Coin World advertisers/ sellers - what is your experience?

BlindedByEgo

"Prior to slabbing coins becoming the rage I was skeptical of their Coin World ads."

So said a respected and even-handed forum participant in another thread.

What is YOUR experience, if any, with the typical one- or two-page seller in CW? Have you found that "BU" should have meant "Beat Up"?

I know that John Sarosi has been mentioned on these boards - in fact, I just today had the displeasure of seeing one of his coins, an "MS64" 1916 Walking Liberty Half Dollar that was in fact an AU, dinged-up, dipped and stripped monstrosity. This coin looked like it had experienced a long-term thick coating of PVC that ate into the surface, and was removed with everything but a metal grinder.

The insert in the flip said "fantastic luster"

So what is your experience? Any horror stories, or only positive results?

messydesk

My thoughts are that in general, the expected value of any given purchase from a Coin World advertiser is inverslely proportional to the amount of space taken per thousand dollars of stuff advertised. I don't have a Sarosi ad in front of me to check, though.

bigbadchad777

Coast to Coast sold me 2 1915 Panama Pacific half dollars: Both cleaned and one was a fake. Got a refund though. They said they had never seen a fake PanPac before but confirmed it a fake.

ANACONDA

ttt

BlindedByEgo

So there are either a bunch of gutless people out there afraid to post the truth, or a bunch of people who don't like replying to my posts. Either that, or everyones getting lucky on a Saturday night and has better things to do than post on the coin forum.

DieClash

<< <i>So there are either a bunch of gutless people out there afraid to post the truth, or a bunch of people who don't like replying to my posts. Either that, or everyones getting lucky on a Saturday night and has better things to do than post on the coin forum. >>



Nah. No conspiracy theory here. It's just that all active numismophiles are also college football fans. And this week has a full slate of grid-iron entertainment. Enough to take most away from these boards for a moment or two.

ChangeInHistory

G&F coin Galleries, Ellesemere, bad experiences. Coin Depot, Paul Sims, less bad experiences. L&C so-so.

Kind of ashamed that I went through 5 major ones that in some way or another showed the classic signs of being one of "those" coin dealers. (all their coins were PQ for the grade, we save on the grading fees and pass the savings on to you, big full 1 or 2 page ads, great coin to hold, etc)

intocoins

I prefer to look at coins in hand prior to buying and dont want to have to worry about getting a coin , not liking it , then returning it. Just my opinion, to much of a hassle.

Smoker

I went to Sarosi's jewelry store in Johnstown, PA, and his wife made it impossible to do any business. I was only looking at early Wash. quarters in MS and the coins were highend and prices were good. At the time (late 1980s) his ads were 1/2 page or smaller.

I was more mislead by articles praising Maurice Rosen as a guru instead of the ripoff he was.

xbob

Either that, or everyones getting lucky on a Saturday night It's Sunday morning now.

For Christmas a few years ago, I got a few Coast to Coast coins and found that "Choice BU" means cleaned AU for the most part. Then to throw my money at bad coins - I sent a Peace Dollar, a Walker Half, and a Morgan into PCGS and the got low AU grades on the Peace and the Walker and the Morgan BB'd for improper cleaning. I called C2C and was told "Don't try to 'make' your own slabbed coins. We have former PCGS graders working here who grade ours for selling and they'll tell you it's all just opinion". OK- True - not a good idea to submit coins from them, but former PCGS graders calling them Choice BU - I don't believe it.

Then I included the Morgan in an ANACS submission and it came back MS62. Go figure. Still not "choice".

I also ordered a "Choice BU" 1913 TY1 Nickel from Mount Vernon. It was covered with PVC, so I sent it back and I got a new one back pretty quickly. I sent it in to a free Collector Club PCGS submission and got the BB for cleaned. So I just put it into my Type album and it's getting some nice rim toning now.

Last year I was in a large local coin shop here in MD and wanted to look at AU SLQ's. The dealer pulled out their box and said, "We don't have much in the AU range. Since we live near 3 of the biggest mail order dealers, they come in and buy most of our AU coins, dip 'em, and sell them as BU".

In many cases the coins in those ads are at full retail AU prices, seeming a bargain for "Choice BU" coins, but you get what you pay for - without the original surfaces.

I wasted a little money - that's true. But I learned a few things from the experience so it wasn't a total loss. In my opinion (as well as PCGS's based on my few submissions), and from reading posts on this forum, those "Choice BU" kind of sellers aren't honestly graded and most likely cleaned.

itsnotjustme

<< <i>We have former PCGS graders working here who grade ours for selling and they'll tell you it's all just opinion". >>

I think that would be a good reason they are former PCGS graders!

PipestonePete

Ditto on a Coast to Coast "BU" Walking Liberty Half and "BU" Standing Liberty Quarter.....whizzed AU's at best.

roadrunner

Prior to the slab era my return rate on CW advertisers was 90%.
I pretty much gave up on the lot of them long ago. My thumbrule today would be that if you are keeping more than 25% of what comes out of Coin World sight-unseen, you probably aren't picky enough. And that's for top tiered slabbed coins. If you're doing raw, I'd still go with 75-90% return....a veritable field of land mines.

I am surprised that you had a bad experience with Ellsemere. I've bought a number of coins from them over the years but only sight seen. They do ask strong prices for some of their coins and sometimes not enough in areas they don't specialize in (ie type coins). I'd put them light years ahead of those other guys with the 2 page spreads week after week.

Bear

Generally speaking, the bigger the ad, the worse the dealer.

Legit and honorable dealers have a long list of satisfied customers

exceptions to this rule, they are probably rare indeed. Many of the dealers

and specialty dealers that frequent these Forums are the best. A PM to any long

time member, will get you a list of these honorable and knowledgable folks. These

dealers know what legitimate toning looks like and can identify truly superb coins

for their grade. It is easier to identify the really good dealers, then to specify the

really bad dealers. A collector really only needs a handful of the good dealers to fill

their coin needs.

BlindedByEgo

[qLast year I was in a large local coin shop here in MD and wanted to look at AU SLQ's. The dealer pulled out their box and said, "We don't have much in the AU range. Since we live near 3 of the biggest mail order dealers, they come in and buy most of our AU coins, dip 'em, and sell them as BU". >>



I was at my friends' shop where I saw the Sarosi POC Walker (not my coin, BTW) - and my friend was talking about having 2 standing requests from east coast dealers for all of the AU and scrubbed coins he can send. Sad.

cho10

<< <i>G&F coin Galleries, Ellesemere, bad experiences. Coin Depot, Paul Sims, less bad experiences. L&C so-so. Kind of ashamed that I went through 5 major ones that in some way or another showed the classic signs of being one of "those" coin dealers. (all their coins were PQ for the grade, we save on the grading fees and pass the savings on to you, big full 1 or 2 page ads, great coin to hold, etc) >>



I bought 5 Washington quarters for about $300 from Coast to Coast in 1999 and all 5 came back as "Cleaned" from ANACS about a year later. I learned my lesson and never bought from any of those big Ad folks again. I started buying from Bowers and Merena in 1990 and only stopped when they did away with retail sales around 2002 or 2003. An entirely different league of sellers. You don't have to clean and polish coins to please customers who don't want to spend. Just buy good stuff and sell good stuff. It pays off in the end.

I am surprised about a bad experience with Ellesmere. I have noticed that their pricing is at times higher than others but anything I have purchased from them has always been first rate. Maybe your purchase was tainted by a stroke of bad luck. Did you complain to them about not being satisfied with your purchase?

IRCWCoins

I bought some coins from Paul Sims, and returned most of them due to cleaning and other problems. I also bought a gold dollar from Jules Karp, that I returned because it was cleaned.

dorkkarl

the key is simply, don't buy coins sight-unseen.

PERIOD!

K S

CoinRaritiesOnline

<< <i>I was more mislead by articles praising Maurice Rosen as a guru instead of the ripoff he was. >>



I was surprised to read this. I have spoken to a number of Maurice Rosen's customers over the years ad found them to be "one of the good guys". Can you exand on your bad experience(s) with him? PM me if you wish.