Most Undervalued Rookie Card?
gemint
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Which rookie cards do you rank as the most undervalued? I won a nicely centered 1961 PSA 8 Billy Williams RC today for around $80. He's a HOFer, a Cub and it's a popular set. As a benchmark, the Marichal RC in the same set usually sells for $125+. I always thought this card was a bargain.
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All things considered, I find the Jenkins rookie a little low, as well. (Maybe I should shut up until I get one...)
It seems pitchers have been hit the hardest - including Koufax, Ryan e.g.
Also, guys like Fingers and catchers like Fisk and Bench.
I know there's plenty of 8s in many of these cards but I just don't get it.
Wasn't there a large adjustment in all Topps cards a few years ago?
I don't think any modern cards are bullet proof - not sure about prewar stuff.
mike
ps: these are just general thoughts - so don't hold me to them - not based on reports or stats - just an intuition.
Another I feel is undervalued is Frank Robinson. He is IMO one of the top 5 or 6 ever to play and a PSA 8 brings roughly $600.
-- Yogi Berra
Anything after about 1980 is just too hard to say right now because there is so much that is probably still out there.
Why is the Bonds Fleer RC valued so much more than the Topps? Was Topps print run that much higher?
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OK, well actually, I think cards like HANK AARON 1954 Topps, 1951 Bowman MANTLE, 1964 Rose - not the RC but in my opinion the nicer card than the RC.
Modern RC's are Ripken, Bonds, Mcgwire, Montana, Rice... all very nice cards for a reasonable price that should appreciate over time. All of these cards were much higher at one time. When the next generation of collectors is ready for these RC's, they will most certainly go up in value agian.
262
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
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<< <i>Jose Canseco.... No really
OK, well actually, I think cards like HANK AARON 1954 Topps, 1951 Bowman MANTLE, 1964 Rose - not the RC but in my opinion the nicer card than the RC.
Modern RC's are Ripken, Bonds, Mcgwire, Montana, Rice... all very nice cards for a reasonable price that should appreciate over time. All of these cards were much higher at one time. When the next generation of collectors is ready for these RC's, they will most certainly go up in value agian.
262 >>
Has this ever happened? I'm not being a smart-ass, I'm just genuinely curious. Can anyone think of a RC that was 'hot' at one time, then started to lose value (and continued to lose value after the player's career ended), and then at some point recouped a fraction of those losses? In other words, has a RC ever gone 'up, down, and back up again'?
Also, FWIW, I think the Jim Brown RC is undervalued, as is the Unitas and the Tarkenton. I don't think we'll see the prices of those two cards in a red colored font in the SMR for quite some time.
I think Reg Leach is undervalued, but that's who I collect so no complaints
OJ was scortching hot up untill the whole murder trial, which threw a bucket of ice on his cards.
I've got a 1994 Tuff Stuff magazine which lists his rookie at $175 (with a plus sign).
I bought a mint copy of his rookie in 2000 or 2001 for around $45.
After getting it graded (PSA 9), I sold it for almost $700 earlier this year.
Vintage football in general seems to have ignited, so OJ may just be riding the tidal wave.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Happened a lot. Bonds and McGwire RCs are good examples because of their homerun chases. Not that they've held their value, but they certainly were hot in the late 80s, went down over time, then took a crazy spike (then went down again).
Elway RCs went up while the Broncos were losing Super Bowls, then went down when they were rebuilding under Shanahan, then went back up to Marino levels after Terrell Davis and the O-line won the SB. Favre RCs could've been had for half as much 3 years ago, so that's another example.
Karl Malone RCs were hot in the late 90s when Michael Jordan shoved Bryon Russell out of the way so he could get a clear shot to win the Championship, then went down, then spiked again in the last 2 years of his career. Tim Duncan RCs seem to go up and down every other year.
My vote for most undervalued RC is any great basketball player who had a RC from 1972-1979, including Dr. J, Adrian Dantley, Alex English, George Gervin, Bernard King, Darryl Dawkins, David Thompson, Robert Parrish, Walter Davis, Moses Malone, etc... They can all be had for under $50 in PSA 8 condition (except Dr. J, who is a top 5 all-time player). For whatever reason, this era of cards has gotten the shaft.
Lee
<< <i> has a RC ever gone 'up, down, and back up again'? >>
Boo
I assume you're talking longer span vs. weeks/months with respect to the fluctuation.
Glavine RCs were on the move in the early to mid 90s - then cooled and have rebounded a bit this year with his better performance and likelihood he will make it to the hall won't hurt.
He performs well in the WS - so if the Mets make it? Hope he plays well. He and Maddux are favorites of mine from their Braves days.
mike
I was thinking about Tom Glavine myself. Great minds think alike?
The 1988 Score Glossy is a rare and excellent rookie card of him. Awesome photo and all.
The 1988 Fleer is the regular issue card and what most regard his best rookie card apart from the glossy version of the same issue.
I think his score card is worth more than the fleer. What do you guys think is his best card. I think the score card had been overlooked.
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Granted, he was from the cursed 1987 sets, but his Fleer Glossy rookie is way undervalued. His lifetime numbers are better than average and he was a 12 time all star. He'll get in the Hall in the Sandberg fashion.
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Alfie mentioned several guys and showed examples of their rc's that went for under $10 each....Alomar, Sheffield, Sosa, Johnson, etc.
Sure, these guys are HOF'ers, or at the very least borderline, but how much interest is there in collecting them ? If nobody wants to collect them then they arent undervalued, just unwanted.
My reference point for this is Don Mattingly. He has a huge collecting base. A PSA 10 of his 1988 or 1989 cards ( which is nowhere near his rc) goes for more $$ than the rc's of Johnson, Sheffield, Sosa, and Alomar from the same years and issues.
To me that shows a perfect example of why those guys arent really undervalued. There just isnt much interest in collecting them.
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<< <i>What about Willie McCovey? Is his PSA 8 rookie much above $250? >>
McCovey's got justice in the PSA market. SMR says his 1960 rookie in PSA 8 is $325, but the last three PSA 8s to pop up on Ebay sold for $342.88, $493.33, and $471.09. If I recall, the two $450+ ones had awesome centering, and the premium may have been added by folks hoping to resubmit it for a 9.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>Stone,
I was thinking about Tom Glavine myself. Great minds think alike?
The 1988 Score Glossy is a rare and excellent rookie card of him. Awesome photo and all.
The 1988 Fleer is the regular issue card and what most regard his best rookie card apart from the glossy version of the same issue.
I think his score card is worth more than the fleer. What do you guys think is his best card. I think the score card had been overlooked. >>
DG
I don't have the Score card - if you do, could you post a pic.
I like the Fleer but think the Topps card is not very flattering.
mike
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<< <i>This card amazes me...1985 Topps Roger Clemens. PSA 8s only going for $20 and 9s going for $30-$38. People spend that much on a few new packs. This is a great rookie card of a sure HOFer and one of the greatest pitchers of all time. And, 85 Topps aren't exactly the easiest cards to get in these grades. I realize that the Fleer Update is his coveted rookie but for his first regular edition Topps card, come on. This would be a great card for a younger collector as well. >>
Here is where I disagree and they are the same reasons the Jordan rookie will never appreciate drastically or even over a great deal of time:
A.) Was the best of an era, nothing left to prove. Hall of Fame induction is just restating the obvious so no shift up in value there.
B.) Huge production numbers and still TONS of wax left unopened.
-Ian
<< <i>Boo,
Happened a lot. Bonds and McGwire RCs are good examples because of their homerun chases. Not that they've held their value, but they certainly were hot in the late 80s, went down over time, then took a crazy spike (then went down again).
Elway RCs went up while the Broncos were losing Super Bowls, then went down when they were rebuilding under Shanahan, then went back up to Marino levels after Terrell Davis and the O-line won the SB. Favre RCs could've been had for half as much 3 years ago, so that's another example.
Karl Malone RCs were hot in the late 90s when Michael Jordan shoved Bryon Russell out of the way so he could get a clear shot to win the Championship, then went down, then spiked again in the last 2 years of his career. Tim Duncan RCs seem to go up and down every other year.
My vote for most undervalued RC is any great basketball player who had a RC from 1972-1979, including Dr. J, Adrian Dantley, Alex English, George Gervin, Bernard King, Darryl Dawkins, David Thompson, Robert Parrish, Walter Davis, Moses Malone, etc... They can all be had for under $50 in PSA 8 condition (except Dr. J, who is a top 5 all-time player). For whatever reason, this era of cards has gotten the shaft.
Lee >>
Hi Lee,
I'm thinking specifically of card that went down in value after a player retired, and then went back up at some point later on.
<< <i>boopotts - Bruce Sutter might fit your criteria, and Rich Gossage next year. >>
I 'think' they would be examples of players whose cards more or less 'flatlined' throughout their careers (i.e., they didn't enjoy any large increases in value or suffer any dramatic decreases) and then spiked upwards after their playing days were over. I'm thinking specifically of players whose cards soared upwards when they played, then went down (and continued to go down) after they retired, and then, for whatever reason, went back up at some later point.
I know this sounds a little ad hoc, but I bring it up in response to 262runner's assertion that RC's of McGwire and so forth should increase in the future. I see evidence of this kind of thinking from time to time on the boards, and it always strikes me as curious because these assetions don't, in my view, appear based on any kind of empiracle evidence.
What I see- and again, I'm completely open to being proven wrong-- is that a player's cards may fluctuate up or down over the course of his career, but if they're on a downward trend when they retire then they don't ever come back up.
<< <i>I don't have the Score card - if you do, could you post a pic.
I like the Fleer but think the Topps card is not very flattering.
mike >>
No, that isn't mine (alas.)
Agreed about the Topps. As much as I love Tom, he looks pretty goofy there. Fleer, Score and Donruss are the way to go.
I've always been a bit surprised he didn't make an '87 update set. He had 6 decisions in that season.
Not a bad looking card.
I think I'm partial to the Fleer.
mike
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PSA-8 examples for $350 and $250 are the best deals around.
Just my opinion.
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<< <i>Is Mattingly a good one? The most popular RC for a while in the 80's and early 90's that dropped significantly when his career was cut short, only to start a slow rise back up to its current levels. >>
Did a raw NM- NM/MT copy used to cost less than it does now?
<< <i>Boo, I see what you're saying. It's gonna take something quirky like OJ cutting his wife's head off or Bob Uecker doing those "I shoud be in the front row" commercials and starring on Mr. Belvedere for anybody's card to significantly go up after they're retired. Either that or the market going up in general (in which case everybody's cards would go up) or a specific era of cards going up. I think we've passed the time where any specific set or year will go up in value significantly and independently.
Lee >>
That's what I think too. If someone is looking to 'invest' in cards, then they should buy something that has a history of actually appreciating after the key RC's have retired.
1926 Who's Who In Sports Bobby Jones RC (SMR on a NM 7 is $700)
- Nevermind the fact that it's an 80 year-old card and of one of a sports greatest all-time players, to get a near mint graded copy for less than what the latest unproven high school player's serial #'d refractor mirror black "I still haven't even played a professional game yet's" card goes for ungraded is a mistake the market will eventually rectify.
1935 Sporting Celebrities Joe Louis RC (SMR on a NM 7 is $1500)
- See above. While we're at it let's just throw in just about all the RC cards of the boxing greats from Ray Robinson, Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson to the great one Ali. You know how graded "vintage" football is has been doing well as-of-late? Yeah. Boxing and Golf are just starting to get going.
1957 Topps Frank Robinson RC (SMR on a NM 7 is $250)
- Really? With the $250? That's an abomination. Yes, I know SMR doesn't exactly have their finger on the pulse of the hobby or market but that's just shameful. Plus, it's a '57 Topps which has to be one of the nicest sets of the 50s (okay, a little subjective )
1981 Topps Joe Montana (SMR on a MT 9 is $275)
- Two of these in PSA 9 recently went for under SMR on eBay. Are you kidding? The guy is an icon. In many circles when you say "Montana" people immediately think of Joe and not the state. Anytime you surpass one of the United States of America there ought to be a wing established in your respective HOF.
Just my $0.02. If we're talking about investing than the goal is to get in low and sell at a peak. If the graded trend holds true than those boxing and golf cards have a ways to go before they start to plateau.
Arthur
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
<< <i>Jose Canseco.... No really
.. 1964 Rose - not the RC but in my opinion the nicer card than the RC.
>>
Much like the 69 ryan!
<< <i>X-Could you get a list of the SMR on some more boxing "rookies". I'm interested in starting to collect these. >>
Topps,
This is just a brief search. Obviously, some of the rookie cards are harder to identify than others as there weren't mainstream releases back then and virtually everything is a tobacco card (foreign and domestic). Also, there isn't the mass amounts of market activity like there is with baseball, football, basketball, hocket etc. so the SMR is limited in what it lists. While there may be earlier issues of some of these boxers their inclusion in the SMR tends to lead me to believe that these are the more popular and widely traded issues. These will either be RCs or very early issues of the boxers.
1910 T218 James Jeffries and Jack Johnson (SMR on NM 7 goes from $125 - $150)
1922 Sporting Champions Jack Dempsey (SMR on NM 7 $300)*
1933 Sport Kings Primo Carnera, Gene Tunney and Max Baer (SMR on a NM 7 $200/ea)
1935 Sporting Celebrities Jimmy Braddock (SMR on a NM 7 $300)
1971 Barratt Cassius Clay RC (SMR on a NM 7 $125)
Probably the most popular issues are the 1948 Leaf and 1951 Ringside. If you're looking to get into it the best deal is probably a 1938 Churchman Boxing Personalities set. You can pick one up in decent condition on eBay for around $60 for 50 cards including Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, Max Baer, James Braddock and Max Schmeling. Can't beat that price for 70-year old set.
* Not to be confused with the Jack Dempsey that appears in the 1887 Allen & Ginters set. Two different Dempseys.
One thing to keep in mind is that much of this was prominant in England where card collecting has been a hobby for decades before it reached its popularity here in the States. That being said, it's not too hard to find copies of those early tobacco cards in decent shape for little money. Hope this helps.
Arthur
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
Check out the MAIL CALL thread for a copy of that 1910 T218 Jack Johnson that I picked up for $20. Granted, it's probably a PSA 2 at best but you simply can't beat that price.
Let me know anything you find out about too as I am still learning about them.
Arthur
got to agree on the early 70's basketball RC's, and I'd include many of the earlier HOFer RC's of players who were among the league's first wave of stars. But did you really say daryll dawkins?? loved the chocolate thunder dunk but ... lol
mike