2005 ocean in view nickel DDR?

mach19

People are talking about a DDR ocean in view nickel, with the tree on the reverse. Can anyone confirm this

jonesy

New to me!!

rgl1345

Text

mach19

Thank you, This looks more like a cud?

Russellhome

It is not a cud. It is a genuine and fairly significant DDR - looking much like the doubling that occurs on the the 25c Oregon #1 DDR. This 2005 P 5c OIV DDR also happens to be a DDO as well -- a weak one - but strong enough for John Wexler to do a file ID on.



There are more OIV DDRs out there (just like the MN quarters). This one in the eBay auction is one of the better ones. It can easily be seen with a 10x loop -- which is a big deal considering how minor most doubled dies are these days. I found several different ones - in both mint sets and 6 coin WJ nickel sets. I've sent them in to be examined and attributed. They probably exist in business strike, too - but I have not found any. My guess is that there are going to be many more. But just like the MN DDRs - some will be signficant and others will be minor by comparison.

I guess Lewis and Clark transplanted a few Minnesota trees when they reached the pacific.

keez

I finally got around to looking at my 2005 Westward Journey Nickel Sets (6-coin). 2 of them have something extra on the tree on the right, 1st and 2nd branches up from the wave. The 1st branch has a vertical pointy thing that almost looks like the tip of a tree (all of it doesn't show up on my scan), and the 2nd branch has 2 extra things that extend out to the left beyond the regular branch. Did the best I could do with my scanner. What do you think? Do these two OIV 2005-P have a DDR?

mach19

<< <i>It is not a cud. It is a genuine and fairly significant DDR - looking much like the doubling that occurs on the the 25c Oregon #1 DDR. This 2005 P 5c OIV DDR also happens to be a DDO as well -- a weak one - but strong enough for John Wexler to do a file ID on.



There are more OIV DDRs out there (just like the MN quarters). This one in the eBay auction is one of the better ones. It can easily be seen with a 10x loop -- which is a big deal considering how minor most doubled dies are these days. I found several different ones - in both mint sets and 6 coin WJ nickel sets. I've sent them in to be examined and attributed. They probably exist in business strike, too - but I have not found any. My guess is that there are going to be many more. But just like the MN DDRs - some will be signficant and others will be minor by comparison.

I guess Lewis and Clark transplanted a few Minnesota trees when they reached the pacific. >>

Thanks I have quite a few mint boxes of this coin, too say the least.

keez

Mine look different than RussellHome's

keez

I appreciate this thread Mach19. It prompted me to look through a US Mint roll of 2005-P OIV I had put away. I found die cracks at 2:00 and 8:00 positions on a few of them in the roll. Also found some with doubling. I always put the coins directly from the roll into 2x2 cardboard holders before I examine them. The first time I had checked them is when I bought them last year. I took them out again last night to re-examine and found things I had missed the first time around. In time I'll figure out what is in the westward journey nickel set, as it is different than the one posted here. I was thrilled, however, upon taking that second look at the roll to find things I had not seen before. A big thank you for your posts and heads-up on 2005 DDRs.

MajorDuty

Wow. Some people have wayyyy too much time on their hands to be able to scrutinize the utterly minute details of tree limbs on these nickels, and the MN quarter, etc. and discover tiny doubling or variations that you really can only see under magnification.

Edited to clarify: Finding these things before you know what to look for or where. Discovery if you will. A lot of time, a lot of coins, and moderns to boot.

mach19

<< <i>Wow. Some people have wayyyy too much time on their hands to be able to scrutinize the utterly minute details of tree limbs on these nickels, and the MN quarter, etc. and discover tiny doubling or variations that you really can only see under magnification.

Edited to clarify: Finding these things before you know what to look for or where. Discovery if you will. A lot of time, a lot of coins, and moderns to boot. >>

I spent $20.00 on a mint set and sold it for over 1000% profit. It does PAY to take a look at what you are buying

mach19

<< <i>I appreciate this thread Mach19. It prompted me to look through a US Mint roll of 2005-P OIV I had put away. I found die cracks at 2:00 and 8:00 positions on a few of them in the roll. Also found some with doubling. I always put the coins directly from the roll into 2x2 cardboard holders before I examine them. The first time I had checked them is when I bought them last year. I took them out again last night to re-examine and found things I had missed the first time around. In time I'll figure out what is in the westward journey nickel set, as it is different than the one posted here. I was thrilled, however, upon taking that second look at the roll to find things I had not seen before. A big thank you for your posts and heads-up on 2005 DDRs. >>

KEEZ, on some mint boxes the (E) in liberty is filled in, & a small die chip under the second (T) in trust. On the reverse a Diagonal die crack going through the (1) and also a die crack in the (M) in america. All this on the same coin. I have this down to a three day span from the mint dated boxes. However not all of theese boxes have them. Thank you for your note. I think I should set one on e/bay as a rare coin P.S. Ihave a couple hundred of this error, will srart looking for the DDR.

JustGotRipped

I'm way too lazy to read all this.....

....are these mint set coins?

mach19

<< <i>I'm way too lazy to read all this.....

....are these mint set coins? >>

Yes my friend.

Russellhome

Turns out there is a bunch of 2005 P Ocean in View DDRs. I've posted a bunch of photos in another forum. So rather than post them all again, here is a link to that post. See link below...

LINK TO MY PHOTOS


Many of them are very interesting. The stronger ones can be seen without magnficaition and just about all of them can be seen with a 10x loop. I sent in a batch of them to Billy Crawford for verification. The timing was right - as he was just about to release his new issue of DVN. He took the time to add these new Ocean View Nickel DDRs to it before it came out. Well - it is out now and his photos are better than mine.

Billy Crawford's Die Variety News - (Nickel DDRs in issue #4)

FYI: This is a free, PDF based magazine. The new nickel DDRs are in issue #4.

keez

Thanks RussellHome for the link to the pics. Mine is an 005 -- in my westward journey nickel set

Russellhome

That CDDR-005 is an interesting one (and not only because I was the one that found it). Billy Crawford spent some serious time trying to figure out where the doubling was coming from on that one. We referred to it in our emails as the 'Rubits Cube' DDR - because it was a puzzle we could not figure out. The doubling is a light 'kiss' in the field, but it turns out that the offset is huge. Billy told me he used a '3D Stereoscope' to determine what the highest points on the high points were in the surrounding area. It was then he discovered that the doubling was actually coming from the trunk and the branches on the other side of the tree.

My favorite one is the 'Bird Beak' looking one -- it will be in Billy's next DVN issue. It doubles the length of that shorter branch and looks pretty wierd.



This one is pretty big. You don't need a magnfying glass to see all that extra metal.

mach19

Thank you for the post. Great job!!!!!!!!!

keez

On Crawford's Die Variety News page it's CDDR-005 and on RussellHome's link it's referred to as WDDR-015. Are the different attributors not using the same numbers on these?

WoodenJefferson

I usually don't side with anyone...but I think majorDuty has a point...to me a double die variety is not blobs on a coins devices or trailing off the devices flowing into the fields. Take a good look at the 1955 Cent/72/95 and the 1945 Jefferson DDR...no blobs, no 10x needed to detect that there is a ghost in the lettering...unscruppulous sellers are looking at every new coin being minted, finding these imperfections and calling them DD.

Russellhome

I did my photos before Billy had the chance to look at them. That coin happened to be a Doubled Die Obverse, too (it is WDDO-015). But that said, different attributors do assign their own IDs -- and usually they are different. For example, the better 2005 Ocean in View DDO (which again, happens to be a new DDR) has the Crawford assignment CDDO-002, Ken Potters ID is VCR#1DDO#1 - and Wexler's assignment is WDDO-004. It is the same coin - with just different file IDs depending on the attributor. Cherry Pickers' Guide varieties all get FSxxx numbers assigned. And the DDR assignment will be a different ID as well.

The MN Quarter deal is kind of a different story. They recognized this was going to be a big thing (being State Quarters) -- so they chose to coordinate assigning die numbers so that they assign the same number for each type. This type of coordination is great -- but it won't last. I have two quarters that I sent in to Billy Crawford -- and he can't assign IDs until the photos are examined by Ken Potter, who determines if they are new or not, and if they are new -- he assigns the new die number that everyone will use. It has been 6 weeks and I still have not heard what the die number assignment is. The process is too difficult to continue and it will likely end with these quarters and we'll be back to having different IDs from each attributor.

As for as the person who thinks that only the strongest doubled dies are worthy of collecting and everything else is a seller scam ... Give me a break! There are lots of collectors for minor die varieties. Look at Billy's photos. On most of these, you can easly see where the doubling is coming from (i.e. they are not just a die gouges). If these coins do not interest you, that is fine. Not everything interests me in numismatics either. But to call sellers of minor varieties 'crooks' and imply that buyers 'fools' is out-of-line. And comments like that are one reason why I now spend most of my time on other forums.

I do agree that there is a lot of coins being sold as 'double' or 'tripple' dies on ebay that are nothing more that strike damage junk. Most of the time, I think the sellers just don't know better, but sometimes I think they do and are just ripping people off. Recently, a machine doubled 1969 S 1c coin sold on eBay for over $200 -- and the seller clearly represented the coin as strike doubling. It bothers me that he seller even listed it -- as he knows it is junk and also knows that some people don't know any better. But my whole point here is that there is a difference between a true die variety and mechanical doubled junk - minor die cracks and minor cuds that some people sell as some sort of rarity. A 1955 1c DDO is NEVER going to happen again -- the kinds of die varieties that can occur with the single squeeze method are going to be minor by comparison. But don't knock people who collect these less impressive doubled dies just because it does not interest you. It would be nice if every collector felt like they were welcome on this forum.

mach19

I found one in the satin mint set

mach19

Found a hand full in the mint boxes also. All "P" mint. I will keep looking through the Denver mint.

Russellhome

Mach19

I'd be interested to see the Ocean in View DDR that you found in mint rolls. Can you post a picture? I found one weak business strike Ocean in View DDR -- but it was just barely listable. This is what mine looks like...



If yours is different, I'm sure Billy Crawford would be interested, too. Of all the variety professionals, I think he has the most complete listings of the known types and if you have another nice business strike DDR, I'm sure he'd love to see it. Below is a link to his website (see submission info at the bottom of his home page).

Link to Billy Crawford's Website

And FYI - I did a little trading with Billy (some nice DDO/DDR cents for some of the OIV DDRs) and he listed one of the OIV 'Bird Beak' variety on eBay (see link to the listing below). His photographs turn out much better than mine, and in the listing - he shows an overlay of where the doubling comes from. To date, this is the best Ocean View DDR discovered and it will be interesting to see if people are interested -- or tired of extra trees, rocks, branches (and now birds).

2005 P Ocean In View 'Bird Beak' DDR

And for anyone else who is interested in this type of thing -- check your business strike OIV nickels and see what you can find. I'd be willing to bet that this will be similar to the MN quarters -- there are probably a number of varieties out there. If you find any, please add them to this post.

mach19

I'M sorry I can't post a picture. However if you go up two limbs from the one you posted, There is where you will find the doubling. I hope this helps? This covers about 80% of the limb on the bottom. I have a bunch of BU rolls I have not looked at as of yet. This error is from the mint set. P.S. I am waiting for some coins from Billy now. When I receive them I will send him another batch.

Russellhome

I have looked through quite a few rolls of OIV nickels and have only found that one weak DDR shown above.

But I did cherry pick a new SMS DDR in a nickel set.



Turns out Billy Crawford has received this one already from someone else (CDDR-017). But it is new to me, and a pretty good one at that. What is that, a beer bottle in that tree? I can see the slab now -- the Budwiezer variety.