"Yanks' captain abandons ship"
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Derek Jeter has been a flawed captain, writes John Harper.
"If George Steinbrenner thinks that bringing in Lou Piniella is going to solve his Alex Rodriguez problem, and all of the bad karma it has wrought, he clearly isn't in touch with his ballclub.
There's only one person who can change the dispassionate climate surrounding the Yankees, and it's the reluctant captain, Derek Jeter. But if he hasn't been willing to embrace A-Rod by now, it's hard to believe anything is going to change.
Not that Jeter can help A-Rod hit the high fastball. Indeed, it has become clear that, for all of A-Rod's talent, his failures in the postseason are due at least partly to the fact that he can't catch up to the high-octane fastball above, say, the thighs.
Scouts have been saying it more and more - in critical situations, pitchers armed with enough firepower can attack A-Rod boldly up in the strike zone, usually with major success.
But the bigger problem is A-Rod's addled state of mind, the steady erosion of confidence that made him look clueless at the plate during stretches of the 2006 season, when he was guessing so badly that he was missing sliders by a couple of feet. And that surely is tied to his relationship with Jeter.
It is no news bulletin that A-Rod wants to be liked, accepted, loved, however you want to say it, by his teammates, especially Jeter. And the captain hasn't budged on the matter, to the point where an ex-teammate, who wouldn't use his name for fear of crossing Jeter, said yesterday it creates a certain tension at times.
"He won't let Alex in," the former Yankee said of Jeter. "Everyone in there knows it, and it bothers Alex and impacts the clubhouse."
The result seems to be a negative energy that reveals itself in times of crisis, such as the collapse against the Tigers. Where the Paul O'Neill-Tino Martinez championship teams were inspired by their bond as brothers in arms to play fearlessly, with a joyful all-for-one commitment, it's no coincidence that this group of Yankees has played with fear and uncertainty when pushed in the playoffs the last three years.
When they need to lean on one another, well, it's as if one doesn't trust the others to hold the net under the tightrope.
It's not only the A-Rod-Jeter dynamic. Since the high-end free agent shopping began in earnest five years ago, the clubhouse has become more a place of superstars living on their own islands.
A-Rod, Mike Mussina, Randy Johnson, Gary Sheffield, Jason Giambi, and, mostly because of the language barrier, Hideki Matsui, changed the way the Yankees interacted. Newcomer Johnny Damon tried to bring a sense of esprit de corps this year, and succeeded in loosening up the place a bit, but it's a long way from the frat-house atmosphere he created with the Red Sox.
Jeter sets the tone for everything the Yankees do, so while he got tons of credit, and rightfully so, when they won, he has to take some of the blame now for allowing the A-Rod mess to seemingly suffocate this team. He has kept A-Rod at arm's length, apparently all because he can't get past the famous Esquire article of five years ago in which A-Rod allowed his jealousy and self-esteem issues to surface for the first time.
It makes me rethink the whole MVP debate. I wrote a handful of times that I thought Jeter deserved the award this season, and I still think he did more on the field to help his team than anybody else.
But in light of the Motown Meltdown, and all that it revealed about this team, I have to question how Jeter could be the MVP in a season in which he wouldn't make the slightest effort to offer a hand when A-Rod was flailing in quicksand.
He refused on several occasions to support A-Rod publicly when the booing was out of control, and he had to know any comments of support would have helped the situation. Isn't that incumbent on him as captain?
Jeter did go out of his way to support Jason Giambi during the steroids fallout, but he wouldn't go anywhere near the A-Rod controversy. He should have been bigger than that, since he's all about team.
I don't see how Piniella changes any of that, even if A-Rod is comfortable with him from his days as a young Seattle Mariner, which is why the Yankees need to trade A-Rod, no matter what they do with the manager. Just convince A-Rod it's over for him here, get some pitching from the Angels, and move on.
Then the Yankees no longer will be paralyzed by the A-Rod soap opera, the chemistry has to improve and they will have taken an important step toward winning in October again.
Steinbrenner has a right to change managers if he wants, after these back-to-back first-round playoff flops, but if he thinks Piniella addresses the biggest problem the Yankees have, he needs to talk to some of his own players. "
Derek Jeter has been a flawed captain, writes John Harper.
"If George Steinbrenner thinks that bringing in Lou Piniella is going to solve his Alex Rodriguez problem, and all of the bad karma it has wrought, he clearly isn't in touch with his ballclub.
There's only one person who can change the dispassionate climate surrounding the Yankees, and it's the reluctant captain, Derek Jeter. But if he hasn't been willing to embrace A-Rod by now, it's hard to believe anything is going to change.
Not that Jeter can help A-Rod hit the high fastball. Indeed, it has become clear that, for all of A-Rod's talent, his failures in the postseason are due at least partly to the fact that he can't catch up to the high-octane fastball above, say, the thighs.
Scouts have been saying it more and more - in critical situations, pitchers armed with enough firepower can attack A-Rod boldly up in the strike zone, usually with major success.
But the bigger problem is A-Rod's addled state of mind, the steady erosion of confidence that made him look clueless at the plate during stretches of the 2006 season, when he was guessing so badly that he was missing sliders by a couple of feet. And that surely is tied to his relationship with Jeter.
It is no news bulletin that A-Rod wants to be liked, accepted, loved, however you want to say it, by his teammates, especially Jeter. And the captain hasn't budged on the matter, to the point where an ex-teammate, who wouldn't use his name for fear of crossing Jeter, said yesterday it creates a certain tension at times.
"He won't let Alex in," the former Yankee said of Jeter. "Everyone in there knows it, and it bothers Alex and impacts the clubhouse."
The result seems to be a negative energy that reveals itself in times of crisis, such as the collapse against the Tigers. Where the Paul O'Neill-Tino Martinez championship teams were inspired by their bond as brothers in arms to play fearlessly, with a joyful all-for-one commitment, it's no coincidence that this group of Yankees has played with fear and uncertainty when pushed in the playoffs the last three years.
When they need to lean on one another, well, it's as if one doesn't trust the others to hold the net under the tightrope.
It's not only the A-Rod-Jeter dynamic. Since the high-end free agent shopping began in earnest five years ago, the clubhouse has become more a place of superstars living on their own islands.
A-Rod, Mike Mussina, Randy Johnson, Gary Sheffield, Jason Giambi, and, mostly because of the language barrier, Hideki Matsui, changed the way the Yankees interacted. Newcomer Johnny Damon tried to bring a sense of esprit de corps this year, and succeeded in loosening up the place a bit, but it's a long way from the frat-house atmosphere he created with the Red Sox.
Jeter sets the tone for everything the Yankees do, so while he got tons of credit, and rightfully so, when they won, he has to take some of the blame now for allowing the A-Rod mess to seemingly suffocate this team. He has kept A-Rod at arm's length, apparently all because he can't get past the famous Esquire article of five years ago in which A-Rod allowed his jealousy and self-esteem issues to surface for the first time.
It makes me rethink the whole MVP debate. I wrote a handful of times that I thought Jeter deserved the award this season, and I still think he did more on the field to help his team than anybody else.
But in light of the Motown Meltdown, and all that it revealed about this team, I have to question how Jeter could be the MVP in a season in which he wouldn't make the slightest effort to offer a hand when A-Rod was flailing in quicksand.
He refused on several occasions to support A-Rod publicly when the booing was out of control, and he had to know any comments of support would have helped the situation. Isn't that incumbent on him as captain?
Jeter did go out of his way to support Jason Giambi during the steroids fallout, but he wouldn't go anywhere near the A-Rod controversy. He should have been bigger than that, since he's all about team.
I don't see how Piniella changes any of that, even if A-Rod is comfortable with him from his days as a young Seattle Mariner, which is why the Yankees need to trade A-Rod, no matter what they do with the manager. Just convince A-Rod it's over for him here, get some pitching from the Angels, and move on.
Then the Yankees no longer will be paralyzed by the A-Rod soap opera, the chemistry has to improve and they will have taken an important step toward winning in October again.
Steinbrenner has a right to change managers if he wants, after these back-to-back first-round playoff flops, but if he thinks Piniella addresses the biggest problem the Yankees have, he needs to talk to some of his own players. "
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John Harper, a columnist for the ny daily news wrote it.
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<< <i>Why don't you read the article, stownie? Jim Caple didn't write it.
John Harper, a columnist for the ny daily news wrote it. >>
I posted the Caple article. He calls for the trading of Jeter instead of A-Rod. His points have some validity, but it is mainly humor at the pinstripes expense.
Steve
edited to add:
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its one thing to be booed in opposing stadiums - that's to be expected. You always boo the other team's best guy.
But booing a guy at home? Ridiculous.
But please, back on topic about the article.
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<< <i>Arod doesn't have the heart to be in the pressure situations. Blaming Jete who carried the team when Arod couldn't take the pressure of a pennant race; well hell it sounds like an article Ax himself would write. Jete has no reason to buddy up with Arod, Arod is a grown man; what does he need someone to hold his dik when he pees too? >>
And here you go flying off topic again...stay on target!
The article is about jeter being a FLAWED captain.
Please read!
<< <i>
<< <i>Arod doesn't have the heart to be in the pressure situations. Blaming Jete who carried the team when Arod couldn't take the pressure of a pennant race; well hell it sounds like an article Ax himself would write. Jete has no reason to buddy up with Arod, Arod is a grown man; what does he need someone to hold his dik when he pees too? >>
And here you go flying off topic again...stay on target!
The article is about jeter being a FLAWED captain.
Please read! >>
He's not a flawed captain, he's the captain of a team of grown ups playing a childs game for more money than any normal person could imagine, he's not a baby sitter or cheerleader or shrink, he's the captain and he leads by example.
The Yanks do miss O'Neils heart/grit, but thats truly a hard quality to find in a player, for basically his whole career everyone called him Paranoid Paul, but he was a warrior and on the right team at the right time that needed his qualities.
As far as the 1st round exit goes, who knew that that lineup would go 20+ innings without scoring a run?, Who knew Kenny Rogers would pitch his azzz off and go lights out, who knew that Skipper would play musical chairs with A-Rod's position in the lineup and piss off Shef in the process, who knew?
Sometimes the right team gets hot at the right time and moves on, sometimes the right team goes cold at the wrong time and goes home, its just baseball.
I'm gonna file this under "Just when you think you've heard it all...."
<< <i>I thought that Axtroll said that Arot is the greatest player in baseball. Why would he post an article that suggests Jeter should breast feed him?
now that is GRADE A Funny !!!
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The Yanks got eliminated by a team just as good. Heck, even the worst team in the league has a realistic chance of winninga five game series.
"that's baseball," does sum it up best.
<< <i>In the spirit of the thread. Jim Caple upapologetic Yankee hater. >>
Thanks for that!
The original NY Daily News article was interesting too - and it sure struck a nerve with the Yank fans here, perhaps because it's true?
<< <i> The original NY Daily News article was interesting too - and it sure struck a nerve with the Yank fans here, perhaps because it's true? >>
Because WHAT is true Jerry? That article made a BILLION points. Some are valid, some are absurd. You don't see a difference just as long as the body is tilted your way. Gimme a freaking break.
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<< <i>
<< <i> The original NY Daily News article was interesting too - and it sure struck a nerve with the Yank fans here, perhaps because it's true? >>
Because WHAT is true Jerry? That article made a BILLION points. Some are valid, some are absurd. You don't see a difference just as long as the body is tilted your way. Gimme a freaking break. >>
The interesting question is whether or not Derek Jeter, as the captain and de facto leader of the New York Yankees, could have done more to make A-Rod's season more bearable, and by extention perhaps more productive. In other words, is that one of the captain's 'jobs', to publicly support players that he may not personally care for? You guys can argue that it isn't, and that's fine, but it's silly to dismiss the idea outright.
thats fair. But one can not just assume that more public support from Jeter would have made A-Rod a better player on the field. A-Rod has himself to blame for all of those errors, all of those comments to the media, all of those strikeouts with men on base.
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<< <i>Boo,
thats fair. But one can not just assume that more public support from Jeter would have made A-Rod a better player on the field. A-Rod has himself to blame for all of those errors, all of those comments to the media, all of those strikeouts with men on base. >>
A-Rod's a head case. I won't dispute that. But are the Yankees better served if Jeter doesn't publicly support him? And if the answer to that is 'no', then shouldn't Jeter have been more demonstrative in his support for A-Rod, despite what he may think of him personally?
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Instead, the yankees have a 'leader' who doesn't show any emotion, doesn't show any leadership ability - its as if the yankees made him the 'captain' by default - and not for any recognizable leadership quality.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: how would any one of us perform if, ever day we went to work, there were 50,000 people there screaming for you to fail? How successful do you think you'd be, if, day in and day you, you had people supposedly on your side booing you and wishing you failure?
<< <i>How quickly would the yankee fans have fallen into line and backed off of Arod's case if 'da captain' had actually stepped up and said something?
Instead, the yankees have a 'leader' who doesn't show any emotion, doesn't show any leadership ability - its as if the yankees made him the 'captain' by default - and not for any recognizable leadership quality.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: how would any one of us perform if, ever day we went to work, there were 50,000 people there screaming for you to fail? How successful do you think you'd be, if, day in and day you, you had people supposedly on your side booing you and wishing you failure? >>
Some guys can handle it and some can't. Ted Williams was loathed everywhere he played, and it didn't seem to slow him down much.
In the end A-Rod is responsible for his own performance. I don't see how that can be disputed. Whether or not Jeter could have tried harder to alleviate the hostility between A-Rod and the Yankee fans-- and whether or not he should have done so-- is another, and I think more interesting, question entirely. I won't pretend to have an answer to it, but I do think it's a fun topic to discuss.
I would think that if you see a teammate getting absolutely crushed by the media and by your fans, and you have the standing that you do as Jeter does in ny, then why not reach out to the press in an interview and say something along the lines of 'I don't know what result the fans booing him hope to accomplish - because it sure isn't helping'.
I don't know...but what exactly are jeter's responsibilities as 'captain'?
<< <i>How quickly would the yankee fans have fallen into line and backed off of Arod's case if 'da captain' had actually stepped up and said something? >>
That's just it - and that is the key point from that article, to me. Jeter did nothing to help A-Rod, but he apparently helped noted steroid user Giambi. It seems he let jealousy and personal feelings get in the way of helping A-Rod, not exactly a move the "captain" should make. I realize Derek Jeter is like Mother Theresa to you guys, but he looks pretty guilty of not doing the job here.
<< <i>
I've said it before, I'll say it again: how would any one of us perform if, ever day we went to work, there were 50,000 people there screaming for you to fail? How successful do you think you'd be, if, day in and day you, you had people supposedly on your side booing you and wishing you failure? >>
As Boopotts said, Ted Williams did it. And I said on another thread, so did Roger Maris and Barry Bonds. Isnt ARod supposed to be this good too? He isn't the highest paid player for no reason!
In this particular article, it sounds like ARod is more to blame than Jeter? Why? Because Jeter has a good relationship with everyone but ARod. That's telling me that ARod is the one with the problem. And if he wants to be as beloved as Jeter, then thats ARod's own mental instability. Looks like the jealousy is all on ARod's side.
Do I think ARod could overcome this? I suppose with the right "shrinking" he could. I just dont think he will ever have the acceptance from the fans because its already so far down the toilet.
Jeter is an excellent cheerleader in the dugout. Always the first one to be in the front of the line to congrat guys on a job well done. He often is standing up at the fence cheering on his fellow teammates. Everyone has their own leadership style. Dont expect him to be like Paul O'Neill. Jeter is a proven leader and its just stupid to question that.
And do we know if ARod even wants Jeter to step forward and defend him? Has ARod ever needed him before? For all we know, ARod has told Jeter to not defend him only to make him look even more weak....especially since he makes 25 mill a year. Can you imagine what people would say about ARod if Jeter had to keep coming forward and defending him???
All this was was an article to get some attention for the writer. There are going to be hundreds other articles why the Yankees didnt make it. Some may make a valid point here and there but most will be a load of crap.
<< <i>
As Boopotts said, Ted Williams did it. And I said on another thread, so did Roger Maris and Barry Bonds. Isnt ARod supposed to be this good too? He isn't the highest paid player for no reason!
>>
Barry Bonds has NEVER, and I mean NEVER, EVER been booed in SF. Are you out of your frickin mind?
<< <i>In this particular article, it sounds like ARod is more to blame than Jeter? Why? Because Jeter has a good relationship with everyone but ARod. That's telling me that ARod is the one with the problem. And if he wants to be as beloved as Jeter, then thats ARod's own mental instability. Looks like the jealousy is all on ARod's side.
>>
Please tell me what does Jeter's job as 'captain' mean? What are his responsibilities as 'captain'? Not one yankee fan has addressed this issue.
<< <i>Do I think ARod could overcome this? I suppose with the right "shrinking" he could. I just dont think he will ever have the acceptance from the fans because its already so far down the toilet. >>
And because Jeter never welcomed him, or stood up for his teammate, the ny 'fans' took sides - they sided with jeter. jeter could have quelled all of it and been more open with the guy, more open with the press, had his back - hey, isn't that what captains are for?
<< <i>Jeter is an excellent cheerleader in the dugout. Always the first one to be in the front of the line to congrat guys on a job well done. He often is standing up at the fence cheering on his fellow teammates. Everyone has their own leadership style. Dont expect him to be like Paul O'Neill. Jeter is a proven leader and its just stupid to question that. >>
So it's stupid to question what being the 'captain' means, when no one can tell me what it means?
<< <i>And do we know if ARod even wants Jeter to step forward and defend him? Has ARod ever needed him before? For all we know, ARod has told Jeter to not defend him only to make him look even more weak....especially since he makes 25 mill a year. Can you imagine what people would say about ARod if Jeter had to keep coming forward and defending him??? >>
All it would have taken was one time, one show of support for the guy. But jeter's jealous streak runs WAY too deep for that. It was apparent from the beginning that jeter envied Arod's obvious superior talents. Why else wouldn't he have his back every chance he could?
<< <i>All this was was an article to get some attention for the writer. There are going to be hundreds other articles why the Yankees didnt make it. Some may make a valid point here and there but most will be a load of crap. >>
Hmm a load of crap you took the time to write a lengthy reply to.
Let me guess, it's a load of crap if YOU don't agree with it, right?
Isnt it funny how you took the time to reply to what I wrote! LOL
Well Axhole, as far as Bonds is concerned, he still gets booed everywhere else he goes. Why is it ONLY contained to at home? And what about Williams and Maris? In fact, Mantle used to get booed when NY had DiMaggio. Such a weak arguement...but that what comes from a weak mind.
Looks to me that people believe Jeter should coddle ARod? Why? He's a big boy. He makes more than anyone else in the majors. Why all the babying? That just goes beyond being captain of the ship.
Im not saying that there could be a couple of valid points in that article...but that could be ANY hack article anyone writes. How many articles do you want found on why ARod sucks? I bet there would be plenty of valid points there too.
What it boils down to Axhole is that people like you cant think for himself.
My end of the discussion is done. I made my points...feel free to lie awake at night and ponder them. And feel free to lie awake at night obsessing over the Yankees and ARod. Which makes me wonder...do you fit a queen or king size bed up ARods arse? My guess for you, queen would be your choice.
Typical Axtell MO can be found here.
you get it all. You get the original misreading of a basic sentence. You then get the twist. The questions that lamely attempt to divert attention from his apparent ingnorance. you then get the same rebuttal a couple/few times even though any idiot by that point would concede that he/she misread or just made a simple mistake.
you then get his claim of victory.
the only thing lacking is his actions as a grammar policeman. God knows his posts in the thread are filled with many of his own errors.
Steve
You can find the typical axtell MO here:
Axtell in a nutshell
<< <i>
Well Axhole, as far as Bonds is concerned, he still gets booed everywhere else he goes. Why is it ONLY contained to at home? >>
Because, as my argument has stated time and again, Arod shouldn't be booed by the home fans. The fans in SF are FANS, they don't crush the hometown guy because they are jealous of his success. love him or hate him (and I hate Bonds), the fans in SF embrace him and love him - he's never been booed there. Perhaps yankee fans could take a lesson from him?
As far as you other dopes so far up jeter's ass to ever think he could possible fail, please tell me what you think a CAPTAIN's responsibilities include? I've asked time and again and no one has an answer. Maybe because you realize jeter doesn't do ANYTHING a REAL leader should?
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<< <i>How has Arod been successful? Cuz it damn sure can't be what he's done in the playoffs. >>
Hmm an MVP trophy isn't success?
PLEASE, tell me what jeter's duties as 'captain' include?
however, if you need the exact duties (if any) then i would write to the yanks and ask them. I doubt anyone here can answer your question and they are ALL smarter then you DOPE.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>How has Arod been successful? Cuz it damn sure can't be what he's done in the playoffs. >>
Hmm an MVP trophy isn't success?
PLEASE, tell me what jeter's duties as 'captain' include? >>
Not when you win one while sitting in the cellar of the AL West, or when you follow it up with batting .117 in the playoffs. Jete has a World Series MVP and 4 rings.
A captain is to lead by example, not wipe the butt of the overrated thirdbaseman who doesn't have the mental toughness to play big in the big games.
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"Mussina doesn't get hammered at all," A-Rod told SI. "He's making a boatload of money. Giambi's making [$20.4 million], which is fine and dandy, but it seems those guys get a pass. When people write [bad things] about me, I don't know if it's [because] I'm good-looking, I'm biracial, I make the most money, I play on the most popular team ..."
Jeez, Ax even gives the same excuses as Erod. No wonder we're all under the impression Ax has an infatuation with him. It couldn't be his post season failures, the fact that he doesn't stick up for his own teammates, or the fact everytime he leaves a team the club improves, could it?
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Axtell is a DOPE.
I deleted what i was going to write. what else does anyone need to know beside that?
Steve