GAI's demise is a comin...

EagleEyeKid

Went to a card show today to pick up some supplies.
It's the monthly card show at the Airtel Plaza in Van Nuys.
Hadn't been there in a long time. Steve Rocchi and his GAI booth
looked kinda sad. I remember several years ago when I attended this
show, there were people constantly submitting and picking up their orders
from this show. That didn't happen today. Kinda sad actually. They were there
waiting for some Dodger rookie named Klemp or Kemp (don't follow baseball) and
they (GAI) would gladly placed their sticker on your signed item for $10. There were
not many GAI holders displayed in dealer's showcases. Saw a lot of PSA (vintage to modern),
and some BGS. This show was once GAI king as all the dealers had them in their showcase.
I really don't think they'll be around that much longer with PSA now grading packs. What's
left for these guys?

Griffins

I think they have plenty of business with the Shop at Home market that they will survive regardless.
How is the Van Nuys show? I've never been, even though it's just over the hill. Hollywood Park is just about done, can't imagine this one would have much anymore.

stevek

Good riddance if they do go. Their pack slabbing authentication borders on fraud in my opinion, based on comments from their own pack authenticators which were posted in this forum.

EagleEyeKid

The Van Nuys shows used to be okay at best, but going down hill. Usually the same vendors. They always have autograph guests. It's runned by Naxcom. Once in awhile you get some new faces and those are the tables I would go first.....especially when all they have are raw cards and not one single graded card in their display cases or top loader boxes on display. I try to hit those early. I remember awhile back I ran into an older gentleman with his grandson and they were just unloading all kinds of stuff. I just happened to come in after 10 minutes after the show opened. The nice man let me sit there and patiently went thru his stuff with me and let me cherry pick everything and anything. I enjoyed the conversation with him and I honestly told him that he had a lot of nice stuff in raw grade, so why not get it graded? He would make a lot more. His reply was he didn't care for it and that's what's killing the hobby. He was old school and I take it he was saddened by what he's seen in the hobby and wanted to just sell everything or whatever he had left. I picked up a lot of gem mint cards from this guy several years ago. Have never seen him since. He probably packed it in.

The only reason I went to Airtel today was because my wife and I were craving Vietnamese food and there's a great Vietnamese restaurant about 3 miles away. No cards today (well, I picked up 6 Shaq RCs) , but good food made the day.

grote15

I remember awhile back I ran into an older gentleman with his grandson and they were just unloading all kinds of stuff. I just happened to come in after 10 minutes after the show opened. The nice man let me sit there and patiently went thru his stuff with me and let me cherry pick everything and anything. I enjoyed the conversation with him and I honestly told him that he had a lot of nice stuff in raw grade, so why not get it graded? He would make a lot more. His reply was he didn't care for it and that's what's killing the hobby. He was old school and I take it he was saddened by what he's seen in the hobby and wanted to just sell everything or whatever he had left. I picked up a lot of gem mint cards from this guy several years ago. Have never seen him since. He probably packed it in.

Unfortunately, for many collectors, graded cards have become the equivalent of stocks or commodities. The bigger dealers are all looking to flip and make whatever profit they can.

Boopotts

<< <i>I remember awhile back I ran into an older gentleman with his grandson and they were just unloading all kinds of stuff. I just happened to come in after 10 minutes after the show opened. The nice man let me sit there and patiently went thru his stuff with me and let me cherry pick everything and anything. I enjoyed the conversation with him and I honestly told him that he had a lot of nice stuff in raw grade, so why not get it graded? He would make a lot more. His reply was he didn't care for it and that's what's killing the hobby. He was old school and I take it he was saddened by what he's seen in the hobby and wanted to just sell everything or whatever he had left. I picked up a lot of gem mint cards from this guy several years ago. Have never seen him since. He probably packed it in.

Unfortunately, for many collectors, graded cards have become the equivalent of stocks or commodities. The bigger dealers are all looking to flip and make whatever profit they can. >>



Hasn't that always been the M.O. of major dealers? Flip and make $$? Although I do agree that grading hasn't been an unequivocal ++ for the hobby. There's a bad side to it too.

grote15

Hasn't that always been the M.O. of major dealers? Flip and make $$? Although I do agree that grading hasn't been an unequivocal ++ for the hobby. There's a bad side to it too.

True, but there are many smaller dealers/collectors who have gotten out of the hobby because of the reasons EagleEye mentioned. My point is that collecting is much more of a business than a hobby these days, and though that may have been the necessary evolution brought on by grading, there is something to be said for the old days of the hobby. Guess it just depends on your perspective as to which era is better.

Guru

Up until about 1 1/2 years ago I hadn't even thought about baseball cards. I had my old collection in the closet but never really pulled them out to look at them. Then my wife suggested that I pick up the hobby again. So, I did. I really thought it was going to be like the old days where you trusted the person you were trading with. Or you could trust the guy behind the counter to give you a fair deal. I was definitely wrong. I didn't even know about grading and what not till I was trying to sell some of my stuff not too long ago. I was in a small town that I routinely go to and it was suggested to me that I sell some of my dup's and commons to kids there for a cheap price because there wasn't really any card stores around. So, I made up about 25-30 binders full of dup HOFer's, commons, inserts and parallels. No one wanted them even for a low price of $15 a piece. I sold some singles, but these kids kept asking me, "Do you have any graded cards?" And I was like, um no. I had to pull one aside and ask him what that was about. When he told me that no one really buys cards anymore unless they're graded, I about vomitted.
It disgusts me what it has come to. I won't trade now within anyone I don't know personally. I have an inner circle of buddies I grew up with that still collect. We get together about once a month for pizza and trading. But as far as trading goes, I won't trade with anyone else. These guys at shows are sharks. What happend to the days of just getting a wax pack (at a fair price) and opening it up to be suprised buy something or nothing. I mean, wasn't there excitement in those days. I actually purchased my first graded card the other day. But turns out that it's a fake. Not the card, but the grading. It's some made up company that doesn't even exist which really sucks.
Point to make, the hobby will never be like it used to till everyone agree's to stop with the sharking, undercutting, and overall crapping on your neighbor every chance you get.
It really upsets me when I go to these shows and see these kids who are so anxious to trade the one card they've found that might be worth something and then only to have their dreams crushed by some crappy dealer. You know the kind that will take a card from a kid and trade for something less than. I'm not getting out of collecting, but trading has become next to impossible without first doing a background check on the people you trade with.

diamondman

Trading cards or coins or anything, it is only a good trade if both parties walk away happy.

TWOHOOKS

It seems like everyone remembers the past of sports collecting like the past of just about every other life experience.I started collecting in 1974 as a kid as well.Everything was much simpler then and collecting was a hobby not a business obviously since I was 11 years old.I wonder how many people on this board were spending anywhere near the amount of money in the 70's as they are now on this hobby.Everything was different in the world not just sports card collecting.Look at baseball itself.Also did you have the ability if you were looking for a certain card in a certain year to turn on a computer and had instant access to multiple sources instantly to find that card.

Everyone also mentions all these honest dealers that were around.It seems to me that there were just as many sharks as there are now as I know personally that card trimming was very prevalent in the 70's since I purchased quite a few myself and really didn't care at the time.The old "Near Mint" card condition was everywhere and if it wasn't near mint it was nothing a nice sharp pair of scissors couldn't take care of.Of course there also was much more available as well since people are always trying to rediscover they're youth,cards from 1950's & 1960's were available easily just like cards from the 1980's & 1990's are now.

I really think card grading has preserved many of the treasures of the past from being further altered and has kept the hobby alive.Can you imagine if there was no card grading and as much was sold on the internet as is now.Talk about sharks around.Its bad enough with card grading.

As far as GAI is concerned competition always make everyone sharper and honest so be careful what you wish for.What is amazing is that they can still turn a profit at the prices they are grading packs and cards at for the last 2 months with they're pricing.Shows how much the grading companies including PSA really make in the encapsulation process and how competitive they can be due to competiton.The graded pack price with GAI is less than half of what it was 2 months ago.Do you think if they weren't around PSA would not raise their pricing on pack grading.What would any company do without competition.I think GAI and SGC are not in PSA's league mainly due to they're websites.They make it much more difficult to check population reports,track orders,submit cards,half baked pseudo registries etc.They have both missed the boat and not realized the power of the PSA website which is as state of the art as there is in this hobby .I just hope neither goes out of business for the reasons previously mentioned.

ndleo

Is the Van Nuys show still going on? I heard it was moved or cancelled.

Buccaneer

I take exception to what Guru said. I was very active in the hobby/business through most of the 1980s, including working at two card stores and several SoCal shows. While there were tons more activity in the market pre-ebay, I look back at it now as being one big rip-off and con job: peddling junk for way too much money, the stupid games dealers play with packs and passing off millions of mediocre cards as if they were mint to the unsuspecting (like me).

f2tornado

I totally hear you Guru. I was never a fan of graded cards until very recently. I went on a small buying binge on eBay this summer and I noticed the card condition quality generally decreasing while the stated quality was increasing. After getting this garbage I came to the conclusion that graded cards have a space in the hobby. Grading will generally ensure the buyer the card is in certain state. This is especially important for online buyers. I've always said a card (or any other item) is worth what the highest bidder is willing to pay. If someone wants to more because the card is in a slab then that is the market at work. I figure there is no use selling gem cards at a market discount so I just very recently jumped on the grading bandwagon. There are some big drawbacks for the hobby when it comes to grading. The first is cost. The average kid cannot afford a PSA membership or the costs to slab cards. Then you have average Joe who has cards fhe discovered in the closet might never have heard of grading and he will not gather as much cash had he been aware of the servce. As for modern cards, those slabs keep those cards intact which may lead to a market glut down the road. There are a lot of PSA 9 Upper Deck Griffey Rookies but very few PSA 9 Nolan Ryan, George Brett, Rod Carew, and Robin Yount rookies. Perhaps the most significant drawback of grading is the available supply of hi-grade raw cards is decreasing every day. What becomes of the lesser grades? Many get sold on eBay with their various flaws to unsuspecting buyers. I have done some PSA 10 mining when buying raw on eBay but always try to properly state the condition of the ones that don't meet my criteria and get resold. A lot of what you see on eBay are '"recycled" cards which means if you really want that gem card you have to get lucky on the raw or buy the slabbed version which further serves to reinforce whole grading idea. I won't even get into the dealer sharks out there. We all know who they are and have probably dealt with them at one time or another. Not all dealers are "bad" but those that exist don't help the hobby aspect much

As for the original intent of the thread to discuss GAI... I think there is room for consolidation in the slabbing industry. IMO, there are four reputable slabbing firms out there: PSA, SGC, GAI, and BGS (excluding the BCCG joke). Having an asortment of grading vendors gives the collector a variety to choose from. If not for a little competition we'd all still be driving Model T Fords. Competition also keeps prices down and allows for innovation (like GAI's pack grading, BGS's sub grades, SGC's black insert, etc.) GAI may survive if it can find a way to compete with PSA (perhaps lower prices) or find a special nitch otherwise it may very well fall into he abyss or become absorbed by one of the other firms.

EagleEyeKid

Is the Van Nuys show still going on? I heard it was moved or cancelled.

Yes, the next one is Sunday 11/12/06. 10-4 PM . Autograph guest TBA. Free validated parking.....free beer & loose women J/K.
I believe it's a once a month show. You can always check naxcom.com for upcoming shows, and it's also sometimes listed in your Beckett.

Fletch1750

What is the shop at home business you are referring to. The only cards I have seen on TV are psa and beckett.

RonBurgundy

LOL. You take a shot at Global then acknowledge in the same statement that the show you saw them at is basically worthless. But hey, it's an internet message board, so it's ok to contradict yourself.



Stay classy,


Ron

RANDYMOSS84

Both the Van Nuys and hollywood park shows are a joke. I was a dealer at hollywood park and was sad to see the traffic so slow, I didnt even come on the last day as i basically bought some cards from the guys next to me who were busting cases of 2005 bowman chrome draft. It seemed most show goers wanted base and 1 dollar cards as my friend sold out on his common boxes, i have no problem with that but was angry as my display was mostly high end exquisite and vintage. As far as van nuys its the same way, i was a dealer the last time before this sunday and have always gone, not this time as its a waste of gas.

royalbrett

<< <i>
As far as GAI is concerned competition always make everyone sharper and honest so be careful what you wish for.What is amazing is that they can still turn a profit at the prices they are grading packs and cards at for the last 2 months with they're pricing.Shows how much the grading companies including PSA really make in the encapsulation process and how competitive they can be due to competiton.The graded pack price with GAI is less than half of what it was 2 months ago.Do you think if they weren't around PSA would not raise their pricing on pack grading.What would any company do without competition.I think GAI and SGC are not in PSA's league mainly due to they're websites.They make it much more difficult to check population reports,track orders,submit cards,half baked pseudo registries etc.They have both missed the boat and not realized the power of the PSA website which is as state of the art as there is in this hobby .I just hope neither goes out of business for the reasons previously mentioned. >>



Very good points.

sagard

GAI has it's niche with basically a half point to full point leniency on the flip. They won't go away and competition will keep PSA honest.