (the premise being that all MS65's are not alike). On the other hand, let me take this opportunity to say that I 'stole' or better I should say 'borrowed' a statement from you (out of respect), and that is about coins looking like 'cotton candy'. There are many people who will not just assign the term 'PQ' to a coin that looks like cotton candy, but they'll spend exorbitant amounts of money and create 'high level' Registry sets based on this 'cotton candy' factor.

airplanenut

This is a PQ coin--most MS65 Morgans do not have surfaces this clean, pop this strong, or frost this thick

Aegis3

There are three possible definitions of "PQ" I can think of.

1) Having a greater probability of being given a higher grade than the coin is given now, if regraded, compared to an "average coin," and certainly having a higher probability of being upgraded than being downgraded.

2) see "EAC choice."

3) For sale.

My opinion is that definition (2) is the one that makes the most sense. It has nothing to do with upgrades or downgrades, but is instead just a nice, "wow" coin. Further, if it did get upgraded (or someone graded it higher than someone else), it would still be considered a PQ (or choice) coin, even at the new grade.

Of course, it often seems that definition (3) is the most commonly used one.

BobGreene

I don't think there is such a thing as a PQ coin. There are, however, coins that have been incorrectly graded by third-party slabbers.

291fifth

If you are a collector trying to sell to a dealer, PQ does not exist.

jdsinva

Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding!

We have a winner. . .



<< <i>I don't think there is such a thing as a PQ coin. There are, however, coins that have been incorrectly graded by third-party slabbers. >>

Coxe

PQ for the grade means that I am a seller who wants you to believe that this coin is better than others in the same grade, deserves more money, but I am not going to open myself up to a dispute by calling it an upgrade candidate, which it clearly isn't if the upgrade is worth anything significant and I am selling it as is.

tradedollarnut

There are indeed PQ coins for the grade that aren't in the wrong holder. If you don't believe that, you haven't looked at enough coins.

Coxe

<< <i>There are indeed PQ coins for the grade that aren't in the wrong holder. If you don't believe that, you haven't looked at enough coins. >>



While true, 80% of the time (a WAG) the term is not used consistent with that. Sometimes though it is aligned with the admitted extra grade point for ownership.

123cents

<< <i>There's certainly some coins where it is just OBVIOUS that the coin is PQ for the grade. I think the concept of PQ addresses eye appeal more than anything. There are coins that just scream out at you, and regardless of the technical grade, I consider them PQ coins because they are just so attractive. I would consider pure blast white coins with original skin (that are accurate graded) or monster toned coins (that have not been grade inflated due to color) as being PQ coins. >>

morgansforever

<<This is a PQ coin--most MS65 Morgans do not have surfaces this clean, pop this strong, or frost this thick>>

I agree rocket man, thats a bad ass coin, it's got everything.

Morgans

airplanenut

<< <i>

<< <i>There are indeed PQ coins for the grade that aren't in the wrong holder. If you don't believe that, you haven't looked at enough coins. >>



While true, 80% of the time (a WAG) the term is not used consistent with that. Sometimes though it is aligned with the admitted extra grade point for ownership. >>

It may not be properly used, but it depends on who you ask. The morgan I posted isn't a 66, but compared to nearly every other 65 I've seen, it's superior.

roadrunner

When you finally realize that grading is a continuum and not a step chart, and that probably hundreds of dealers/collectors out there can grade to .1 or .2 on a fairly consistent basis, then you'll realize there is such a thing as PQ. If you accept that grading is a continuous curve then you have to have every level of quality in between (and continous pricing goes along with it). If you drink koolaid too frequently your mind will revert to a step function mentality that will constrain you to grades of MS 65.0 or MS64.0 and CDN or Blue Sheet bid.

I consider PQ to be more about adding up the luster and marks than anything. Of course strike and overall attractiveness play into it as well. If you can get 2 experts out of 3 or 4 to agree a coin is PQ, then it is. 1 out of 4 doesn't cut it, though you can get the premium price from the next guy out of 4. Just understand that over 90% of buyers cannot figure out PQ. Hence their votes don't count.
At auction it only takes 2 people out of a 100 to label a coin PQ. However in most cases those 2 geniuses will lose. Now if 30 out of 100 call it PQ, and the 2 geniuses bid it up high, the odds are more in their favor.

roadrunner

ajia

PQ means the coins for sale!

Lakesammman

I think the term PQ is overused, but the concept is correct. There are 65R IHC's for example that I wouldn't want to be stuck with and there are 65R's of the same date that I'll stretch for.

That is the PQ concept in reality.

RedTiger

Grading is a continuum, not discreet fixed points. Once upon a time there was no such grade as MS64. There can be a huge difference in price between a low end coin that snuck into a holder on the 10th resubmit and a high end specimen that has a 20% or better chance at the next grade higher. Auction results are the proof in the pudding time after time. Don't always believe what grading companies or coin dealers say. Sometimes it is said with a wink and a nod, sometimes it is said for self interest or self preservation.

Here is a recent thread with pictures that illustrates high end and low end with two gold coins
link to thread

Dog97

To me a PQ coin is not one that is borderline next grade but one with an amazing eyecatching attribute in the strike, marks, or luster department but that attribute isn't weighty enough to sway the grade on it's own accord.
What the old timers call eye-appeal. The only descriptive adjectives that collectors know nowdays describe color; rainbow, vibrant, colorful, plethora and all those other buzzwords, hell they can't even see the strike, luster or contact marks because the "color" is covering it all up, and they can only see the colors if they are standing on their head twisting the coin a certain way under a certain kind of light. A PQ coin is one of those sizzlers that blind you from 2 tables away with booming luster, or with a strike so sharp it cuts you, or with a puffy cheek as smooth as a baby's ass and all those other things we used to say before they toned all of the white coins.

IrishMike

<< <i>I think the term PQ is overused, but the concept is correct. There are 65R IHC's for example that I wouldn't want to be stuck with and there are 65R's of the same date that I'll stretch for.

That is the PQ concept in reality. >>



My thought in this scenario is that the 65 is more likely a 64.