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Most Undervalued Rookie Card?

Which rookie cards do you rank as the most undervalued? I won a nicely centered 1961 PSA 8 Billy Williams RC today for around $80. He's a HOFer, a Cub and it's a popular set. As a benchmark, the Marichal RC in the same set usually sells for $125+. I always thought this card was a bargain.

Comments

  • GDM67GDM67 Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭✭
    I've had that same thought anoutthe '61 Williams.

    All things considered, I find the Jenkins rookie a little low, as well. (Maybe I should shut up until I get one...)
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think a lot of RCs are either undervalued or have dropped over time.

    It seems pitchers have been hit the hardest - including Koufax, Ryan e.g.

    Also, guys like Fingers and catchers like Fisk and Bench.

    I know there's plenty of 8s in many of these cards but I just don't get it.

    Wasn't there a large adjustment in all Topps cards a few years ago?

    I don't think any modern cards are bullet proof - not sure about prewar stuff.

    mike

    ps: these are just general thoughts - so don't hold me to them - not based on reports or stats - just an intuition.
    Mike
  • bri2327bri2327 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭
    Ive always considered the Steve Carlton rookie to be one of the most undervalued. A PSA 8 of one of the greatest pitchers ever goes for roughly $200. Sometimes a bit lower, sometimes a bit higher.

    Another I feel is undervalued is Frank Robinson. He is IMO one of the top 5 or 6 ever to play and a PSA 8 brings roughly $600.
    "The other teams could make trouble for us if they win."
    -- Yogi Berra

    image
  • TZAHLTZAHL Posts: 649 ✭✭
    Andre Dawson. Granted it is rather recent but I think not only an undervalued card but an underrated player.

    Anything after about 1980 is just too hard to say right now because there is so much that is probably still out there.

    Why is the Bonds Fleer RC valued so much more than the Topps? Was Topps print run that much higher?
    Trying to complete:
    2000 Bowman Chrome
    2002 Topps Heritage NAP
    2003 Topps Heritage chrome and seat relics
    2006 Topps Heritage refractors and relics
    2007 Topps Heritage refractors and relics
    2008 Topps Heritage refractors and relics
    2006 Topps Heritage and Topps Chrome football
  • 262Runner262Runner Posts: 606 ✭✭✭
    Jose Canseco.... No really

    OK, well actually, I think cards like HANK AARON 1954 Topps, 1951 Bowman MANTLE, 1964 Rose - not the RC but in my opinion the nicer card than the RC.

    Modern RC's are Ripken, Bonds, Mcgwire, Montana, Rice... all very nice cards for a reasonable price that should appreciate over time. All of these cards were much higher at one time. When the next generation of collectors is ready for these RC's, they will most certainly go up in value agian.

    262

    Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
    Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)

  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>Jose Canseco.... No really

    OK, well actually, I think cards like HANK AARON 1954 Topps, 1951 Bowman MANTLE, 1964 Rose - not the RC but in my opinion the nicer card than the RC.

    Modern RC's are Ripken, Bonds, Mcgwire, Montana, Rice... all very nice cards for a reasonable price that should appreciate over time. All of these cards were much higher at one time. When the next generation of collectors is ready for these RC's, they will most certainly go up in value agian.

    262 >>



    Has this ever happened? I'm not being a smart-ass, I'm just genuinely curious. Can anyone think of a RC that was 'hot' at one time, then started to lose value (and continued to lose value after the player's career ended), and then at some point recouped a fraction of those losses? In other words, has a RC ever gone 'up, down, and back up again'?



    Also, FWIW, I think the Jim Brown RC is undervalued, as is the Unitas and the Tarkenton. I don't think we'll see the prices of those two cards in a red colored font in the SMR for quite some time.
  • Don't know about Boopotts question???

    I think Reg Leach is undervalued, but that's who I collect so no complaints image

    image
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    OJ Simpson rookie cards are a classic example of a card that gets hot, gets cold, then gets hot again.

    OJ was scortching hot up untill the whole murder trial, which threw a bucket of ice on his cards.

    I've got a 1994 Tuff Stuff magazine which lists his rookie at $175 (with a plus sign).

    I bought a mint copy of his rookie in 2000 or 2001 for around $45.

    After getting it graded (PSA 9), I sold it for almost $700 earlier this year.


    Vintage football in general seems to have ignited, so OJ may just be riding the tidal wave.
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
  • 52 Mantle, the most popular card in history! this card in all psa grades is several thousands dollars under priced........
  • Boo,
    Happened a lot. Bonds and McGwire RCs are good examples because of their homerun chases. Not that they've held their value, but they certainly were hot in the late 80s, went down over time, then took a crazy spike (then went down again).

    Elway RCs went up while the Broncos were losing Super Bowls, then went down when they were rebuilding under Shanahan, then went back up to Marino levels after Terrell Davis and the O-line won the SB. Favre RCs could've been had for half as much 3 years ago, so that's another example.

    Karl Malone RCs were hot in the late 90s when Michael Jordan shoved Bryon Russell out of the way so he could get a clear shot to win the Championship, then went down, then spiked again in the last 2 years of his career. Tim Duncan RCs seem to go up and down every other year.


    My vote for most undervalued RC is any great basketball player who had a RC from 1972-1979, including Dr. J, Adrian Dantley, Alex English, George Gervin, Bernard King, Darryl Dawkins, David Thompson, Robert Parrish, Walter Davis, Moses Malone, etc... They can all be had for under $50 in PSA 8 condition (except Dr. J, who is a top 5 all-time player). For whatever reason, this era of cards has gotten the shaft.

    Lee
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> has a RC ever gone 'up, down, and back up again'? >>


    Boo

    I assume you're talking longer span vs. weeks/months with respect to the fluctuation.

    Glavine RCs were on the move in the early to mid 90s - then cooled and have rebounded a bit this year with his better performance and likelihood he will make it to the hall won't hurt.

    He performs well in the WS - so if the Mets make it? Hope he plays well. He and Maddux are favorites of mine from their Braves days.

    mike
    Mike
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    Stone,

    I was thinking about Tom Glavine myself. Great minds think alike?

    The 1988 Score Glossy is a rare and excellent rookie card of him. Awesome photo and all.

    The 1988 Fleer is the regular issue card and what most regard his best rookie card apart from the glossy version of the same issue.

    I think his score card is worth more than the fleer. What do you guys think is his best card. I think the score card had been overlooked.
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

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  • RedHeart54RedHeart54 Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭
    What about Willie McCovey? Is his PSA 8 rookie much above $250?
  • You can get PSA 10s of a lot of 80s rookies for under $10. Guys like Alomar, Biggio, Canseco, Sosa, Sheffield, Johnson and even some of Griffey's cards. I can't see any of these cards dropping any more. Sometimes some of these cards go for less than the cost of grading!

    1986 Canseco PSA 10

    1989 Sheffield PSA 10

    1989 Sosa PSA 10

    1989 Johnson PSA 10

    1988 Alomar PSA 10

    1989 Griffey PSA 10
  • Barry Larkin

    Granted, he was from the cursed 1987 sets, but his Fleer Glossy rookie is way undervalued. His lifetime numbers are better than average and he was a 12 time all star. He'll get in the Hall in the Sandberg fashion.
    Next MONTH? So he's saying that if he wins, the best-case scenario is that he'll be paying for it two weeks after the auction ends?

    Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12



    image


    Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
  • bri2327bri2327 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭
    One thing that has to be remembered when discussing whether any of these rookie cards are undervalued is not the players careers, but the following and collecting interest they have in them.

    Alfie mentioned several guys and showed examples of their rc's that went for under $10 each....Alomar, Sheffield, Sosa, Johnson, etc.

    Sure, these guys are HOF'ers, or at the very least borderline, but how much interest is there in collecting them ? If nobody wants to collect them then they arent undervalued, just unwanted.

    My reference point for this is Don Mattingly. He has a huge collecting base. A PSA 10 of his 1988 or 1989 cards ( which is nowhere near his rc) goes for more $$ than the rc's of Johnson, Sheffield, Sosa, and Alomar from the same years and issues.

    To me that shows a perfect example of why those guys arent really undervalued. There just isnt much interest in collecting them.
    "The other teams could make trouble for us if they win."
    -- Yogi Berra

    image
  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭
    1957 Haywood Sullivan and Wes Covington....or maybe Colavito
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2017
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al
  • ROCKDJRWROCKDJRW Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭
    A modern card I feel is a good price is the 1990 Leaf Frank Thomas. You can get a graded mint copy for around 20 dollars. It is a nice set and I think he has made himself a near lock for the hall of fame. Not a rare set but for the price I think it's a bargain.
    Collect Ozzie Guillen Cards
    Unique Chicago Cards
    Wrestling Cards
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭
    One of my childhood favorites image

    image
  • I would say Billy Williams as well. In typical catcher fashion, Gary Carter can be had for a very reasonable price.
    CARD IS TIGHT
  • frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What about Lance Berkman? I think he may be undervalued.

    Shane

  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i>What about Willie McCovey? Is his PSA 8 rookie much above $250? >>



    McCovey's got justice in the PSA market. SMR says his 1960 rookie in PSA 8 is $325, but the last three PSA 8s to pop up on Ebay sold for $342.88, $493.33, and $471.09. If I recall, the two $450+ ones had awesome centering, and the premium may have been added by folks hoping to resubmit it for a 9.
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Stone,

    I was thinking about Tom Glavine myself. Great minds think alike?

    The 1988 Score Glossy is a rare and excellent rookie card of him. Awesome photo and all.

    The 1988 Fleer is the regular issue card and what most regard his best rookie card apart from the glossy version of the same issue.

    I think his score card is worth more than the fleer. What do you guys think is his best card. I think the score card had been overlooked. >>


    DG
    I don't have the Score card - if you do, could you post a pic.

    I like the Fleer but think the Topps card is not very flattering.

    mike
    Mike
  • SheamasterSheamaster Posts: 542 ✭✭✭
    This card amazes me...1985 Topps Roger Clemens. PSA 8s only going for $20 and 9s going for $30-$38. People spend that much on a few new packs. This is a great rookie card of a sure HOFer and one of the greatest pitchers of all time. And, 85 Topps aren't exactly the easiest cards to get in these grades. I realize that the Fleer Update is his coveted rookie but for his first regular edition Topps card, come on. This would be a great card for a younger collector as well.
  • chaz43chaz43 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭
    Good question. The Jordan rookie of course. chaz
  • aro13aro13 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭
    Undervalued relative to their accomplishments:
    Baseball
    Billy Williams
    Bill Mazeroski
    Joe Morgan
    Steve Carlton
    Johnny Bench
    Rollie Fingers
    Basketball
    Oscar Robertson
    Elvin Hayes
    Wes Unseld
    Nate Thurmond
    Alex English
    Hockey
    Guy Lapointe
    Bill Barber
    Bob Gainey
    Steve Shutt
    Michel Goulet
    Peter Statsny

  • This pimp will have to say Fergie Jenkins.

    Pimp On....
    Nothing smoother than listening to Bob James and sipping on a glass of vintage Courvoisier! It's PIMPnificent!
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  • << <i>This card amazes me...1985 Topps Roger Clemens. PSA 8s only going for $20 and 9s going for $30-$38. People spend that much on a few new packs. This is a great rookie card of a sure HOFer and one of the greatest pitchers of all time. And, 85 Topps aren't exactly the easiest cards to get in these grades. I realize that the Fleer Update is his coveted rookie but for his first regular edition Topps card, come on. This would be a great card for a younger collector as well. >>



    Here is where I disagree and they are the same reasons the Jordan rookie will never appreciate drastically or even over a great deal of time:

    A.) Was the best of an era, nothing left to prove. Hall of Fame induction is just restating the obvious so no shift up in value there.

    B.) Huge production numbers and still TONS of wax left unopened.

    -Ian
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>Boo,
    Happened a lot. Bonds and McGwire RCs are good examples because of their homerun chases. Not that they've held their value, but they certainly were hot in the late 80s, went down over time, then took a crazy spike (then went down again).

    Elway RCs went up while the Broncos were losing Super Bowls, then went down when they were rebuilding under Shanahan, then went back up to Marino levels after Terrell Davis and the O-line won the SB. Favre RCs could've been had for half as much 3 years ago, so that's another example.

    Karl Malone RCs were hot in the late 90s when Michael Jordan shoved Bryon Russell out of the way so he could get a clear shot to win the Championship, then went down, then spiked again in the last 2 years of his career. Tim Duncan RCs seem to go up and down every other year.


    My vote for most undervalued RC is any great basketball player who had a RC from 1972-1979, including Dr. J, Adrian Dantley, Alex English, George Gervin, Bernard King, Darryl Dawkins, David Thompson, Robert Parrish, Walter Davis, Moses Malone, etc... They can all be had for under $50 in PSA 8 condition (except Dr. J, who is a top 5 all-time player). For whatever reason, this era of cards has gotten the shaft.

    Lee >>



    Hi Lee,

    I'm thinking specifically of card that went down in value after a player retired, and then went back up at some point later on.
  • aro13aro13 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭
    boopotts - Bruce Sutter might fit your criteria, and Rich Gossage next year.
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>boopotts - Bruce Sutter might fit your criteria, and Rich Gossage next year. >>



    I 'think' they would be examples of players whose cards more or less 'flatlined' throughout their careers (i.e., they didn't enjoy any large increases in value or suffer any dramatic decreases) and then spiked upwards after their playing days were over. I'm thinking specifically of players whose cards soared upwards when they played, then went down (and continued to go down) after they retired, and then, for whatever reason, went back up at some later point.


    I know this sounds a little ad hoc, but I bring it up in response to 262runner's assertion that RC's of McGwire and so forth should increase in the future. I see evidence of this kind of thinking from time to time on the boards, and it always strikes me as curious because these assetions don't, in my view, appear based on any kind of empiracle evidence.

    What I see- and again, I'm completely open to being proven wrong-- is that a player's cards may fluctuate up or down over the course of his career, but if they're on a downward trend when they retire then they don't ever come back up.
  • GDM67GDM67 Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't have the Score card - if you do, could you post a pic.

    I like the Fleer but think the Topps card is not very flattering.

    mike >>


    image

    No, that isn't mine (alas.)

    Agreed about the Topps. As much as I love Tom, he looks pretty goofy there. Fleer, Score and Donruss are the way to go.

    I've always been a bit surprised he didn't make an '87 update set. He had 6 decisions in that season.
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanx GD.

    Not a bad looking card.

    I think I'm partial to the Fleer.

    mike
    Mike
  • image
    image
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  • natetrooknatetrook Posts: 609 ✭✭✭
    I think the Yaz RC-1960 and the 1965 Joe Morgan RC are very undervalued.
    PSA-8 examples for $350 and $250 are the best deals around.

    Just my opinion.
    Nate
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    Boo, I see what you're saying. It's gonna take something quirky like OJ cutting his wife's head off or Bob Uecker doing those "I shoud be in the front row" commercials and starring on Mr. Belvedere for anybody's card to significantly go up after they're retired. Either that or the market going up in general (in which case everybody's cards would go up) or a specific era of cards going up. I think we've passed the time where any specific set or year will go up in value significantly and independently.

    Lee
  • In my opinion, the 1988 Topps CLOTH Tommy Glavine!!
  • gregmo32gregmo32 Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭
    Is Mattingly a good one? The most popular RC for a while in the 80's and early 90's that dropped significantly when his career was cut short, only to start a slow rise back up to its current levels.
    I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy!
    Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>Is Mattingly a good one? The most popular RC for a while in the 80's and early 90's that dropped significantly when his career was cut short, only to start a slow rise back up to its current levels. >>



    Did a raw NM- NM/MT copy used to cost less than it does now?
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>Boo, I see what you're saying. It's gonna take something quirky like OJ cutting his wife's head off or Bob Uecker doing those "I shoud be in the front row" commercials and starring on Mr. Belvedere for anybody's card to significantly go up after they're retired. Either that or the market going up in general (in which case everybody's cards would go up) or a specific era of cards going up. I think we've passed the time where any specific set or year will go up in value significantly and independently.

    Lee >>




    That's what I think too. If someone is looking to 'invest' in cards, then they should buy something that has a history of actually appreciating after the key RC's have retired.
  • Undervalued?

    1926 Who's Who In Sports Bobby Jones RC (SMR on a NM 7 is $700)

    - Nevermind the fact that it's an 80 year-old card and of one of a sports greatest all-time players, to get a near mint graded copy for less than what the latest unproven high school player's serial #'d refractor mirror black "I still haven't even played a professional game yet's" card goes for ungraded is a mistake the market will eventually rectify.

    1935 Sporting Celebrities Joe Louis RC (SMR on a NM 7 is $1500)

    - See above. While we're at it let's just throw in just about all the RC cards of the boxing greats from Ray Robinson, Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson to the great one Ali. You know how graded "vintage" football is has been doing well as-of-late? Yeah. Boxing and Golf are just starting to get going.

    1957 Topps Frank Robinson RC (SMR on a NM 7 is $250)

    - Really? With the $250? That's an abomination. Yes, I know SMR doesn't exactly have their finger on the pulse of the hobby or market but that's just shameful. Plus, it's a '57 Topps which has to be one of the nicest sets of the 50s (okay, a little subjective image)

    1981 Topps Joe Montana (SMR on a MT 9 is $275)

    - Two of these in PSA 9 recently went for under SMR on eBay. Are you kidding? The guy is an icon. In many circles when you say "Montana" people immediately think of Joe and not the state. Anytime you surpass one of the United States of America there ought to be a wing established in your respective HOF.

    Just my $0.02. If we're talking about investing than the goal is to get in low and sell at a peak. If the graded trend holds true than those boxing and golf cards have a ways to go before they start to plateau.

    Arthur
  • X-Could you get a list of the SMR on some more boxing "rookies". I'm interested in starting to collect these.
    Collecting;
    Mark Mulder rookies
    Chipper Jones rookies
    Orlando Cabrera rookies
    Lawrence Taylor
    Sam Huff
    Lavar Arrington
    NY Giants
    NY Yankees
    NJ Nets
    NJ Devils
    1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards

    Looking for Topps rookies as well.

    References:
    GregM13
    VintageJeff
  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Jose Canseco.... No really

    .. 1964 Rose - not the RC but in my opinion the nicer card than the RC.
    >>




    Much like the 69 ryan!


  • << <i>X-Could you get a list of the SMR on some more boxing "rookies". I'm interested in starting to collect these. >>



    Topps,

    This is just a brief search. Obviously, some of the rookie cards are harder to identify than others as there weren't mainstream releases back then and virtually everything is a tobacco card (foreign and domestic). Also, there isn't the mass amounts of market activity like there is with baseball, football, basketball, hocket etc. so the SMR is limited in what it lists. While there may be earlier issues of some of these boxers their inclusion in the SMR tends to lead me to believe that these are the more popular and widely traded issues. These will either be RCs or very early issues of the boxers.

    1910 T218 James Jeffries and Jack Johnson (SMR on NM 7 goes from $125 - $150)
    1922 Sporting Champions Jack Dempsey (SMR on NM 7 $300)*
    1933 Sport Kings Primo Carnera, Gene Tunney and Max Baer (SMR on a NM 7 $200/ea)
    1935 Sporting Celebrities Jimmy Braddock (SMR on a NM 7 $300)
    1971 Barratt Cassius Clay RC (SMR on a NM 7 $125)

    Probably the most popular issues are the 1948 Leaf and 1951 Ringside. If you're looking to get into it the best deal is probably a 1938 Churchman Boxing Personalities set. You can pick one up in decent condition on eBay for around $60 for 50 cards including Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, Max Baer, James Braddock and Max Schmeling. Can't beat that price for 70-year old set.

    * Not to be confused with the Jack Dempsey that appears in the 1887 Allen & Ginters set. Two different Dempseys.

    One thing to keep in mind is that much of this was prominant in England where card collecting has been a hobby for decades before it reached its popularity here in the States. That being said, it's not too hard to find copies of those early tobacco cards in decent shape for little money. Hope this helps.

    Arthur

  • Thank you VERY much. Looking at the prices(and, myself being such a boxing fan) I've just found a new type of card to get. I'll definetly have some of the ones you listed before the end of the year, and I have heard of the 48's and 51's. Thanks again for all the 411!
    Collecting;
    Mark Mulder rookies
    Chipper Jones rookies
    Orlando Cabrera rookies
    Lawrence Taylor
    Sam Huff
    Lavar Arrington
    NY Giants
    NY Yankees
    NJ Nets
    NJ Devils
    1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards

    Looking for Topps rookies as well.

    References:
    GregM13
    VintageJeff
  • My pleasure Topps. I've only recently discovered them myself so I have no doubt that there are others here who will be able to chime-in with some even better info. I've completely immersed myself in these though as I find it fascinating that they can be had for so little.

    Check out the MAIL CALL thread for a copy of that 1910 T218 Jack Johnson that I picked up for $20. Granted, it's probably a PSA 2 at best but you simply can't beat that price.

    Let me know anything you find out about too as I am still learning about them.

    Arthur
  • Lee,

    got to agree on the early 70's basketball RC's, and I'd include many of the earlier HOFer RC's of players who were among the league's first wave of stars. But did you really say daryll dawkins?? loved the chocolate thunder dunk but ... lol

    mike
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