Interesting Post On The Dealer Network Re: Modern Coins

wondercoin

"I HAVE BEEN SO BUSY IN THE OFFICE THE LAST 2 DAYS THAT I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO RUN MESSAGES OR READ TAPE. IF YOUR NOT INVOLVED IN THESE MODERN COINS I SUGGEST YOU START. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A CLASSIC RARE COIN DEALER BUT THE PUBLIC HAS SHOWN THAT THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT AND THIS IS WHAT THEY WILL GET. I THOUGHT WHEN I STARTED TO DABBLE 10 YEARS AGO THAT THIS WOULD HAVE A SHORT RUN BUT CLEARLY
THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THE BEST SUSTAINED MARKETS I HAVE DEALT IN. THIS IS MY 50TH YEAR IN COINS! YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO SELL THESE COINS. JUST LET PEOPLE KNOW YOU HAVE THEM AND THE PHONE RINGS OFF THE HOOK. ALL OF THOSE WHO KNOCK THESE MODERN COINS AND THE U.S. MINT APPARENTLY ARE NOT WILLING TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES. THE MINT IS REALLY OUR BEST FRIEND. THEY ARE BRINGING MORE COLLECTORS INTO THE
MARKET PLACE THAN ALL OF OUR COMBINED EFFORTS EVER COULD. I HAVE HAD MAJOR DEALERS COMPARE THESE COINS TO SHELL GAS STATION TOKENS GIVEN OUT IN THE 70'S. THESE ARE THE SAME DEALERS THAT WILL PROMOTE MS65 SAINTS WITH A COMBINED POPULATION OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS AT $1700 JUST TO SEE THEM DUMP BACK TO $1000.HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE
SEE THIS HAPPEN? THE MODERN DEALERS PROMOTE GOLD COMMEMS, SILVER COMMEMS, GOLD AND PLAT EAGLES WITH A TOTAL MINTAGE OF 5,000 TO 15,000. I KNOW WHERE MY MONEY IS GOING TO BE LONG TERM. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. YOUR COMMENTS APPRECIATED. BOB LECCE"

**************************

First, "old-time" dealers like Bob switching to near 100% moderns and then "old time" classic collectors like Oreville from our boards becoming "high bidder" on the latest ultra-modern US Mint product. What gives?

Wondercoin

tradedollarnut

IT GIVES ME A HEADACHE TO TRY AND READ THAT....

Cladiator

YEAH ME TOO. I THINK IT MIGHT BE ALL THE SCREAMING.

wondercoin

TDN - Darn it - I didn't want those caps in the title. Fixing it now. Caps in quote were as written though.

Wondercoin

Hyperion

further proof he's an old timer. caps insensitive.

AmericanCopper

You did what to whose dog???

Sunnywood

Well, I guess I've become a lurker ... I only post when someone shouts at me ... LOL

As for the issue, many dealers and collectors are feeling priced out of classic areas of the market. After all, Bob Lecce used to deal primarily in proof gold. I doubt he can supply and maintain an inventory in those coins in today's market. Oreville is a type collector ... but everyone likes to dabble in the latest hot fad of the moment.

Best,
Sunnywood

wondercoin

Sunnywood - I quoted Bob exactly as he wrote the post. I did not edit his language by removing his caps.

Wondercoin

Bear

Its too early in the day

for all of this shouting.

CoinHusker

For some reason, I feel like I'm being scolded when I read that.

claychaser

So what moderns are going to make us rich?

1. Modern commems slabbed in 69 and 70, or maybe 68-args?
2. Slabbed modern coins 1965 to date, such as Kennedys and Ikes?
3. Slabbed 20th century silver coins, like FBL Frankies and FS Jeffersons?
4. New mint products?

IMHO, if I can make some money slabbing "modern crap" it will mean money I can buy the stuff that I really like.

Tonelover

Knowing that Bob has been selling moderns for years I called him a while back to offer him some PCGS Proof-69DCAM stuff. He said he didn't really want to buy them, that he just certifies stuff he already has when needed. Perhaps he's changed his tune.

cladking

What's wrong with Shell oil tokens?

And they were used in the '60's.

cladking

<< <i>So what moderns are going to make us rich?

1. Modern commems slabbed in 69 and 70, or maybe 68-args?
2. Slabbed modern coins 1965 to date, such as Kennedys and Ikes?
3. Slabbed 20th century silver coins, like FBL Frankies and FS Jeffersons?
4. New mint products?

IMHO, if I can make some money slabbing "modern crap" it will mean money I can buy the stuff that I really like.


>>



The biggest percentage gains are and will occur in the coins made for circulation. This is and will
particularly affect coins that can't be found in mint sets and the finest coins which can almost only
be found in sets. The biggest gains will be in the low mintage stuff that the mint has been making
for collectors since 1982 and in some of the bullion coins.

Anything that either catches the mass market's fancy or is in extremely short supply might be affected.

RYK

First, "old-time" dealers like Bob switching to near 100% moderns and then "old time" classic collectors like Oreville from our boards becoming "high bidder" on the latest ultra-modern US Mint product. What gives?

Cisco in 1999.

oreville

<<<<<and then "old time" classic collectors like Oreville from our boards becoming "high bidder" on the latest ultra-modern US Mint product. What gives?>>>>>>>>

Well, I seem to do this sort of thing every 5 years or so. If you look at my old posts you will see the last time I get excited about moderns was when the buffalo silver dollars came out. I bought 165 of them from the US Mint and still own all of them in their original boxes RAW.

I did admit that I wanted to dabble a little on these reverse proof gold AGE because I sensed a true scarcity relative to the potential demand.

Just my way of recouping my mistake in not buying that 2004 platinum proof set from the US Mint in 2004 when I had the chance!!

Regulated

Moderns are just fine; however, it seems right now that the only people making money on them regularly are the dealers who slab them. I'm sure that will change as the market matures... Perhaps someone should put together a sheet for high-grade moderns in an attempt to regulate the market a little better. Any thoughts?

Russ

Personally, I wish these long time dealers would NOT discover the moderns market.

Russ, NCNE

mrearlygold

There's telemarketers selling these platinum coins for 5 grand to unsuspecting people and they are pitching them as "investments".

Think that's OK?

I don't.

BlindedByEgo

<< <i>For some reason, I feel like I'm in trouble after reading that. >>



AND I THOUGHT, um, sorry - I thought I was the only one

Anybody wonder how ol' Bob REALLY feels?

Interesting POV, though.

claychaser

A thought to consider. Do the telemarketers do us a favor by bringing money into the hobby? Yes, they charge too much. But they also have to buy coins to sell, creating some demand and bringing some money into the hobby. Of course, it likely pales in comparison to what the US Mint takes out.......

wondercoin

Regarding the comments on telemarketers - from my personal experience the Proof Plats have been an area they have largely avoided - after all, how can you promote and sell an item with a worldwide mintage as little as 5,000 coins (in great demand to begin with) and it takes you up to 6 months to find (10) pieces? For example, take a coin like the 2004 1/4 oz Proof Plat (sheets now at $1225 bid with mintage of roughly 5,100) or a 2004 1/2 Proof Plat (sheets now at $2,250 bid with mintage of roughly 5,000) or even a recent 2005 1/2 oz Proof Plat (sheets now at $1,050). Try to locate (10) fresh coins of each at full sheet price -I'll see you back in around 3-6 months! Hardly, the way telemarketers operate - they need products they get procure in large quantities - like MS65 Saints or MS or Proof Buffalo Gold for example.

Wondercoin

Russ

<< <i>Do the telemarketers do us a favor by bringing money into the hobby? >>



Short term, perhaps. Long term, no. Eventually the buyers discover that they got screwed, and many are so soured by the experience that they leave the hobby forever.

Russ, NCNE

RYK

Regarding the comments on telemarketers - from my personal experience the Proof Plats have been an area they have largely avoided - after all, how can you promote and sell an item with a worldwide mintage as little as 5,000 coins (in great demand to begin with) and it takes you up to 6 months to find (10) pieces?

On multiple occasions, Universal Coin and Bullion has pitched Proof Platinum Amercian Eagles to me.

I simply can't believe that - are you sure?

Yes, I am positive.



<< <i>Steelers suck! >>



No, they don't.

tradedollarnut

<< <i> Regarding the comments on telemarketers - from my personal experience the Proof Plats have been an area they have largely avoided - after all, how can you promote and sell an item with a worldwide mintage as little as 5,000 coins (in great demand to begin with) and it takes you up to 6 months to find (10) pieces?

On multiple occasions, Universal Coin and Bullion has pitched Proof Platinum Amercian Eagles to me. >>



I simply can't believe that - are you sure?

JrGMan2004

<< <i>There's telemarketers selling these platinum coins for 5 grand to unsuspecting people and they are pitching them as "investments".

Think that's OK?

I don't. >>

There's telemarketers and even DEALERS! pitching classics as investments...






Doesn't matter what segment you go into, there's always someone somewhere hyping any type of coin as investments...

That investment aspect is one thing that a lot of modern bashers pick on, but they ignore the fact that you've got classics that get just as much hype as "investments."

ABC123

Old School !

tradedollarnut

<< <i> Regarding the comments on telemarketers - from my personal experience the Proof Plats have been an area they have largely avoided - after all, how can you promote and sell an item with a worldwide mintage as little as 5,000 coins (in great demand to begin with) and it takes you up to 6 months to find (10) pieces?

On multiple occasions, Universal Coin and Bullion has pitched Proof Platinum Amercian Eagles to me.

I simply can't believe that - are you sure?

Yes, I am positive.



<< <i>Steelers suck! >>



No, they don't. >>



Cheater!

oreville

Heck, time to dump all your wheaties!!

Last week I got a telemarketing call to buy 5 pound pail of unsearched wheat cents.

"They are reallllly old."
"Not made since 1958!"
"100% copper!" (Did not even want argue with them on that one)
"Backed by the full faith of the US Government!" (So?)
"Prices have risen every year for the past 10 years "(probably true)
"For the bargain price of only $79.95!"



$79.95 plus s&h&i!!!!

Sunnywood

oreville, you can sell me that 1916-D Barber quarter, and then you will be able to buy all the platinum proofs you want !!!



Best,
Sunnywood

CoinHusker

Oooops

cladking

<< <i>I THOUGHT WHEN I STARTED TO DABBLE 10 YEARS AGO THAT THIS WOULD HAVE A SHORT RUN BUT CLEARLY THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THE BEST SUSTAINED MARKETS I HAVE DEALT IN. THIS IS MY 50TH YEAR IN COINS! YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO SELL THESE COINS. JUST LET PEOPLE KNOW YOU HAVE THEM AND THE PHONE RINGS OFF THE HOOK. ALL OF THOSE WHO KNOCK THESE MODERN COINS AND THE U.S. MINT APPARENTLY ARE NOT WILLING TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES. >>



Many of those who refuse to get involved in these coins as collectibles or as a marketable
commodity do not realize that the market for these has been only upward since it was born
in 1980. Movement is generally very rapid followed by years of leveling off only to spike
higher once more. This is probably the result of small hordes being released into the small
demand but due to the inefficiency of these markets (especially pre-2000) there may be
other explanations.

It was 1995 that these markets started increasing nearly in unison and to involve lower
grade coins. This was the era when the '83-P quarter began its climb to the $1000 per roll
level.

Many of these markets are probably ripe for another round of increases to loosen up some
supply. It's getting painfully difficult to find many of the coins again.

Naysayers should also consider that even the most common gold coins tend to have min-
tages that are insignificant in comparison to the aggregate investor gold demand in this
country. Premiums on these are much smaller than on many of the non-numismatic gold
coins from before 1933. This means that a collector can put together an extensive set of
nice high grade coins at virtually no numismatic risk (at least compared to the gold invest-
ment).

MrEureka

After 10 years in the moderns game, I find it curious that Bob is only posting a message like this now.

BTW, there are classic silver commems with mintages well under 5000. With the exception of the wonder coins, all are dirt cheap and very much out of favor.

majorbigtime

Modern crap will always be just that IMO

MrEureka

Modern crap will always be just that IMO


In 1899, a superb 1898 proof set was modern crap. Fortunately, modern crap ages.

CalGold

<< <i>Fortunately, modern crap ages. >>



Yes indeed. Why with age my brown box Ikes have turned from modern crap into old crap.

CG

RegistryCoin

<< <i>There's telemarketers selling these platinum... >>


Telemarketers can sell anything, but as far as mass telemarketing goes, this is simply not the case.


<< <i>...the only people making money on them regularly are the dealers who slab them. >>


This is simply not the case.


<< <i>Modern crap will always be just that.. >>


As was said about Rock 'n Roll 50 years ago, and is simply not the case...


Bob's comments were made on the Dealer Net. I'm sure that his opinions were appreciated, even IN CAPS.

tradedollarnut

<< <i>Knowing that Bob has been selling moderns for years I called him a while back to offer him some PCGS Proof-69DCAM stuff. He said he didn't really want to buy them, that he just certifies stuff he already has when needed. Perhaps he's changed his tune. >>



Needed to be said again....

granpagraf

Look at the Franklin Comm. set, not to mention the Marine Corps Comm.

Coxe

Bob can do his virtual scream until he has carpal tunnel syndrome. Does he make a market for moderns? That was Laura's (Legend's) challenge to all those sorts of claims. Yeah, he'll get Mint orders, slab 'em and sell 'em. Will he buy them though? Doubt it. While there is no question that an eager retail buying market is there, try to find the dealers who will buy them, and I don't mean like the scotsman sort of thing the other day. Go to Baltimore with a box full of PR69DCAM PCGS slabs and try to sell to every dealer with a BUYING sign up and see how fast their shutters close on you. This ultramodern Mint nonsense is not numismatics and has no significant two-way market except in speculative bullion trading based on gold spot. Limited editions are just like the same in any other manufacturer produced rarity. Could be plate firings or limited prints. They are Mint produced medals masquerading as real coins.