Options
Chopmark True Views
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just completed a Set Review and Imaging of my chop marked Trade Dollar set. Trade Dollar Set
Two of my favorite coins:
Two of my favorite coins:
0
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
myCCset
SCORE!!!
Here is one of my favorites.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Why do you think the 1875 (P's) are so difficult to find chopmarked? In your case MS condition too.
<< <i>As always super nie coins.
Why do you think the 1875 (P's) are so difficult to find chopmarked? In your case MS condition too. >>
I think that just not many of them went to China in the first place. In the past, the scarcity may have been masked by the number of 1875-S coins with chops at the mintmark area - I've seen at least a dozen of those!
Very interesting. What is the market acceptance of those? I assume they are discounted well from chop mark free coins, but they may have a niche of their own.
They are very popular! Most coins are discounted, but less than you might think. And a few would bring a premium over a non chopped example [in certain grades].
1874 T$1 Chop Mark AU58 0 0
It has a pop of 0/0??
Just noticed that there are a couple of 0/0 and a couple 0/1
<< <i>Is this correct?
1874 T$1 Chop Mark AU58 0 0
It has a pop of 0/0??
Just noticed that there are a couple of 0/0 and a couple 0/1 >>
The pops will update in a week or so...
Your obverse on your 1876-S has the chopmark on the right side which means: female/woman The two left chopmarks have no specific meaning but are two different storekeeper's unique chopmarks.
The reverse chopmark could mean: "rice harvest yourself" . It doesn't really make sense, that chopmark. A slight variation to that reverse chopmark would have meant a "tax." But the striking is unclear. Perhaps a better look at that reverse would help!!!
Your 1874-CC obverse is a chopmark of a picture of a person. See the head, arms and legs. Similar to the hangman type picture we use in the hangman game. The reverse chopmark is trademark of some bank in China in the 19th century. It would be interesting to investigate if 1874 was the year of the "snake" as the right character on the reverse by itself, is the symbol of the snake!
Your 1877 obverse chopmark is a sideways depiction of the Great Wall of China. That is a typical logo of the Great wall of China used in the 19th century.
<< <i>tradedollarnut:
Your 1874-CC obverse is a chopmark of a picture of a person. See the head, arms and legs. Similar to the hangman type picture we use in the hangman game. The reverse chopmark is trademark of some bank in China in the 19th century. It would be interesting to investigate if 1874 was the year of the "snake" as the right character on the reverse by itself, is the symbol of the snake!
Your 1877 obverse chopmark is a sideways depiction of the Great Wall of China. That is a typical logo of the Great wall of China used in the 19th century. >>
Cool!
I have been studying chopmarks for quite some time and confer with several Chinese individuals to double check my analysis.
One of my favorite subject areas!!!
i would assume so as they all where shipped to china???????
are they rare chopped above a certain grade threshold?????????????????????
<< <i>what is the typical grade raNGE FOR DCHOPPED MARKED TRADES 1874 philly mint dollars??
are they rare chopped above a certain grade threshold????????????????????? >>
1874-P with chops are very scarce, but not extremely rare. I currently have 3 of the little buggers! The finest I've seen is my AU58, I also have an AU55 and AU53.
Explanation of Tradedollarnut's 1874 chopmark obverse:
The upper chopmark is a very common one. This is a bank chopmark to denote that this is the "front" or as we call it in numismatics, the "obverse" of the coin. The banks wanted to make it clear that this was the obverse of the coin and not the reverse since the Chinese (mostly in Hong Kong) did not understand the coin well at all and did not know the obverse from the reverse!
The lower chopmark appears to be a generalized "peace," peaceful," "quiet" slogan that was in use in the 19th century and early 20th century.
Explanation of Tradedollarnut's 1874 chopmark reverse:
The is the seal of the Hong Kong Bank (possibly Shanghai as well) named "Mao Sheng" back in the 19th century. There should be a bigger than this tick mark ` above the "o" of Mao and a non-wavy ~ above the "e" of Sheng. They are all the same punchmarks although some of them look different due to variations in punching surfaces such as higher relief, edge of coin or improper punching pressure.
================================================
Explanation of Tradedollarnut's 1873 chopmarks obverse:
Again you see the depiction of a person as shown on another Tradedollar below. It appears to be that of a little girl or a woman as it has the name of Wang Fang. Keep in mind that Fang is the first name and Wang is the last name as Chinese custom is to state last name first, and first name second. A fairly common name then and now.
Explanation of Tradedollarnut's 1873 chopmarks reverse:
Look side-ways (tilt your head to the left) and you will see a character of a tree. We are still investigating the specific meaning of this chopmark. It may be a store seal or identification. More on this later.
edit: pretty please with sugar on top!
I only saw two of them.
<< <i>All the rest?
I only saw two of them. >>
PM sent. Here's a neat one:
Each of the 12 years of the Chinese Zodiak calendar falls under a different animal sign. The signs are believed to determine the kind of personality and the circumstances of your life. The Chinese Zodiak was much more prevalent back in the 19th century and is possible that at least some of the various chopmarks are Chinese Zokiak animals relating to the year of the Chinese zodiak sign. Further investigation is needed.
1873 year of the rooster
1874 year of the dog
1875 year of the pig
1876 year of the rat
1877 year of the ox
1878 year of the tiger
1879 year of the rabbit
1880 year of the dragon
1881 year of the snake
1882 year of the horse
1883 year of the goat
1884 year of the monkey
1885 year of the rooster
The beginning of the Trade Dollar era in China was evidenced by a series of humiliating territorial defeats by the Chinese as foreign encroachment on her outlying territories became quite evident.
Example is the forced agreement with Japan respecting Japan's sovereignty over Formosa (now known as Taiwan) which was signed October 31, 1874.
Furthermore, China had been undergoing a period of entrenchment and was in the throes of "The Self-Strengthening Movement."
The Qing Dynasty officials belatedly recognized that they needed to retrench, strengthen and "modernize" China internally since the Opium War, forced treaties, and the mid-century mass riots weakened the Dynasty immensely.
To understand a little more about state of the China under the Qing dynasty the following is a short list of the internal and external revolts, battles and wars China endured the the 19th century up to 1885:
First Opium War; 1839-42
Taiping Rebellion; 1850-64
Nien Rebellion, China; 1853
Miao Uprising, China; 1855-72
Panthay Uprising, China; 1855-61
Second Opium War; 1856-60
Muslim Rebellion, China; 1863-77
Ili Provincial Rebellion; 1864
Tieutsin Massacre, China; 1870
Russian Occupation of Ili; 1871
Japanese Occupation, Ryukyu Islands; 1879
French Indochina War; 1882-83
Sino-Japanese Confrontation; 1882-5
Sino-French War; 1884-85
While, Russia, France, Japan and Great Britain were acquiring territorial concessions from China, the United States did not.
Why?
There are several theories.
My favorite theory is that the United States was too busy
(1) healing from the Civil War, both economically and physically
(2) going through a very trying Reconstruction Period in the South (US Military Occupation of the South; 1865-1877)
(3) consolidating the territories in the Western Continental North America
(4) focusing on the Kingdom of Hawaii for trade and farming and cattle land acquisition
(5) taking over the newly discovered Midway Islands on August 28, 1867 by the US Navy.
(6) purchasing the enormous territory of Alaska from Russia in 1867
(7) winning the arbitration against Great Britian to take over sole possession of the San Juan Islands bordering today's Washington State in 1872.
(8) dealing with other economic issues, etc.,
to worry about land acquisition in China's outlying territories. The US's response to the foreign intrusion into China was to come with with an international trade currency (the Trade dollar) and was hopeful that US economic interests would be best served by exporting such trade dollars into China at a low and reasonable cost. We now know that such efforts were not successful.
This appears to be a 'key" of some some sort. Possibly a key to a bank, or a key to a brothel house. By the way, had the middle of the teeth of the key crossed the "key" to the other side then since the 1970's or 1980's such character would have meant "abortion" since the 1970's or 1980's.
But we are talking about the meaning of these chopmarks in the late 19th or early 20th century .
Explanation of Tradedollarnut's 1875-S chopmark reverse:
This chopmark is a word describing some kind of "power" to be allowed to use such key. Possibly some sort of machinery or engine (such as a steam or mechanically powered engine) strong enough to operate the "key."
A thought comes to mind that this may be some kind of large government or bank vault that requires a large "key" and "power" to operate the key.
This is possibly just simple idle "fun" chopmarks, but this scenario is unlikely. It could be more of a harmless or a more sinister passing of some "secret password!" Interestingly enough, if you are a James Bond 007 fan, this would be a great way to pass on a hidden secret from one person to another?
Keep in mind that this was done over 130 years ago. This is a toughie. But the obverse AND reverse chopmarks are connested to each other in their meaning.